Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 02:58:34 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #141 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. The terms Arnis and Eskrima (Mark Harrell) 2. Leo Gaje Jr./Frank Ortega (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #140 - 17 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 3. RE: Art of Arnis by Jose Paman (Danny Anderson) 4. Phil Newspapers/magazines & the FMA (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #140-17 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 5. Re: Leo Gaje Jr./Frank Ortega (Ray) 6. Re: Kali (Felipe Jocano) 7. Re: Prof. Felipe Jocano Jr. and the FMA (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #138 - 11 msgs) (Felipe Jocano) 8. Culture or cultures? (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Mark Harrell" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 00:31:19 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] The terms Arnis and Eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There seems to be alot of knowledgeable individuals posting so lets switch gears and go deeper into the terms that most of us seem to accept (Arnis and Eskrima). I would be interested in reading the about the history of the two terms (Arnis and Eskrima) and also about what terms were used before Arnis and Eskrima were accepted. Thank you, Mark     ------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what you’re getting into…before you go there --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 21:33:42 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Leo Gaje Jr./Frank Ortega (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #140 - 17 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Al, Frank Ortega took second place in the unarmored tournament that I held in New York in December 1975 in the beginners group. Leo (Gaje Jr.) did not field any of his students in the advance group. There were very few practitioners of the FMA at the time. There were only four competitors in the advance group - all my students. When I visit NY, sometimes I run into Frank. Leo (Gaje Jr.) and I used to do demonstrations in NY together. Best. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/9/2007 5:06:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: The Use of Kali vs. Arnis I wrote this privately but I will throw it out in public. In the late 1970's I saw Grand Tuhon Gaje and his students do a demonstration in New York's Chinatown, I remember him calling his art, Arnis. Also, pictured on the cover of the April 1977 edition of Official Karate, is Grand Tuhon Gaje with one of his first students Guro Frank Ortega. The caption next to them, "Arnis DeMano: The New Crime Fighter". I'm sure that back then GT Gaje's art was good and deadly as it is today so I can assume that using Kali instead of Arnis was and is simply a different name and nothing more. Respectfully, Al Sardinas ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Danny Anderson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 01:41:44 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Art of Arnis by Jose Paman Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Art of Arnis by Jose Paman Jose Paman has put forth a pretty good book on Kombatan arnis, the system of Ernesto Presas, and is worth picking up. There is one section in the chapter From Modern Arnis To Kombatan that needs commenting on. Quote:[TABLE NOT SHOWN](paragraph split mine) Sorry to say but paragraph one is incorrect. I know for a fact that from Prof. Remy's point of view, he and Ernesto were very much at odds to the point that when Ernesto had heart trouble, several of Remy's students (Bram Frank and Hock Hockheim come to mind) had to persuade Remy to go visit his brother. I know from conversations with my teacher (Prof. Remy) that he was not close to Ernetso at all. He did not say anything against Roberto. That being said, I agree with the second section of the paragraph. I have met very few Kombatan players but I have gotten along with the ones I do know. Rick Manglinong and Mike Bowers are thetwo that I know and Mike was kind enough to bring Ernesto over to my school to meet me. I visited his seminar the next dy to bring him a gift to show my respect. Anyway, pick up the book. You'll find it to be a good one. Yours, Dan Anderson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best Web mail—award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 21:48:13 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Phil Newspapers/magazines & the FMA (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #140-17 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In fairness and in gratitude to other US based Filipino newspapers who played a major role in the propagation of the FMA by publishing all news releases I sent them from the early 1970s through the 1980s, I would like to share their names with EDers. They include aside from the Filipino Reporter (New York, NY) , The Philippine News (San Francisco, California), Philippine Times (Chicago, Illinois), Ningas Cogon (New York, NY) and the Manila Sun. They also published press releases from other FMA teachers. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/9/2007 5:06:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Again to EDers, the Filipino Reporter played a prominent role in the propagation of the FMA. They are/were only too willing to publish anything about the FMA. Leo (Gaje Jr.) and I took advantage of their kindness and released quite a number of news through them in the early 1970's and through the 1980's. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 5 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Leo Gaje Jr./Frank Ortega To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 19:04:36 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > ... There > were very few practitioners of the FMA at the time. In the US, eskrima had not yet spread much beyond California by the mid-70s. But by the late 1970s you had the West Coast Eskrima Society consisting of such well known eskrimadors as Mike Inay, Jimmy Tacosa, Max Sarmiento, Narrie Baboa, Dentoy Revilar, Richard Bustillo, Danny Inosanto, Gilbert Tenio... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 19:18:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi James: Aha, the holy grail of the kali controversy! :-) the decree where the Spanish Governor General banned the practice of the martial art of kali. I've been looking around for a copy of this document, which is supposed to date to 1764, but I haven't found it, not even an English translation. An interesting point about the banning of kali practice: In Mirafuente's chapter in Yambao's book, the governor at one point tried to limit the production of the moro-moro plays (which featured arnis) because people tended to watch them all the time to the neglect of their fields. Also, the banning of wearing bolos in public was because of the threats to law and order - when people got drunk, they were more likely to respond to provocation, especially if they were males and they were provoked in front of the ladies. Mirafuente does not mention this as being a threat to the Spanish conquerors. I'm still looking around for a copy of this decree as well: best would be an English translation, but at that this point, all I can say how I wish... :-) Which leads to another nitpicking point, but which would lead us to ask questions about the received wisdom of the image of arnis over the years: Was the supposed banning of the practice of kali a military matter (which the stories about the decree of 1764 seem to imply)? This is the image that we have as a form of received wisdom. Or was it a civilian matter, i.e., a perceived threat to everyday law and order best addressed by banning the tools that led to these threats? In which case, the so-called banning was more a matter of internal control, since the Spaniards did have military superiority after all in spite of smaller numbers due to their firearms and artillery. For our friends in the ED: The distinction may seem tedious to some of our friends who lose their patience with this discussion, but in facing thse questions, we also deal with the image of our beloved arts. How we perceive these matters a great deal in our practice, questions of technical superiority aside. They will influence our motivations to practice and maintain these arts, apart from the pragmatic motives we already have for practicing them. Bot "james jr. sy" wrote: > Hi Prof, > > A chronological comparison of the documents where > Arnes and Kali were first recorded is just one of > several arguments that will point us to the road to > the truth. If no mitigating evidence can be > forwarded to refute the same then we have in our > hands one verifiable data that tells us that Kali is > indeed not older than Arnis. > > There are other proofs we can scrutinize. It was > said that Kali was banned by the Spaniards. If this > was true then no doubt we will be able to find a > Spanish document that that will mention Kali by > name, otherwise how can the Spaniards ban something > without naming it? > > > JAMES U. SY JR. > Conceptual Martial Arts Society (CMAS), Inc. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 19:25:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Prof. Felipe Jocano Jr. and the FMA (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #138 - 11 msgs) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi PG Mat: For this I can thank the ED: I had a chance to (virtually) meet you. I mentioned your name to my mom and she said you were one of the brightest professors she knew at Adamson. Here's to a small world (toast with buko juice) Bot --- Pananandta@aol.com wrote: > In the short time that I have subscribed to ED, Bot > have given some > revealing insight into the FMA. > > In a personal email to me, Bot asked if I remembered > a certain Prof. Adria > Jocano who taught at Adamson University. I left > Adamson University in 1973 and > it has been 34 years since. But I can still remember > Prof. Adria Jocano. She > was a fellow faculty member at Adamson. Prof. Adria > Jocano taught chemistry > while I taught chemical engineering. Adria (whom we > called Ading at Adamson) > is Bot's Mom. > > Small world indeed it is! > > APMarinas Sr. > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 --__--__-- Message: 8 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 21:07:56 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [Eskrima] Culture or cultures? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > ... Our islands were not called > Philippines. We did have an original culture, traditions and an original > name. Given that there are/were so many tribal groups on so many islands, was there "an" original culture or many (hundreds?) unique and distinct original cultures? I suspect the latter, but am curious... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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