Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 02:58:31 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #132 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: When Filipino become Filipino? (Daniel Arola) 2. Re: GM Angel/GM Lazo (Ray) 3. Re: GM Angel/GM Lazo (Daniel Arola) 4. Philippine Aikido, Dodie Abadilla (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #131-15 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 5. Crafty Kali (Ray) 6. PG Edgar Sulite speaks on "Kali" (Marc Denny) 7. Re: GM Felisicimo Dizon/GM Fred Lazo (Ray) 8. Re: Prof. Adria Jocano, Dodie, Mirafuente (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #130 - 11 msgs (Felipe Jocano) 9. Re: Prof. Felipe P. Jocano Jr. - Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #130 (Felipe Jocano) 10. Of dead horses and senior moments (Felipe Jocano) 11. Defining arnis as what??? (Felipe Jocano) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:47:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] When Filipino become Filipino? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net What about "Taglish"(Tagalog mixed w/ English)? I took the 'Pilipino' classes in school when I lived there from grade 4 to 1st(freshman) year in High school, and my Ilocano was still way easier to speak than Tagalog since I lived in the Ilocos provinces. The accent for English is just about the same throughout the rest of the archpelago. Felipe Jocano wrote: GatPuno; I tried it out on my students a few years ago. It came out por many op dem: Pipti pive hundred and pipty pive feso (por some of dem dat is). :-) I grew up as Ingglisero for many years and only got my Tagalog straightened out in high school. Years later, my ingglis is istill inpluenced by my Tagalog. Seriously, there is a movement going on to modify written Tagalog to reflect current spoken versions, especially imported words. Thus, F is now being taught as F, same for Z, Th, etc. Bot --- GatPuno@aol.com wrote: Also since most Filipino "F"sound like > "P" and "P" it like sound > "F" or vise versa. One way to find out if they > really born in the Philippines > listen to them ask them to read this "Fifty five > hundreds and fifty five > Peso". Then tell me how they read the words "F" > become "P"..then you know that > he > is really bornin the Philippines. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net DAMAG-INC [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com Houston, Texas --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] GM Angel/GM Lazo To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:58:30 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > With all do respect, I am not implying he's Style is bad, nor saying > anything to dis-respect anyone. And I'm sure that no one took it that way. Dizon's Eskrima and Cabales' Serrada are very different, not at all alike. Why? We can only guess. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 14:23:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] GM Angel/GM Lazo To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: Dizon's Eskrima and Cabales' Serrada are very different, not at all alike. Why? We can only guess. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com -Maybe it won't be any surprise that both styles looked different due to personal/individual preference. Each individual favored their own approach to make ittheir own. Hell, I would have done the same. Daniel DAMAG-INC [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com Houston, Texas --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 19:00:15 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Philippine Aikido, Dodie Abadilla (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #131-15 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dan, Dodie's last name is Abadilla. He used to lend me his book on shorinryu karate that was wiritten by Robert Matson. Thanks for giving my kungfu teacher's last name. I have to acknowledge him in my books from this time on. (I have two books scheduled for publication in 2008. I will make sure his name is on it.) My kungfu teacher used to ask me to get thrown - on concrete. Those were the days. Best regards. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/3/2007 5:00:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Bot, I was reading your post address to PG Mat and asked him if he remembers a certain "Dodie". Do you remember if the guy's last name is "Abadilla"? I used to train at Philippine Aikido Sports Association under Ambrosio Gavileno in the '70s with PG Mat and Dodie Abadilla. GM Lanada was also teaching at the same place at the time. I also remember the time when PG Mat and GM Lanada was taking pictures for the "Arnis Lanada Book". I also train with Dodie at Philippine Chinese Lengui in Caloocan, under Benito Ku. By the way, your teacher GM Elmer Ybanez was my fraternity brother. Anyways, I enjoy reading your post and keep up the good work in propagating our beloved art. Dan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 5 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 17:43:50 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [Eskrima] Crafty Kali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Crafty barked; :) > c) in my very humble opinion, what we think of as Kali is influenced by > Silat i.e. that there are some differences between kali and eskrima/arnis. Then should we assume that Floro Villabrille's well known quote is incorrect? "Kali. Eskrima. Same same." Or just that his Kali was not real Kali? Ray "Stiring up the pot" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 17:44:47 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] PG Edgar Sulite speaks on "Kali" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Here's PG Edgar Sulite on the terms "Kali, Eskrima and Arnis" from his first video "Lameco at the Vortex"-- which I produced/directed around 1992. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAvfPQW47wY Yip! Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] GM Felisicimo Dizon/GM Fred Lazo To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 17:52:06 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I already mentioned this few years back, in regards of GM Felicisimo > Dizon. GM Dizon and GM Antonio "Tatang" Ilustrisimo is on the list of > Eskrimador that participated in "Doce Pares of Laguna" this took place > in Mount Banahaw on the late 50's early 60's. Good info, sir. Thanks again. The fights you mentioned were in the late 50s or early 60s??? Dizon was born in 1896, so he would have been up there a bit (even older than I am right now :). Did many of the participants in these events continue fighting well into their 60s and beyond? I realize that it is possible. Cacoy beat any and all comers in 1979, in Cebu and in Manila, when he would have been 60 years old. But I figure he is not the typical eskrimador. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:00:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Prof. Adria Jocano, Dodie, Mirafuente (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #130 - 11 msgs To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi PG Mat, Well, Prof. Adria Jocano is my mother :-) She retired a few years ago as Dean of the College of Science at Adamson. When I asked her about you she said she remembered you as well :-) I will pass on your greetings to Dodie when (if) I see him again. Dodie now lives in Quezon City, in the Fairview area. I met him more than ten years ago (!) when I started training under Master Benito Ku - yes the same guy! BTW, Master Ku also was asking about you when I met him a few months ago. He also said to say hi to you. Dodie is now my classmate in silat under Guro H. Yasser Tanadjalan. It's a pity about Yambao's book - would have wanted to read your interpretation. Resepectfully, Bot --- Pananandta@aol.com wrote: > Bot, > > But of course I know Prof. Adria Jocano. Adria > always had a nice smile for > everybody and very intelligent. Please say hello to > her for me. I was about to > ask if you know her. > > I always take a taxi going home from aikido practice > between 9:00-10:00 PM > from near the Quiapo church. Since Dodie lived on my > way, I always invited him > to ride with me. Dodie's kungfu is exceptional. If > you happen to bump into > Dodie again, please ask him for the spelling of the > last name of my kungfu > teacher Benito Kuh? (Coo? Co??). I neglected to ask. > I studied the snake form of > kungfu for a brief period cut short when I > immigrated to the US. > > Re: Yambao's book. CFW Enterprises sent a > photographer (back in the late > 90s) to New York to take photos for 3 of my > manuscripts. We shot more than 1,000 > photos. CFW was supposed to publish the 3 books but > never did. Something > went very wrong between me, Mark Wiley (who was at > the time one of CFW's > editors) and CFW Enterprises. One of the 3 books was > my interpretation of Yambao's > book. > > Best regards to all. > > APMarinas Sr. > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:07:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Prof. Felipe P. Jocano Jr. - Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #130 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Daniel! man, oh man, small worlds and interconnections, yes Dodie's last name is Abadilla. Yes, he too was an aikidoka. And yes, I trained with Master Benito Ku for a while when he opened a class in UP Diliman. That's when I met Dodie :-) You were a brod of Maestro Elmer? It's great to meet people who knew and were connected to Maestro in some way. I really miss him, not a day goes by when I don't think of him and the days when I was learning from him. Thanks for your kind comments, although I still have a long way to go, imperfect and bumbling as my efforts are. Bot --- Daniel Rutano wrote: > Bot, > > I was reading your post address to PG Mat and asked > him if he remembers a > certain "Dodie". Do you remember if the guy's last > name is "Abadilla"? I > used to train at Philippine Aikido Sports > Association under Ambrosio > Gavileno in the '70s with PG Mat and Dodie Abadilla. > GM Lanada was also > teaching at the same place at the time. I also > remember the time when PG > Mat and GM Lanada was taking pictures for the "Arnis > Lanada Book". I also > train with Dodie at Philippine Chinese Lengui in > Caloocan, under Benito > Ku. > > By the way, your teacher GM Elmer Ybanez was my > fraternity brother. > > Anyways, I enjoy reading your post and keep up the > good work in > propagating our beloved art. > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:22:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Of dead horses and senior moments Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi James: Yesterday, I posted a reply to your message in which you raised six points about kali, etc. When I reviewed the past messages, lo and behold you had said the same thing and even quoted me. I said to myself, why did I forget I saw this? Senior moments, senior moments...:-) Bot --- "james jr. sy" wrote: > However, no extant pre-modern era records, including > by the Spaniards, as well as incidental discoveries > on archaeology or other sciences do mention or > indicate that Kali was indeed the term for FMA in > ancient Philippines. The Spaniards are very > meticulous record keepers and during the discovery > of the Philippines was a superpower (the Spaniards > were some of the best Renaissance fencers during > those times). So it would make sense that if Kali > was indeed existed during those times, we will see > more of it in the Spanish documents. > > Even the Chinese, who themselves are very > meticulous chroniclers, have not mentioned any Kali > although they wrote that early Filipinos were indeed > superb warriors. > > I agree with you prof on the misuse of the term as > the mother art. This is another point of debate. > We are told that Kali comes from a particular > dialect. If so how can it then be the mother art of > Escrima, Arnis, Estokada of Cebu, Negros, Panay, and > Laguna? > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:31:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Defining arnis as what??? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, With regards to our ongoing discusssion of definitions of kali, I looked up the definition of arnis in a well-known Tagalog-English dictionary by Fr. Leo James English (I kid you not, that is his name) of the Redemptorists. Here is what I found (as best as I can reconstruct) Arnis: n. (from Spanish arnes, meaning trappings or gear) 1. Fencing, swordplay (Syn. eskrima, estokada) 2. Philippine Karate. Definition no. 2!!! I don't know where the good father got this, but... Bot __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest