Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:58:34 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #121 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: guru, massguru, tuhon (james jr. sy) 2. Re: Firearms (Mr. Lepp) 3. Re: guru, massguru, tuhon (iPat) 4. Tuhon Bill McGrath seminar (Gilmour, Julian) 5. More on the UK firearms ban... (Ollie Batts) 6. More on the UK firearms ban 2 (Ollie Batts) 7. Armed Citizens (Ollie Batts) 8. How to fight multiple opponents (Nathan Miller) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:25:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] guru, massguru, tuhon To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Correct, FMA was not yet called Arnis before the Spaniards set foot in the Philippines. And neither was it called Kali. This issue is discussed in the book Cebuano Escrima: Beyond the Myth by Dr. Ned R. Nepangue and Celestino Macachor. It did a good job in discussing the historical and technical evolution of the FMA, including its foreign influences, myths, and misconceptions. It is available online thropugh Xlibris. iPat wrote: which is the FMA isnt it? Arnis wasnt arnis before the spanish got there was it? On 4/26/07, james jr. sy wrote: > If that is indeed the origin of the word, then we can say that the title tujon is not a term indigenous to the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) but a product of the continued evolution and mixing of languages. > > jay de leon wrote: I remember reading somewhere that Tuhon is a derivative of the word tuan, > a Malayan or Indonesia word which is term of respect meaning sir or mister, -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:58:56 -0500 From: "Mr. Lepp" Organization: Mr. lepp's jujitsu Mixed Martial Arts School To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Firearms Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The best point that has been brought up in this discussion. I teach Jujitsu, MMA and Weapons usage. The techniques use of force range from benign to deadly. The most important thing is that we teach the students Verbal Jujitsu so that they will deescalate the conflict. While they are learning to that we are also raising their adrenal response to threat. This helps the student to be better prepared if conflict cannot be avoided. Mr. Lonnie Bryan Lepp www.mrlepp.com www.drak.net Djinji Brown wrote: > ... > Its not about the weapons.. Its about the society we live in , and the problem solving skills we teach our children. > Conflict Resolution!!!!!!! > "THE PROBLEM SOLVING SKILLS WE TEACH OUR CHILDREN!!!!!.. is what we must be talking about..!!!!!! > All these disscussions about the law, we have yet to take responsiblity for the law we live by in our homes. > Violence is taught, and learned...I believe this. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:15:46 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] guru, massguru, tuhon Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net yet we have already established through certain recounts that in one dialect terms were used that werent used by others. To say something didnt exist is somewhat perilous in the FMA! On 4/27/07, james jr. sy wrote: > Correct, FMA was not yet called Arnis before the Spaniards set foot in the Philippines. And neither was it called Kali. > > This issue is discussed in the book Cebuano Escrima: Beyond the Myth by Dr. Ned R. Nepangue and Celestino Macachor. It did a good job in discussing the historical and technical evolution of the FMA, including its foreign influences, myths, and misconceptions. It is available online thropugh Xlibris. -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:06:51 +0100 From: "Gilmour, Julian" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Tuhon Bill McGrath seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all Jay de Leon asked for details or comments about the tuhon Bill McGrath seminar. Firstly, he said 'tuhon' means 'chief' or 'chief instructor', so that's where he stands on the subject. Secondly, he demonstrated an empty hand vs empty hand gunting technique that was new to me that I liked a lot: (Apologies if this doesn't sound clear) When using a gunting against a right cross I would normally outside parry with my left hand while pointing the mid knuckles of my right hand (palm facing up) to pass under their extended right arm and strike the bicep or tricep. I would often follow this with a horizontal hammer fist with my right to the head area, maybe on to puta kepala (sp?). I presume Inosanto family people will understand this. Tuhon McGrath did his gunting strike against the oncoming fist, with his left hand guiding it and his right hand travelling forwards towards (and against) the fist, thus (in theory) dislocating the opponent's oncoming right thumb. The right hand continued immediately to effect a spearhand to the opponent's right carotid area. Still with his right hand he then inside parried any potential follow-up strike from the opponent's left, and then slapped to the left hand side of the opponent's head with his right palm, while foot-trapping both his feet and then pushing the chest. Thus leading to a dislocated thumb, slap injuries to eardrum/brain etc and two broken ankles. If any of this is clear, I'll be very happy :-) Thirdly, we are in the UK which pretty much means no 'conventional' weapons, so he had a 'tactical' torch on a chain and a one-inch diameter, sharpened pencil in his pocket. There were about 20 martial artists in the sports hall, and totally by chance, we had an unexpected one-and-a-half second power cut. He was in the middle of the room and surrounded when the lights went out, and when they came on again, 1 or two seconds later, he had his back tight to the wall and the pencil out and in his right hand while he was checking all around. I bet he'd already been there for about a second! LOL Strike from the void? Difficult against Tuhon McGrath Julian ****************************** This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail and any attachment from your system. 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Registered office as above. ****************************** --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:00:37 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] More on the UK firearms ban... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thought some of you might be interested to read this letter written by Kate Hoey, Member of Parliament for Vauxhall, which appeared in the Telegraph newspaper on 8th February 2007: Time to bite the bullet on gun ban By Kate Hoey Dear Home Secretary, I know you have much on your mind at the moment dealing with crises such as bulging prisons and escaped drug traffickers. It may seem strange then that I am writing to you about a sporting issue ­ one which you alone have the power to help with, that is if your officials can find the papers which are probably buried under a pile of other pressing matters. Like me you will remember vividly the horror we all felt back in 1996 when 16 children and a teacher were shot dead at a school in Dunblane by a deranged man with a gun. Politicians reacted in haste to the call for 'something to be done'. A partial ban on hand guns was implemented immediately, followed by a total ban as one of the first measures taken by the new Labour Government in 1997. As I am sure your officials will tell you, there was absolutely no evidence to suggest that by banning legally-licensed cartridge pistols and closing legally-operating shooting clubs, we would all sleep safer in our beds. Yet today there are more hand guns on our streets than 10 years ago. What the ban did do was to make perfectly decent, dedicated law-abiding citizens of England, Wales and Scotland (Northern Ireland was excluded from the legislation) give up their sport. At a stroke our competitive pistol shooters were forced to go abroad to train for Olympic and world competitions. Overnight thousands of men and women had to hand in their pistols, with no thanks for the role they had played, over several decades, in helping the police with the licensing system. You will recall that we hosted the Commonwealth Games in 2002 in Manchester and that the ban was lifted partially for overseas competitors and UK nationals to import their pistols temporarily, in the UK case from Switzerland. The Games finished and the ban was re-introduced. When London won the bid for the 2012 Olympics, the British Olympic Association and the governing bodies of shooting put forward a case to your department for legislative exemptions which would allow our pistol shooters and a large squad of sporting hopefuls to be granted dispensation under Section Five of the Act so that they could retain their sporting pistols at home without ammunition in order to do their daily 'dry training'. Registered regional shooting clubs would also be designated as a place for weapons to be used. It looked like a way forward could be agreed. The sports minister, Richard Caborn, assured the BOA that he had written to the Home Office giving his support for exemptions. An Early Day Motion in the Commons attracted significant support from all sides of the house and the public have, I believe, realised that target pistol shooters were victims of rough justice in the 1997 legislation. An e-petition on the No 10 website for the restoration of target pistol shooting under suitable controls is gaining signatures every day. However, somewhere in your department the paper trail has stopped and the silence is deafening. Time is running out. We now have some of the best talent in recent years, particularly in the women's events where Julia Lydall and Georgina Geikie have done so well with air pistols. But they are at a serious disadvantage when it comes to the Olympic discipline of cartridge pistols. Would you like to meet them? They are both former modern pentathletes, level headed, hugely talented and excellent role models for young people. They could tell you of how disadvantaged they are competing against athletes from other countries who can train every day (unlike the three days a month they do, and then only in Switzerland). Surely, Home Secretary, you must see that implying that these young people are a risk to the public is ludicrous? Time is also running out to train the range officials, adjudicators and administrators needed for 2012. Presumably you know that shooting is an important Olympic discipline, second only to athletics in terms of numbers of countries affiliated to the International Shooting Sport Federation and we will have to provide at least 40 highly trained officials to administer the event. Many of those involved in 2002 will have retired by 2012. The solution is simple. Everyone in sport is signed up to the suggested solution of using Section Five dispensations. Please, could you forget prisons and sex offenders for an hour or so this week and make a Commons-sense decision to help our target shooters? There would be no loss of control over the ownership of pistols, no danger to public safety and no need for primary legislation. Target shooters are reliable, trustworthy and an asset to their communities ­ the kind of people your department want to support. Don't you feel ashamed that most democracies have more faith in their citizens to participate in one of the oldest Olympic sports than we do? Over to you Home Secretary ­ we need a decision urgently. Yours sincerely, Kate Hoey Labour MP for Vauxhall I suggest that you don't hold your breath! Pugil --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:07:03 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] More on the UK firearms ban 2 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Further to my earlier post, these are the arseholes us normal people with brains and common-sense are up against: Ban replica guns The Mayor of London believes that there is ample evidence which shows that imitation firearms and air weapons are performing an important role in serious crime. The increasing availability of such 'life-like' weapons on the open market has led to their increased use in street robbery and violent confrontations. The range of people affected is much wider than just the victims themselves and includes not only the families, but also police officers and whole communities who live in fear of violence, intimidation of the actual or threatened use of these dangerous weapons. The continuing manufacture, importation and sale of replica firearms, that can be modified to fire bullets, costs lives and therefore represents a clear and present danger to both the public and the police. Banning replica weapons will reduce the overall presence of firearms in our communities and can assist the police in tackling those offenders who are armed with intent to cause fear and harm. The Mayor wants recognition in London that the role of the firearm is changing and possession of firearms, replica or not, has become a cultural issue that must be changed through education and backed up by legislation to enforce the message of eliminating gun crime. In addition to a total ban on replica guns, the Mayor is also calling for a total ban on air weapons, stating that hundreds of incidents involving air weapons occur each year resulting in minor injuries or disfigurement. These incidents can be traumatic for the victims and their families and also place a burden on the NHS. Mayor of London City Hall The Queen's Walk More London London SE1 2AA --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:27:01 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Armed Citizens Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In reply to your points Ray, I'll simply post this article. Paragraph six seems to agree with your point of view: >From The Times March 3, 2007 Victorian gun crime - the shocking story Graham Stewart "Illegally held guns are flooding Britain¹s inner cities and a spate of fatal shootings in London has highlighted gun culture¹s allure to disaffected youth. This comes despite the best efforts of the law and its enforcers to restrict the supply of guns. Yet, any man, woman or street urchin could own a gun in Victorian Britain ‹ at least until 1870 when a licence fee was charged if they wanted to carry the weapon outside their home. And, surprisingly, there was very little gun crime. "The right to own firearms was enshrined in the 1689 Bill of Rights (the Americans had to get their ideas from somewhere) and as late as 1900 the Prime Minister, Lord Salisbury, was happy to declare how much he would ³laud the day when there was a rifle in every cottage in England². "There were a quarter of a million registered firearms in private hands before the First World War and the true figure was almost certainly far higher. In those years the average number of crimes involving firearms in London was 45. In 2006 it was 3,350. "True, in 1903 a Pistols Act restricted small handgun ownership to those who were not ³drunken or insane². This did not prove over-restrictive. When in 1909 unarmed police gave chase to a couple of gun-toting Latvian anarchist desperados in Tottenham, there was no shortage of passers-by who lent their pistols to the coppers. "Proper restriction was not introduced until after the First World War. The Firearms Act 1920 decreed that gun ownership required a certificate that the local chief of police could withhold from anyone he deemed ³unfitted to be trusted with a firearm². However, the accompanying guidelines made clear ³a good reason for having a revolver² included ³if a person lives in a solitary house, where protection against thieves and burglars is essential². "The legislation had less to do with armed robbery and more to do with the Lloyd George Government¹s fear that a combination of disaffected soldiers returning from the Western Front, the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution in Russia and the surge in trade union membership might be harbingers of trouble. It was thus better if firearms were monopolised by the State and the more responsible classes. "During the 1930s, the law was amended to raise the age in which firearms could be acquired from 14 to 17. Both before and after the Second World War, gun crime remained remarkably low. London recorded only 14 instances in 1951, by which time the guidelines had been changed to discourage owning firearms as an anti-burglar deterrent. "In recent years, life in Britain¹s cities has got far more dangerous. Since there are not more guns around, perhaps the real problem is cultural?" Graham Stewart Some comments received relating to the above article: Disarming good citizens while being unable to disarm criminals always leads to more crime. Every historical example I've seen in the last 34 years I've owned handguns proves to me that the more guns in good hands, the lower the crime rate. How can anyone believe that disarming good people could ever reduce crime? Steve Devereux, Hull, E Yorks Yet again this proves the London-centric attitude of our politicians. Because they have a problem with gun crime in London (and other cities) the population of the whole country has unecessary legislation imposed on it. Give us back our sport. Peter Molyneux, Eastbourne, UK You mean to say that disarming the law abiding population of the United Kingdom has NOT stopped criminals from breaking the law? Madness! Andy Moloney, Reading, England When will the gun control advocates and bleeding heart liberals face the facts that gun control simply does not work? Never has and never will. I just can't understand why they insist on being so mind-numbingly ignorant of all the evidence. Criminals do not obey the law and will not hand over their weapons - that's why they're called criminals! Gun control laws only affect the law-abiding! In fact, they make guns even more attractive to criminals. What is more alarming to me though is the amount of complete and utter faith the British public have put in their government and 'unarmed' police force to protect them. Put the politics aside, admit it doesn't work and allow people to protect themselves and their property once again!! Nick (ex-pat), San Antonio, Texas Increasing the supply of prey leads to an increase in the population of predators. What's difficult about that? Randy, Bedford, Texas Perhaps the real problem is that the criminals know the victims are going to be unarmed these days. Francis Turner, Nr Cannes, France Of course, the real problem is cultural. In the rural American state of New Hampshire there are essentially no gun laws. When I lived there as a boy I had the usual youthful arsenal: a handgun, a rimfire rifle, a shotgun and I was saving money to buy a center-fire rifle. Gun ownership is part of the culture of the state who¹s motto is, ³Live free or die!². Yet the crime rate was very low then and still is. I now live in urban Chicago. Handgun ownership is forbidden and long gun ownership is restricted so there are far fewer legally owned guns. The crime rate is 50 times that of New Hampshire. Ross Firestone, Chicago, Illinois, USA Pugil "True. Now consider why that is. In your country and in many others disarming the citizenry occurred because the government was afraid of 'the people', not because the government was looking to reduce crime. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:00:33 -0500 From: "Nathan Miller" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] How to fight multiple opponents Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Something like this: http://www.flixya.com/turkish-man-fights-mob --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest