Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 07:28:55 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #142 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: The Indian Connection (bgdebuque) 2. Re: Culture or cultures? (nephalim1@aim.com) 3. Re: The Indian connection (james jr. sy) 4. Re: Inosanto and Kali (iPat) 5. Re: The Indian Connection (james jr. sy) 6. Re: The Indian Connection (james jr. sy) 7. Re: Kali (iPat) 8. Research on Ban on Kali (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #141-11 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 9. Re: The Indian Connection (nephalim1@aim.com) 10. Re: Culture or cultures? (nephalim1@aim.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 01:07:19 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Indian Connection Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just in case my recollections are all wrong, I went "knocking" at the official website of the Shaolin Temple Overseas Organization and here are the relevant excerpts I found: On the Shaolin Temple itself: "Shaolin Temple was built in the year 495 A.D . Bodhidharma is acknowledged as the First Patriarch of Chinese Chan Buddhism and is credited with providing the foundations for Shaolin Kung Fu." On Bodhidharma himself: "Bodhidharma was the 28th patriarch of Buddhism (28th direct descendant of the historical Buddha) and the first patriarch of Chinese Chan (Zen) Buddhism. He was an enlightened master who introduced Chan Buddhism to China and is known as the founding father of Shaolin Kung Fu. Born a prince in the southern Indian kingdom of Pallava at around 440 A.D., Bodhidharma was to follow in his father's footsteps as king." It is true that China already had its own martial arts even before Shaolin Kung Fu came about (kuntao seems to be one of them). I have yet to find a present-day major Chinese Martial Arts School, however, which does not trace its lineage to Shaolin Kung Fu (Pek Sil Lum, Hung Gar, Wing Chun, Southern White Crane, etc, all have Shaolin monks in their lineage - maybe even Tai Chi Chuan, but I have to check on that first). As to the lineage of Northeast Asian MA, I tend to believe the following based on my own research: NORTHERN LINE: Bodhidharma - Shaolin Kung Fu - Northern Shaolin Styles (Pek Sil Lum, etc.) - Tang Soo Do (via Manchuria) - Tae Kwon Do (created by South Korean Government mandate in the late 1950s) SOUTHERN LINE: Boddhidharma - Shaolin Kung Fu - Southern Shaolin Styles (Hung Gar, Wing Chun, Southern White Crane, etc.) - Shorin Ryu (the Shaolin Way)/Okinawate - Shotokan/Karate - Tang Soo Do - Tae Kwon Do Even if you disregard the possible Kalaripayattu-Silat line, Indian MA will still have a heavy influence on the FMA through Okinawan and Japanese Karate. As to the origin of Bodhidharma's martial arts knowledge, I am inclined to believe the results of the Discovery Channel/National Geographic's investigation that it is very likely from Kalaripayattu (primarily because they practically have unlimited resources at their disposal for this type of investigation, and the fact that, according to the present-day Shaolin Temple authorities, Boddhidharma is also from that part of India). Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 05:11:06 -0700 (PDT) > From: "james jr. sy" > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Indian connection > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Some historians regard Bodhidharma (a.k.a. Damo, Tamo, Daruma) more as a > legendary rather than as a historical figure. Furthermore, it has yet to be > conclusively proven that Bodhidharma, if he indeed existed, indeed > introduced a martial art system to the Shaolin monks. It must be noted that > even before Bodhidharma supposedly arrived at Shaolin Temple, the Chinese > already have their own martial systems, most of which were used by the > military. At a basic level, the set of exercises supposedly introduced by > Bodhidharma were for physical fitness and has yet to be proven conclusively > as the origin of Shaolin Chuan Fa (fist way). > > > We have many �assumed� claims in the martial arts nowadays using the same > line of thinking. Here is what�s currently accepted: > > Taekwondo < Japanese Karate < Okinawan Karate < Chinese Chuan Fa > > Which was extended to > > Taekwondo < Japanese Karate < Okinawan Karate < Chinese Chuan Fa < Indian > Martial Arts (because of bodhidharma) < Greek Martial Arts (because > Alexander the Great�s had set foot in India) --__--__-- Message: 2 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Culture or cultures? Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 02:42:14 -0400 From: nephalim1@aim.com Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Prior to the spanish colonisation, the Philippines was not one nation. And imho is now a nation of cultures. Rob, a good friend of mine and Po's (PG Mat Marinas) studen't says that Po once mentioned that the Philippines is like the United Nations of Asia. This makes sense because of the many influences found in different dialects. Present day Mindoro area was called Mai, Luzon was called Lusung Guo. Visayas as Sri Vijaya (shining victory?). Then there is the Sultanate of Sulu and so many other tribes encompassing a supposedly one nation under the rule of Spain. Before the Spanish colonisation Portugese traders reffered to the people of Lusong Guo as Lucoes. The varying mix of cultures probably resulted from the Philippines strategic location in Asia. It has been the center of trade before Spanish history. Here are some links that would at least explain my cultures Spanish pre-history. http://www.pampanga-online.com/modules.php?name=PixModl-Sections&secid=2 http://sambali.blogspot.com/2005_11_23_archive.html http://sambali.blogspot.com/2005_12_03_archive.html hope this helps, Jose -----Original Message----- From: rterry@idiom.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:07 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Culture or cultures? > ... Our islands were not called > Philippines. We did have an original culture, traditions and an original > name. Given that there are/were so many tribal groups on so many islands, was there "an" original culture or many (hundreds?) unique and distinct original cultures? I suspect the latter, but am curious... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 00:58:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Indian connection To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I’m sorry about my last post. “Then you have saying Egypt was the first civilization on earth so we can assume that African Martial Arts is the origin of all martial arts.” It should have been “Then there are those who say that Egypt…” Sorry for the slip. I wouldn’t dare use The Great Khali as an evidence of the Indian origins of FMA lest we want FMA as just another sports entertainment. :p bgdebuque wrote: I think there is already a fair degree of acceptance of the Indian origins of Japanese Karate through the Boddhidharma-Shaoilin Kung Fu-Okinawan Karate line. Since it is also heavily-based on Northern Shaolin Kung Fu, as well as Japanese Karate, it appears that even Korean Karate has Indian roots too. Now, it is interesting to note that the spread of Indian martials in Northeast Asia was only a sideshow to India's main contribution to Northeast Asian culture - Buddhism. Wherever Buddhism went, Indian martial arts followed. In Southeast Asia, not only Buddhism but Hinduism as well became the platforms of the spread of Indian culture. Southeast Asia used to be ruled by a succession of Buddhist and Hindu empires. The areas covered by these empires include modern-day Indonesia and Malaysia, Southern Thailand, Southern Cambodia, as well as Central and Southern Philippines. If you juxtapose the experience of China, Japan and Korea with Buddhism, it would be logical to assume that Indian martial arts also made a piggy-back ride on the spread of Buddhism and Hinduism in Southeast Asia. I'm not sure whether it was Discovery Channel or National Geographic which embarked on a search for the remnant of any ancient Indian martial art which could be the possible forebear of modern Northeast Asian martial arts. What I'm sure though is that their search ultimately led them to Kelari Province of Southern India and the martial art of Kalaripayattu. It is, therefore, logical to assume that the Shaolin Kung Fu-Okinawan Karate-Japanese Karate line in the North also have a Southern counterpart - the Silat-FMA line. BTW, my recent research also indicated that even the famed Damascus blades of Indonesia, Malaysia and Southern Philippines are also of Indian origins - the Arabs merely served as the conduit of the transfer of technology. In case you have further doubts on the Indian origins of "Kali', just tune-in to Monday night WWE wrestling. There's an Indian wrestler there touted to be bigger than the late Andre the Giant who calls himself "The Great Khali"..... =[:->] When it is postulated that FMA originated from the Indian Martial Arts the > already messy and chaotic debate whether Kali is indeed Filipino or > Indonesian is further clouded and strays us from the truth farther. If we > hope for this theory to be taken seriously what we need would be more than > supposition. > > bgdebuque wrote: > I think you are on the right track. > > It appears that the ancient martial art from South India of Kalaripayattu > have spawned several martial arts-based performing arts, all of which have > "kali" affixed to it - KOLKALI, VELAKALI, THACHOLIKALI and KATHAKALI. > > KOLKALI is particularly interesting. According to Wikipedia: "The dance > performers move in a circle, striking small sticks and keeping rhythm with > special steps. The circle expands and contracts as the dance progress." > > Kalaripayattu is now highly-suspected as the possible origin of Shaolin > Kung > Fu. It would not be highly remote that it could also be the origin of the > FMA. If that is really the case, the use of "Kali" to refer to the FMA > would not be without basis at all. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:02:34 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Inosanto and Kali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net no doubt he promoted it, but then he propelled the FMA into a worldwide market - i myself first experienced it at one of his seminars in 1986. But he had instructors too and the one thing anyone who experiences Inosanto will tell you, he gives the uttmost respect to his instructors. So if his instructors had refferred to the art he learnt as Donald Duck then i have no doubt we would be associating that term with the art. ; ) So when LaCoste influenced the young Inosanto, speaking to him in his fathers dialect as a mark of respect to his father, what did he call the art and what history did he give the young Inosanto? Not all the Stockton community used the term, so it must have been someone very influential in his training, supported by his fathers historical knowledge. On 5/5/07, gatpuno@aol.com wrote: > > You nailed it, we dont know anyhting about this, since Dan Inosanto . -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 01:07:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Indian Connection To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net No matter if Islam and Catholicism had taken over modern Philippines, it goes without saying that if Hinduism and Buddhism indeed dominated ancient Philippines, then there would be traces and thus, evidences of them being so. The question is what are these proofs to such an assertion? As a concrete example, let’s take the oracion of FMA. These chants are mostly Christian prayers mixed from different languages among them Latin. Although it is based on Christian prayers, the chant itself is a practice by pagan Filipino even before they were converted to Christianity. That is assimilation but then you would still see the traces of the pagan religion. Could the same be said for Hinduism and Buddhism? If the basis for the tracing of FMA to Indian martial arts is the Majadpahit and Sri Vishaya Empires, which are Hindu-Indian, then more proofs need to be offered. Filipino historians showed that the influence of these empires to the Philippines was more commercial in nature, i.e. trade, not so much as the Philippines being part of the empire. Remember, the Philippines at this point was not a unified nation. Any assumption made on the basis that it is a unified country would be flawed. bgdebuque wrote: Most historical accounts I have seen place the extreme boundaries of these empires in the vicinity of the Visayan Islands. Inasmuch as the center of power in pre-Hispanic Philippines is in the South, it can be fairly assumed that during the heydays of these Buddhist and Hindu empires, they have effective control over the area. The reason why Buddhist and Hindu traditions are already hard to trace in current Philippine culture can be summed up in 2 words - Islam and Catholicism. Even in Java and Sumatra, which used to be the centers of these empires, only minor traces of Buddhist and Hindu traditions can be found in the current day-to-day life of their inhabitants due to the predominance of Islamic culture. How much more in the case of the Philippines which has been subjected to, not only 1 but 2, of the most powerful assimiliationist cultural forces the modern world has ever seen? *Is it indeed a historical fact that Buddhism and Hinduism at one time enjoyed wide acceptance in the Philippines? Or more that Buddhist and Hindi rulers considered the islands as part of their broader empire? * _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 01:36:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Indian Connection To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Correct me if I’m wrong Sir but the Maragtas, which is oral tradition/folklore rather history, tells of the arrival of the 10 Bornean Datus in Panay (Antique Province to be exact) where they inhabited. Some of the datus supposedly left Panay for search of other islands. From there they were said to call central Philippines as Visayas, in honor of their empire. jay de leon wrote: It is interesting to note that the poster's "Sriwijaya" is also spelled as Sri-Vishaya, with its seat of government supposedly in what is now Palembang, Sumatra. Sri is an Indian honorific so the inhabitants were really called Vishayans. The Vishayans settled in what is now Cebu, and spread its influence to the outer provinces, forming the Visayas of the Philippines. Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com bgdebuque wrote: Like Indonesia and Malaysia, before Islamic Philippines became "Islamic", they were supposed to have been Buddhist and then Hindu. Try to do some readings on the Sriwijaya and Madjapahit Empires and you will be able to see the connection. The physical remnants of these empires can still be found in the Borobodur and Prambanan temples near Jogjakarta in Central Java. Bali Island near the tip of East Java, on the other hand, have remained loyal to Hinduism until now. I have never ever heard of even a hint of this so "connection" throughout my > education in the Philippines, nor in any reading or even stories or > references. We've always been taught that before christianity and islam > came into the Philippines, animalism and worship of anscestors and nature > was the religion of our forefathers. Even today you see these beliefs > intermixed with catholicism. Buddhism's influence came in through the > chinese communities but never propagated out in any significant way, > probably due to the close community and strick prohibitions of intermarriage > in the chinese culture. There is a fair size community of indians in the > Philippines, but they also tend to keep to themselves (and unfortunately > discriminated on as well). _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:00:17 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net How did they do it elsewhere? I might suggest that they might have had set procedures for occupation in which decrees like this would be standard. On 5/10/07, Felipe Jocano wrote: > Was the supposed banning of the practice of kali a > military matter (which the stories about the decree of > 1764 seem to imply)? This is the image that we have as > a form of received wisdom. > Or was it a civilian matter, i.e., a perceived threat > to everyday law and order best addressed by banning > the tools that led to these threats? In which case, > the so-called banning was more a matter of internal > control, since the Spaniards did have military > superiority after all in spite of smaller numbers due > to their firearms and artillery. -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 08:49:34 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Research on Ban on Kali (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #141-11 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bot, James, The best place for research could be in Spain - which only means that you should speak Spanish, have the money, have the time, and have a Spanish amigo to guide you around. When I went to Spain in the mid-1990's, I tried to dig up some historical facts and techniques of Spanish fighting with the navaja. (I was accompanied by a Spanish student of mine.) Unfortunately the library I went to (in Albacete) was closed at the time. I did not have the chance to go back to the library because I was already scheduled to go back to the US. There is a book published by Paladin Press on Spanish knife fighting techniques written by GM James Loriega (a New Yorker). I know him personally and I did a workshop for him sometime back. Albacete is one of the centers of knife making in Spain. The famous Spanish navaja is often called the albacetena. Albacete came from the two Moorish words Al Basit (plains). From the air, Albacete is flat and surrounded by mountains. They make beautifully handcrafted balisongs out there and I bought a few. The Filipinos changed the word navaja into labaha (labaja). Best. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/10/2007 6:06:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Hi James: Aha, the holy grail of the kali controversy! :-) the decree where the Spanish Governor General banned the practice of the martial art of kali. I've been looking around for a copy of this document, which is supposed to date to 1764, but I haven't found it, not even an English translation. An interesting point about the banning of kali practice: In Mirafuente's chapter in Yambao's book, the governor at one point tried to limit the production of the moro-moro plays (which featured arnis) because people tended to watch them all the time to the neglect of their fields. Also, the banning of wearing bolos in public was because of the threats to law and order - when people got drunk, they were more likely to respond to provocation, especially if they were males and they were provoked in front of the ladies. Mirafuente does not mention this as being a threat to the Spanish conquerors. I'm still looking around for a copy of this decree as well: best would be an English translation, but at that this point, all I can say how I wish... :-) Which leads to another nitpicking point, but which would lead us to ask questions about the received wisdom of the image of arnis over the years: Was the supposed banning of the practice of kali a military matter (which the stories about the decree of 1764 seem to imply)? This is the image that we have as a form of received wisdom. Or was it a civilian matter, i.e., a perceived threat to everyday law and order best addressed by banning the tools that led to these threats? In which case, the so-called banning was more a matter of internal control, since the Spaniards did have military superiority after all in spite of smaller numbers due to their firearms and artillery. For our friends in the ED: The distinction may seem tedious to some of our friends who lose their patience with this discussion, but in facing thse questions, we also deal with the image of our beloved arts. How we perceive these matters a great deal in our practice, questions of technical superiority aside. They will influence our motivations to practice and maintain these arts, apart from the pragmatic motives we already have for practicing them. Bot ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 9 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Indian Connection Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:57:16 -0400 From: nephalim1@aim.com Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net James, I believe the Maragtas legend has been relegated as a hoax or myth much like the Code of Kalantiaw. Best Regards, Jose -----Original Message----- From: james_sy_jr74@yahoo.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Thu, 10 May 2007 4:36 AM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Indian Connection Correct me if I’m wrong Sir but the Maragtas, which is oral tradition/folklore rather history, tells of the arrival of the 10 Bornean Datus in Panay (Antique Province to be exact) where they inhabited. Some of the datus supposedly left Panay for search of other islands. From there they were said to call central Philippines as Visayas, in honor of their empire. jay de leon wrote: It is interesting to note that the poster's "Sriwijaya" is also spelled as Sri-Vishaya, with its seat of government supposedly in what is now Palembang, Sumatra. Sri is an Indian honorific so the inhabitants were really called Vishayans. The Vishayans settled in what is now Cebu, and spread its influence to the outer provinces, forming the Visayas of the Philippines. Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com bgdebuque wrote: Like Indonesia and Malaysia, before Islamic Philippines became "Islamic", they were supposed to have been Buddhist and then Hindu. Try to do some readings on the Sriwijaya and Madjapahit Empires and you will be able to see the connection. The physical remnants of these empires can still be found in the Borobodur and Prambanan temples near Jogjakarta in Central Java. Bali Island near the tip of East Java, on the other hand, have remained loyal to Hinduism until now. I have never ever heard of even a hint of this so "connection" throughout my > education in the Philippines, nor in any reading or even stories or > references. We've always been taught that before christianity and islam > came into the Philippines, animalism and worship of anscestors and nature > was the religion of our forefathers. Even today you see these beliefs > intermixed with catholicism. Buddhism's influence came in through the > chinese communities but never propagated out in any significant way, > probably due to the close community and strick prohibitions of intermarriage > in the chinese culture. There is a fair size community of indians in the > Philippines, but they also tend to keep to themselves (and unfortunately > discriminated on as well). _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. --__--__-- Message: 10 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Culture or cultures? Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:15:45 -0400 From: nephalim1@aim.com Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On my earlier post regarding this topic I meant to say Pre-colonial history iinstead of Spanish pre-history. There has been much intermingling of cultures throughout Southeast Asia. In Bruneian royal lineage there is a certain Pangiran Maharaja Sri Laila Sahib ul-Kahar Ung Sunting who is also known as Ong Sum Ping and is, according to Bruneian sources, a Ming Prince. I believe that there is no one source or "original culture" due to many different waves of migration from many regions of the sub-continent. The influences did remain through inter-marriages from different cultures. The Philippine region have been inhabited from as early as 250,000 B.C. -----Original Message----- From: rterry@idiom.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:07 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Culture or cultures? > ... Our islands were not called > Philippines. We did have an original culture, traditions and an original > name. Given that there are/were so many tribal groups on so many islands, was there "an" original culture or many (hundreds?) unique and distinct original cultures? I suspect the latter, but am curious... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest