Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:02:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #116 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: guru, massguru, tuhon (jay de leon) 2. RE: guru, massguru, tuhon (Felipe Jocano) 3. Re: Firearms (iPat) 4. Fiesta (Eskrima-FMA) 5. Re: Firearms (Ray) 6. Title, title, and such. (gatpuno@aol.com) 7. The use of the title "Mas"... (John Montes) 8. Re: Firearms (Michael Gallagher) 9. Re: The use of the title "Mas"... (Mike Casto) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:56:39 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: RE: [Eskrima] guru, massguru, tuhon To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I remember reading somewhere that Tuhon is a derivative of the word tuan, a Malayan or Indonesia word which is term of respect meaning sir or mister, but may also mean master or lord. Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com "james jr. sy" wrote: Agree with that, Guro is teacher and is applicable to both male and female genders. The term is not specific to martial arts. Guro is also used for academic teachers here in the Philippines. Although I've come across a Gura in the net which is supposedly for a female teacher. People who had read of it in the Philippines, me included, just laughed. There's no such thing as a gura in the Filipino language. The Tagalog word mas indeed expresses degree of, as in mas gwapo (more handsome). It's more for a comparison of two things. However it would be grammatically inappropriate in Filipino to use mas with guro when used as a title. Mas guro, literally then would be "more teacher." But then Myron's guess is by far the nearest possible, if there is indeed something called massaguru. In the Philippines, there's no massaguru. Guru is different from Guro. Guru I believe is Sanskrit and refers to somebody who is enlightened or someone knowledgeable or with wisdom. Not just sure. I believe that guro and guru became interchangeable when they arrived in the US, especially with martial artists who practice FMA with other arts like Indoensian Silat. Just a theory. Tujon. Here, in Negros Occidental as well as in Panay and Cebu (places in the Visayas), there is no such title as Tujon. The only group that uses the title here is Pekiti Tirsia. JAMES "Wieneke, Myron" wrote: Literal translation Guro - teacher Masguro - this is a weird one, don't believe it's a real work, looks like some sort of weird conjungation. Anyway, when you put mas in front of an adjective, you increase the level of what its describing (ie superlative adjective). Example, marunong (smart or knowledgeable), masmarunong (smarter or more knowledgeable), pinakamarunong (smartest or most knowledgeable). I'm guessing it some sort of extension of this to describe a better teacher. Tuhon - not really sure, outside of FMA, I vaguely remember hearing it before but can't put my finger on the exact meaning. Regards, Myron -----Original Message----- From: rterry@idiom.com [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:50 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] guru, massguru, tuhon > Can anyone tell me the difference between guru,massguru and tuhon. Guro/Guru = I like titles Masguro = I love titles Tuhon = Lordy, how I love titles :) > and how can you tell if the title is real or self promotion? Very difficult. > I have found in the karate field that most people calling themselves > master are usually not. Often very true. > Also any body have any information on massguru greg alland. Nothing good to say.. GrandMaster/Sensei/Guro/Datu Ray Terry :) rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ============================================================================== Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.credit-suisse.com/legal/en/disclaimer_email_ib.html ============================================================================== _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:40:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: RE: [Eskrima] guru, massguru, tuhon To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net That title is used by a known American silat teacher. Mas in Bahasa Indonesia is something like mister; guru/o is also teacher. Mas guro - mr. teacher?!? Better ask someone who knows Bahasa if this is correct. Get that someone to tell us if this guy's usage is correct. Mass guro: a teacher of mass? A massive teacher? A collective term for teacher (like a mass noun)? My mom's teacher (ma's guro)? I'd better stop.....:-) Bot > > "james jr. sy" wrote: > Agree with that, Guro is teacher and is applicable > to both male and female genders. The term is not > specific to martial arts. Guro is also used for > academic teachers here in the Philippines. > > Although I've come across a Gura in the net which > is supposedly for a female teacher. People who had > read of it in the Philippines, me included, just > laughed. There's no such thing as a gura in the > Filipino language. > > The Tagalog word mas indeed expresses degree of, > as in mas gwapo (more handsome). It's more for a > comparison of two things. However it would be > grammatically inappropriate in Filipino to use mas > with guro when used as a title. Mas guro, literally > then would be "more teacher." But then Myron's > guess is by far the nearest possible, if there is > indeed something called massaguru. In the > Philippines, there's no massaguru. > > Guru is different from Guro. Guru I believe is > Sanskrit and refers to somebody who is enlightened > or someone knowledgeable or with wisdom. Not just > sure. I believe that guro and guru became > interchangeable when they arrived in the US, > especially with martial artists who practice FMA > with other arts like Indoensian Silat. Just a > theory. > > Tujon. Here, in Negros Occidental as well as in > Panay and Cebu (places in the Visayas), there is no > such title as Tujon. The only group that uses the > title here is Pekiti Tirsia. > > JAMES > > "Wieneke, Myron" wrote: > Literal translation > > Guro - teacher > Masguro - this is a weird one, don't believe it's a > real work, looks like some sort of weird > conjungation. Anyway, when you put mas in front of > an adjective, you increase the level of what its > describing (ie superlative adjective). Example, > marunong (smart or knowledgeable), masmarunong > (smarter or more knowledgeable), pinakamarunong > (smartest or most knowledgeable). I'm guessing it > some sort of extension of this to describe a better > teacher. > Tuhon - not really sure, outside of FMA, I vaguely > remember hearing it before but can't put my finger > on the exact meaning. > > Regards, > > Myron > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rterry@idiom.com [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:50 PM > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] guru, massguru, tuhon > > > Can anyone tell me the difference between > guru,massguru and tuhon. > > Guro/Guru = I like titles > Masguro = I love titles > Tuhon = Lordy, how I love titles > > :) > > > and how can you tell if the title is real or self > promotion? > > Very difficult. > > > I have found in the karate field that most people > calling themselves > > master are usually not. > > Often very true. > > > Also any body have any information on massguru > greg alland. > > Nothing good to say.. > > GrandMaster/Sensei/Guro/Datu Ray Terry :) > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or > Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > ============================================================================== > Please access the attached hyperlink for an > important electronic communications disclaimer: > > http://www.credit-suisse.com/legal/en/disclaimer_email_ib.html > ============================================================================== > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > > > DAMAG-INC > [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] > http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com > Houston, Texas > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:17:46 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Firearms Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Same type of argument used by those against speeding restriction on motorways. However i was suprised to hear the actual financial costs of an accident let alone the emotional costs on the rescuers or families. Here in the UK i have heard a cost of a crash is 1.5m GBP(http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southeast/series7/cars.shtml). What the cost of a gun incident is i dont know but while you expect the government to pay them its naiive to suggest that they wont therefore legislate in order to reduce those costs. Whilst the far too frequent topic of guns in the US sadly raises its head and demises there is a factor that constantly gets forgotten. I have read before about Self Defence classes being described as 'Being Nice to the Victims' in the understanding that whilst you can give people tools but it doesn't mean that they can use them. I have stood on a nightclub door in the knowledge that a gang were on their way to 'do' us. I have been in a pub knowing that there was a gang ready to attack. In these circumstances I have watched 'tough' men wilt. I have watched people make bad decisions when under stress and I have watched 'black belts' sh*t themselves when real fighting happened. So when the argument becomes that everyone should be armed I can't see consistency. It won't happen like that. People will resort to quick fire out of panic. Weapons will be taking off those who freeze and potentially used against them. Kids will shoot themselves imitating there parents who might have been distracted by the telephone leaving a loaded firearm accessible for one fateful second. We have the freedom to own a cell phone and talk to our family or conduct business but how many times are you annoyed at the inconsideration of the business man loudly speaking next to you on a train, the call coming in during the film in a cinema. If people using a cell phone are iresponsible to think they might change a charachteristic because its a gun might be a dose of whitewash to far. With this in mind the answer is not on either extreme – its as usual in the middle, where as members of a society, compromise breeds good behaviour. Yes there needs to be responsibility and yes there needs to be an element of control but there needs to be the freedom. AND IN THE WORDS OF Eddie Izzard: Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun). On 4/25/07, Pierre Honeyman wrote: > On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 14:20 +0100, Gilmour, Julian wrote: > > > Violent crime is an immensely complicated issue and it seems from the > > points above that it is likely to be influenced by a great many > > educational and socio-economic issues rather than simply 'got a gun' or > > 'not got a gun'. > > What gives a government the right to prohibit possession of personal > property with no data to justify the prohibition enacted? > > Pierre -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:11:29 -0700 From: Eskrima-FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Fiesta Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Fiestas Filipinas 2007: Many Islands, One People Ventura, Calif Asian Journal THE Filipino-American Council of Ventura County invites all to come to their Annual Philippine Independence Day Celebration, "Many Islands, One People", an event to commemorate the Philippines' Independence from Spain for over 100 years. This Fiestas Filipinas festival will take place on June 9 and 10, 2007 at the Oxnard Performing Arts Center, 800 Hobson Way in Oxnard. The event will include a variety of experiences from film screenings, art exhibitions, live entertainment, traditional dances, youth activities, cultural displays, martial arts exhibits, a car and bike show, various food vendors, an Adobo Cook-off contest and a formal dinner dance. The fiesta kicks off on Saturday, June 9th, with an exciting presentation of independent films and an art exhibition. The exhibition will include paintings and photographic expressions of Filipino culture, spirituality, and politics by internationally known and local artists. The film screening will feature a variety of inspiring pieces by independent film producers. Highlighting Day 1 of the weekend's festivities is "Dessa: Asia's Divette" also known as the Asian Powerhouse. Dessa gained international acclaim and recognition as Asia's divette when she won the 1993 Federation International Def Organisation de Festival (FIDOF) held in Russia. Also gracing the stage is Bay Area's four-part R&B female singing group, IMMIJ and Oxnard's very own Lew Soratorio Jr. aka L.E.W.I.S. Included in the Fiesta schedule is an entire day of cultural celebration including Filipino Martial Arts demonstration conducted by Mt. San Antonio College Filipino Martial Arts group who will demonstrate Eskrima, Arnis, Kali and kickboxing. The Fil-Am Camarillo Association will host a "Shall We Dance?" competition ala "Dancing with the Stars" for young and adult couples. Salin Lahi, Zambales Youth Dancers, Angie's Angels, Undeclared, and Emanon will perform a wide array of dances from cultural, modern hip-hop, to belly-dancing. Author, James Daos, of "Ants on the Rainbow", an adventure story about a colony of surfing ants in search of the perfect wave - will be having a story reading and book signing for children of all ages. A car exhibition by High End Performance of Ventura, CA will also take place in the main parking lot displaying several modified show class import vehicles. The day ends with an evening of a formal Filipiniana dinner dance, hosted by Q-104.7's Fred Rock, with a live band- Music Masters, and also to award the winning pageant couple for Mr. & Ms. Philippine Independence 2007. Day 2 of the fiesta kicks off with an Ecumenical Service at 10:00am in the Oxnard Room. The 2nd Annual Adobo Cook-off will take place in the patio areas while a Harley Davidson bike exhibition by the Pinoy Harley Riders of Southern California will be displayed at OPAC's main parking lot. ICAC will host their 3rd Annual Filipino-American Idol singing contest at 11:00am, leading to another special guest performance by American Idol's Season 3 - Top 12 Finalist, Camile Velasco. For the duration of the event, over several vendors will be located throughout the facility lobby, terrace, main halls, and gallery spaces including: Pinoy Appeal Clothing Unlimited, Michael's Arts and Crafts, Philippine Expressions Bookstore, United States Army, Visayan Association, Pain Free USA, Ava Sari Sari, Ilocano Association, Java Joe's Expresso, Tri-Counties Regional Center Senior Program, Lexus of Oxnard, Arbonne, Dip N Dots, Kapitbahay News, Meesh Meesh Designs and more. To close this year's celebration, an annual Philippine Flag raising will take place at 12 noon on Tuesday, June 12th at the Oxnard City Hall, 305 W. 3rd Street, Oxnard. For more information on Fiestas Filipinas or to purchase tickets for the Dinner/Dance & Pageant, please contact: Charleen Morla - Chairperson (805) 236-1309 or Tony Grey (805) 415-2958, email charleen.morla@gmail.com or visit www.myspace.com/fiestasfilipinas. --__--__-- Message: 5 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Firearms To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:09:36 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > So when the argument becomes that everyone should be armed I can't see > consistency. ... I don't think we've seen that suggestion, and least not in this thread. Shall issue CCW laws are different from 'everyone should be armed'. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:14:36 -0400 From: gatpuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Title, title, and such. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Title. tilte, title, I was not going to touch this topic, but it came to me so hard not to. Again, I would love to express my opinion for one thing I am so sure about. I believed is nice to have a discussion in such things, so we can clear up the glossy meaning of your reccent title (claim so called name) but to dis-respect the title of someone really earn it, then its different story. Let me put it this way I really dont care how many title and degree you put on your name before you as long you can really carry that load to your shoulder. Meaning if you claimed as such then you act as such. The only problem is, many people are allowing themselves to say so much thing and dis-respect other whom using such title. One question is, did you ever ffoguth this guy, and you are so not agree that he is not what he want to be called? Then that different that attacking and disresfecting others titles. Why we dont go forward and start asking this person if they would love to play fight and see if you can measure his skill, Or yourself dont even klnow what level of skill you need to measure? I am so soppurtive to all GM, Master, Fighters, that doing the right things for themselves test their skills, not to your student test it to others. Tournament is the thrid level "testing Ground", sparring without really muct rule to follow is the second level and first level is the real deat situation. Now, who ever have a guts to you all and have a problem with such title then go back to the old "Eskrima Tradition" Challenge that person then if he back out then you know that his title is not mean anything. Today he is Grandmaster tomorrow he will be called Grand Kamote.(Sweet Potato Farmer). Then practitioner that used Filipino word as title, I suggest refer your title to our Dictionary, there is a lot availbale Filipino, Visayan, Bicolano, Hiligaynon, Ilokano etc./English Dictionary. So you would not be attack or even laugh of of this "Internet Fighter" I will call it Enter Kamote. About me I am simple man, I leave their title alone, but if they did something to get me goin, their better be ready I ain't backing out for a fight, in any way, you want fight by word, then go ahead I will used my English Kamote (Filipino English) against anyone used their so called good English to me. Ttile, let's analize what is the meaning of such title instead, rather than give them a negative comment. Grandmaster or not Grandmaster so what? That what he want, and then let it be, we have no right to controll that, you are not even sure who you are. Okay to all concern you are now my business and I will accept and le me pay the consequences. Guro is is title of the people teach in the Philippines, that why a lot of us used this title, or sometimes we used Maestro/Maestra adopted word from Spanish word means teacher. Mas-Guro is self creation Filipino word, but is easy to understand the meaning maybe he want o say higher Teacher of advance Teacher, Tuhon is another word, so leave them alone I suggest and go back to what we love the most to talk about technical, history and achievements of each member. Experiences that some of us never experienced it to our whole life, that the reason whay I joined this digest, to learn from all of you, but if you all throwing this and that, this is not good. As a member I think also have to voice to let everyone know to leave the title alone. If anyone have a problem with that then start to yourself, see who you are who you really are, are you really a Eskrimadoir, Are you really Arnisador, Are you really a Kalista? Arnis, Eskrimador, Kalista is a gentleman, dont fight attacking people title, the real Eskrimador fight Face to face, not afraid to face the real opponent the agressor. Now we are being just a bunch of bad-mouth Eskrimador, let see it in your skill not how pretty you can "Trash" someone title. Here is the original meassage: Can anyone tell me the difference between guru,massguru and tuhon. This few of the answer them. Guro/Guru = I like titles Masguro = I love titles Tuhon = Lordy, how I love titles Nothing good to say.. What in the hell is this crap? "mas-guru"? Which seems to me, is a load of garbage made up by someone who's been doing too much acid in the 70s. That's what I think. What everyone is thinking, is a valid question it deserve a valid answer, if you know. If you have nothing good to say, I suggest dont say anything. this show me what kind of people are you. Now I would like to move this issue to more best of you do, Eskrima Arnis. If you do have a problem with that then keep it to yourself and then once you see that person tell him,and live like Ekrimador. To someone asked this question the answer is Guro/Guru-Teacher, Massguro(created Filipino word for MoreTeacher or Better Teacher), Tuhon is Teacher too, it is accepted term by mojority of Eskrimadores around the world now. like Kali term. Sige na, I will post something on the Guna dnKnife later, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:38:57 -0700 (PDT) From: John Montes To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The use of the title "Mas"... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All, I had a party at my house a few years back and was introduced to a gentleman by the name of Chester Melonius- a Dutch-Indo Pentjak Silat Manyang Instructor. I visited Chester, who also happens to be a Kali player, during one of his classes at a local fitness center. I happened to notice that the kids were calling him "Mas Chester." I'm guessing that the title is Indonesian (?) and may mean "Master," as in "Master Teacher" i.e. Mas Guru/Mas Guro. So it may be a multi-stylist (Silat/FMA, not terribly uncommon) mixing titles. It immediately made sense to me, but then again "Gura" makes sense to me too so, go figure.. :) hehehe fyi Gura Michelle is a very sweet person and instructor of Kamatuuran Kali. Eskrima for life, ~John __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:50:21 -0400 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Michael Gallagher Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Firearms Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net At 09:20 AM 4/24/2007, you wrote: >..... Any chance we can try and keep to sticks and knives and empty hand? Well, all of the above can be used to kill people without a gun. And anyone who has ever seen even a few minutes of "Surviving Edged Weapons" will never poo-poo how lethal a knife can be because you "have to get close to the other person," as some anti-gunners claim. I am not sure how to continue the segway from there. Anybody? :o :) --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:49:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The use of the title "Mas"... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Actually, as it was explained to me, "mas" is a common honorific of respect - often used to address a peer but sometimes used to address an instructor. And "pak" a common method of addressing an instructor is short for "bapak" which means "father." But "pak" is also used in every day language as a respectful form of address to an elder. So, probably the closest translations (as far as usage, not direct words) would be: "pak" = "sir" "mas" = "bro" (or some other informal equivalent) While both of these are sometimes used as forms of address for an instructor, neither actually means "instructor." They're just general forms of respectful address. The word "guru" literally means "instructor." Something like "mas/guro" would, I would think, be an Indonesian/Filipino cross-over indication. But I could be wrong on that assumption. Some more senior instructors are referred to as "maha guru" which implies a "master instructor." This would be equivalent to something like "mataas na guro" in Filipino. And then you occasionally hear the term "pendekar" which would be synonymous to "grandmaster" in the way most of the American MA community uses the term. However, as I understand it, when you look at the root words for "pendekar" it actually translates as something more akin to "wise one." And, also as I've been told, it usually implies a spiritual aspect, too, and not just a martial arts aspect. But I don't know how widely that holds true. I've heard a lot of debate on the use of the title "pendekar" - and it runs along lines similar to the debates around the use of the title "datu" in FMA. Mike Casto ----- Original Message ---- From: John Montes To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 12:38:57 PM Subject: [Eskrima] The use of the title "Mas"... Hi All, I had a party at my house a few years back and was introduced to a gentleman by the name of Chester Melonius- a Dutch-Indo Pentjak Silat Manyang Instructor. I visited Chester, who also happens to be a Kali player, during one of his classes at a local fitness center. I happened to notice that the kids were calling him "Mas Chester." I'm guessing that the title is Indonesian (?) and may mean "Master," as in "Master Teacher" i.e. Mas Guru/Mas Guro. So it may be a multi-stylist (Silat/FMA, not terribly uncommon) mixing titles. It immediately made sense to me, but then again "Gura" makes sense to me too so, go figure.. :) hehehe fyi Gura Michelle is a very sweet person and instructor of Kamatuuran Kali. Eskrima for life, ~John __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest