Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 02:58:33 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #133 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Yambao's book and interpretation (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #131 - 15 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 2. Re: How to fight multiple opponents (iPat) 3. Re: When Filipino become Filipino? (Felipe Jocano) 4. FMA Digest Special Issue (HILOT) (gatpuno@aol.com) 5. old sources, filipino sources, etc. KALI (maurice gatdula) 6. Re: Yambao's book and interpretation (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #131 - 15 msgs) (jay de leon) 7. Differences in Dizon's Escriam and Angel's Serrada - what do you mean? (Guro Dennis Servaes) 8. Re: Differences in Dizon's Escriam and Angel's Serrada - what do (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 00:39:21 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Yambao's book and interpretation (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #131 - 15 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jay, Thanks for your interest in my work. There is some story behind the book. Read on. Back in 1991, I received a call from Rey (Galang) asking if I would be willing to talk to a former student of mine, Robert Torres. I said, “OK.” Rey put him on. I was asked if I would be interested in doing a videotape for them on Placido Yambao’s book. From what was said on the phone, “You (meaning me) are the only one who can interpret the movements and the spirit of the techniques.” I didn’t say much and asked them to call me back in 2 weeks. I wanted to make sure that the call was not a joke. They called back at the appointed time but I declined to do the tape. Based on the request, I surmised that at the time Rey had not put enough time on the study of the book. Otherwise, they would not have asked me to do the videotape. CFW Enterprises, despite what went wrong (between me, Mark, and CFW) wanted to publish my book on the interpretation of Yambao’s work. But I didn't like the terms they offered. So, I declined the offer. I have shot the photos in the book 3 times over and I am going to re-shoot it again. But this time, only my son, Mt Jr., and I will be in the book. You see Jay, I have not given up on the book. You might still get to review it :-) Thanks again. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/3/2007 5:00:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: To PG Mat, Bot, kapatid Abon and interested academicians, on Yambao's book and interpretation thereof. PG Mat, really regrettable that your interpretation never got to see the light of day or print; maybe it is not too late. FWIW, my friend Rey Galang did get to publish one. See my article wherein you guys also figure prominently: ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:10:12 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] How to fight multiple opponents Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It seems to be that the older man and the mr white came from the black crv which looks to be involved in a collision with the silver car. At one point you see the man in black talk to mr white who is dismissive. The man who clams mr black at the end can also be seen keeping the older man away in the earlier discussion. Later mr black is surrounded by the angry older man and mr white with others there which obviously panicks him into the strike. Three are certainly trying to fight with mr black who effectively keeps himself on his feet and picks his shots very well. I wouldnt say the 'older' man was very old to merit the comment and he could easily be armed. My own reading is that mr black was cuttting in, caused an incident that enraged the occupants of the black honda. After initial discussion mr black struck out when he panicked by the swarm of bodies around him. To him it may have appeared he was now being hemmed in On 5/3/07, Marc Macyoung > > He threw the first punch and it wasn't a "mob" it was three guys, one of > whom was an older man. -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 05:14:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] When Filipino become Filipino? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Taglish has a number of versions. The most commonly known (and parodied) is the use of what would otherwise be Tagalog syntax with English words. Examples: EEEE!!!Ipisssss!!! Make it apak naman, o! (EEE!!! Cockroach!!!! Step on it!!!) It's the use of the words make, like, kinda, etc. that give away the Taglish speaker. Believe it or not, Taglish has recently been the subject of analysis by some linguists here. Other examples: Ay, I have to go na, my driver's making me potpot na, e! (for the non-Pinoys here, potpot is the onomatopoeic sound for a car horn) In Tagalog: Ay, kailangan ko nang umalis, pinopotpotan na ako. If the example makes you smile, tell me why - off the list :-) I had a Taglishera (translation: Taglish-speaking student, female) in one of my classes. We were talking about languages and she said that when she spoke English, people often asked her if she had come from the US, when in fact she hadn't. As it turned out, another one of my students was an American young lady from New York, so I asked her, "Does she sound like she's from the States?" She said, and I quote, "H**l no, when we speak English, we eat our words, know what I mean? She speaks it like she's reading it out loud. Filipinos speak their English like they're reading it out loud." Which made me think very carefully about how I speak - and write - my English. I sometimes think that I write English like writing a book - no I am not writing a book just writing like one. In other words, the consciousness of it being a second language is there. Most taglish speakers pay careful attention to the pronunciation of the f and p, as well as b and v, t, th and d, s and z, i, e and a, etc. These happen to be the sounds which we tend to mix often. --- Daniel Arola wrote: > What about "Taglish"(Tagalog mixed w/ English)? > I took the 'Pilipino' classes in school when I lived > there from grade 4 to 1st(freshman) year in High > school, and my Ilocano was still way easier to speak > than Tagalog since I lived in the Ilocos provinces. > The accent for English is just about the same > throughout the rest of the archpelago. > Just for fun - remember this tongue twister? Minekaniko ni Monico ang makina ng Minica ni Monica. All Pinoys - say it out loud without laughing and spluttering for as long as you can! :-) Hints for non-Pinoys - o and a are short, with a slight stop at the end. Try it with Pinoy friends present ;-0 have fun! Bot __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 10:14:13 -0400 From: gatpuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] FMA Digest Special Issue (HILOT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I just want to let everyone knows, that Guro Steven Dowd (Filipino Martial Arts Digest) an online magazines has Speciall Issue about "Hilot" featured Hilot is Virgil Apostol, and yours truly. I recieved my courtesy copy few days ago, but only today I able to read it. it was done nicely and lot info. So dont forget to get your copy. If I dont answer few issue, pardon me for now, i will try to get to it and answer them later whenever I got a chance. Got to work for now.. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:15:39 -0700 (PDT) From: maurice gatdula To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] old sources, filipino sources, etc. KALI Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net i was watching a television show about the history of religions, and they talked about old "scrolls" and books they found in greece, italy and some other places. people are now challengins the bible and religion because what is said there, is different to what people been believing for years. now you have two people, the ones who believe the new "old books", and they will never believe anything else, and the ones who believe the old "old books" which was the religion already in place for years. a scholar said, you have to be careful not to believe every document you finded is true, just because it is 1,000 years old. but you also have to be careful you dont believe everything this scholar said, just because he is historian. and you have to be careful you dont believe everything that came from greece, just because the bible is written in greece. many historians, even the ones who are around 500, 1,000 years ago, might be wrong. you repeat a false story enough, and people will swear it is real. how many people believe the "leathernecks" story is orginated in the philippines. how many people believe all martial arts comes from shaolin? how many people believe that kenpo is really "chinese karate"??? i remember as a boy i saw a school who says that his arnis, came from lapu lapu himself... filipinos, in the philippines, didnt have too many books and magazines to read about the martial arts 20 years ago, so they read the american books and magazines. many filipinos, even filipino "grandmasters" saw that "kali is the mother art" so they began to say, my art is the mother art. well here we are 20, 30 years later, and they have to defend the use of it. its too late to say "i read it in danny inosanto's book", so they have to come up with bs to support their use, even when they debate with another filipino. to answer why some "masters" have KALI in their name, and they cant explain it. i say bullshit. they can explain. they WONT explain. in 1970 most of these ex-eskrimador, probably never heard of placido yambao's book, but they dam sure heard of danny inosantos. book. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 13:27:15 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Yambao's book and interpretation (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #131 - 15 msgs) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net PG Mat: Hope the book gets published. In that eventuality, I would be honored to review it. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com Pananandta@aol.com wrote: Jay, Thanks for your interest in my work. There is some story behind the book. Read on..... (snipped) .... So, I declined the offer. I have shot the photos in the book 3 times over and I am going to re-shoot it again. But this time, only my son, Mt Jr., and I will be in the book. You see Jay, I have not given up on the book. You might still get to review it :-) Thanks again. APMarinas Sr. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:06:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Guro Dennis Servaes To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Differences in Dizon's Escriam and Angel's Serrada - what do you mean? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray There are individual differences in Serrada, for instance I can sometimes tell who someone has been working out with from the way they do their techniques. Master Grabriel Asucion, used to get asked by Great Grandmaster Angel Cabales, "You been workin' out with Vincent?" He could tell because of simularities of correct movement. However, just because someone claims something in an email or someone claims to have studied from one of Dizon's other students that doesn't do Escrima like Angel, doesn't mean that Dizon and Angel's Systems are different. People's perceptions and rationalizations can come up with all kinds of stuff. Dizon and Angel's arts are essentially the same thing. How could you say "not at all alike?" In 1,000 years from now the art will still be the same, or else you should call it something else. Serrada doesn't need to change. Some of the techniques people learn from other systems in hopes of improving Serrada, it might surprise some people to know that those same techniques have been around a long time, and just because they never saw Angel or Dizon do them doesn't mean that they didn't know the particular techniques. Also, there is only so much that a person is able to do in a confrontation, so it is best to stick to what you are taught pretty much. The basics. Maybe we have different interpretations about the meanings of the word 'influence,' but I think implying that Dentoy was an influence on Serrada is misleading. Dentoy was rather influenced by Angel, as he trained in Serrada- from Angel. So do you mean that as a student he infuenced Serrada teaching methods? How specifically do you mean? Train hard and have fun! Dennis >Dizon's Eskrima and Cabales' Serrada are very different, not at all >alike. >Why? We can only guess. >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Differences in Dizon's Escriam and Angel's Serrada - what do To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 18:29:40 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Maybe we have different interpretations about the meanings of the word > 'influence,' but I think implying that Dentoy was an influence on Serrada > is misleading. Dentoy was rather influenced by Angel, as he trained in > Serrada- from Angel. So do you mean that as a student he infuenced Serrada > teaching methods? How specifically do you mean? I'll stick [no pun intended] to this one small portion for comment... Angel and Dentoy influenced each other. It was not a one way street. True, Dentoy and Angel had a falling out. Dentoy wanted to workout with other eskrimadors in the area and Angel didn't like that. He didn't like it one little bit. So the stories that have been handed down on the CSE side have been, umm, revised a little bit. Never forget that Dentoy was there with Angel before almost anyone else, he was probably THE first. And in those early workouts and lessons with/under Angel, he helped Angel form what became Cabales Serrada Escrima. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest