Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 02:58:26 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #152 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Topher Ricketts & FMA history (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #150 - 8 msgs) (Felipe Jocano) 2. RE: GM Raymond Tobosa (W S) 3. Crane Style of Arnis de Mano? (GatPuno@aol.com) 4. RE: Kali source. (Van Harn, Steve) 5. Re: RE: Kali source. (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 00:26:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Topher Ricketts & FMA history (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #150 - 8 msgs) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi PG Mat; I had thought about it, but I feel it should be a group endeavor. I certainly need help from a lot of people! Your knowledge and experience will help a great deal. Manong Jay? Manong Jorge? Alex Ercia? James Sy? Sali kayo!!! Other guys here? This is our history! BTW, PG, I have two of your books. One of them is an early, locally published copy of Pananandata: Dalawang Yantok. The other one is Pananandata Rope Fighting. The University's Filipiniana collection has a copy of one of your books (sorry I forgot which title - have to go back and look). Bot --- Pananandta@aol.com wrote: > Jay, > > I am hoping Topher Ricketts will consider sharing > his information on FMA > with us. I am sure he will be able to fill some gaps > in my memory just like you > (Jay) and James did. Many of the names (that I > missed) you and James mentioned > were well known FMA practitioners and they were > spoken of with great > respect. How could I have missed Johnny Carranza? > He even shares the last name of > the Spanish fencer who wrote the first book on > Spanish fencing. > > Writing about the history of the FMA in the > Philippines recently crossed my > mind. However, the earliest I could start on it will > be in two years. > > I am working on a few manuscripts that are in > various stages of completion.I > have also started writing another manuscript that is > outside of the FMA and > I plan to finish it by May of 2008. > > I am hoping somebody writes the book. I will pass > the buck. How about it Bot? > > APMarinas Sr. > > > > > In a message dated 5/15/2007 4:05:36 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, > eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > > PG Mat, FWIW, another good source about martial > arts in Manila > is Topher Ricketts, who of course trained with > Tatang, Johnny Chiuten, > Doc Lengson, kung-fu masters in Chinatown and other > martial arts greats. > As you can imagine, he has many first hand stories > about martial arts > shenanigans in Manila. > > Just in case you are considering writing a book... > > Jay de Leon > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's > free at http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "W S" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:02:45 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: GM Raymond Tobosa Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net After GM Tobosa passed away Teofisto (Toby) Tobosa inherited the system. I believe Teofisto passed in 2000, I'm not sure who became the official "inheritor" (if there is one) of the Tobosa system after that. Some of the people you could check with: Sifu Al Dacascos Maestro Mike Delmar Maestra Josephine "Joey" del Mar Maestro Don Mendoza All of whom were direct students of GM Tobosa. Sifu Al sent me some photos of GM Tobosa & Teofisto Tobosa a while back. A couple were the same ones that are in Wiley's book. Another was an old B&W photo of him with GM Raymond and Teofisto Tobosa back in the early 70's. Great photos. Not much to go on but I hope that helps Guro William Schultz Mongrel Combative Arts Philippine Combative Martial Arts New England Pekiti-Tirsia Pitbulls www.battlegroundtrainingcenter.net william@mongrelcombativearts.com >"Anyone have any information on inheritors of the late Raymond Tabosa's >art?" _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 --__--__-- Message: 3 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:52:30 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Crane Style of Arnis de Mano? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 23:57:48 -0400 > From: bgdebuque > Subject: [Eskrima] FMA and Philippine Folk Dances > > Just don't forget to inform us once the book is already on sale. > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but will this be the first published material on > the link between Philippine Dance and the FMA? > > I gave this serious thought myself a few years ago and I was able to notice > certain crane style-like movements in certain basic moves in Philippine Folk > Dance.  Examples of which are: > > 1. The "Waltz Step" > 2. The "Sway Balance" > 3. The "Tinikling" 3-step hop across 2 closing and opening poles > > Which leads us to the question: "Is there a crane style branch in the FMA?" > > I think both Malaysian and Indonesian Silat have crane style branches. > > > Hi, If you are member of the FMA-Digest, which is on-line magazine own by Guro Steven Dowd. Last year toward of the 2006, published a special issue of the "Folk Dance of the Philippines" and how it link to the Filipino Martial Arts. I also contibuted articles with him on that topic. He also just published the the special issue of the "Healinbg Arts of the Philippines" just last month featuring "two" myself and my friend Virgil Apostol. If you want a copy search FMAdigest.com. In regards of the "Crane Style of Arnis, Eskrima, Estokada". The Crane style is one of the famous style of Arnis in Laguna called "Binakaw" is sub system that we used, and one of the strongest fighting style in Largo mano style (Long Range), that we teach in our brand of Largo Mano. Basically the Binakaw is always part of the Siete Colores Arnis de Mano. Many GM called their art Siete Pares Arnis, Siete Palo, Siete Stilo, Laban Tulisan,, Pitong Patama, Pitong Taga, Numerado Pito at Pito-pito Eskrima. In my particular Siete Colores, we follow the original pattern of the 10 Maestro that I studied with under, with is start with (1) Bantay Salakay(Guard and attack), (2) Kalong Salikop (Carry and Catch), (3) Tukang Binakaw (Crane Attack), (4) Silong Labuyo (Trapping Wild Rooster), (5) Harang sa Parang (Block the fields), (6)Sunong-sunong (shade and shade), and (7) Patutok Pana (Point and Thrust). Striking in Siete Colores Arnis varies per Maestro, but the Common stikes is (1)Buhat Araw (Blow from the sun), (2) Tagang Alanganin (Cutting to the middle), (3)Aldabis (Upward hook slash), (4)Bartikal (Backhand down-sideward slash), (5) Saboy sabukay (Splash and upward cut), (6) Pugot ulo (head cutting) and (7) Saka (digging attacks) or thrust. The uniqueness of the style all of the position, like Fighting Stances, Strikes, and Defensive movement has particular named. To somewhat is easy for the practitioner to remember the meaning and technical usage of each. Easy to teach and easy to absorb, now the hardest part of the style is to apply, this where we "burned" our time, in playful sparring, sparring, and more sparring, perfecting each position of attack and defense. The only thing that we are different that the others, Siete Colores has not force you to block, the teaching is force you to avoid instead of block and strike. They consider that as a waste of movements, but I classify that in my particular style now is defend to the situation. I used Sumbrada, sometimes known as Payong, Sunong, and Pandong all of them meaning shades, If the timing off to strike on-coming attack is already half way there, I basically taeaches to cover first before attacking. But this is my father and I interpreatation. A lots of the Maestro is not allowing you to block at all, they force you to used your skills in footwork, body mechanic, and bantay kamay (hand guard) and more body techniques to avoid getting struck by his strike. Hopefully it shade some light to the readers. Kapatid Alex Ercia, is very welcome to come viisit the Paete Group and any time that he is around, And I would love to extend that invitation to all of you, whenever you got a chance to visit my town, Paete, Laguna. Drop by and pay us visit, I am thankful to brotherhood of Guro Ramon Rubia, of San Miguel Eskrima, he visited me two years ago and he came back with his wife last July and see my brother Rodrigo "Garimot" Baet to accompany them to the Town Plaza where the Paete Tournaments is being conducts. Alex Ercia and his brothers is prequent visitor of my family, and Maestro Doy Baldemor the head of Paete Arnis Federation, Maestro Rogelio Alberto of the Centurion Original (Former Paete Arnis Club 1920). I will be in St. Louis Missouri this weekend for my yearly Seminar there if anyone interwested to join me on the Seminar e-mail me.. or visit our website for contact info. See you, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 08:59:54 -0500 From: "Van Harn, Steve" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Kali source. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jon Broster wrote: With regard to Guro Inosanto and the names his main teachers used for their art. In "The Filipino Martial Arts", it is clear that a majority of his teachers use either arnis or escrima (or both) but he still chooses to use kali. Cabales - Escrima Ellustrisimo - Escrima Giron - Escrima & Arnis LaCoste - Kali-Escrima-Arnis-Sikaran Largusa & Villabrille - Kali It would, therefore seem reasonable for him to have chosen the term ESCRIMA, but he did not. I have always assumed that this was down to 2 reasons: 1 - he had to call it something, and maybe felt that he liked kali better. 2 - a desire to promote Filipino culture - by choosing the only non-Spanish term. p170 of tFMA reads: "Most Filipino youths born in the United States were told Filipinos had no culture, were ignorant-unclothed savages running around with G-strings and spears, knew no form of government, lacked laws and were uneducated......." Clearly, the balance needs to be redressed and the record set straight. Where better to start than with linguistics? Just to add a small bit to this discussion, my Guru was training in "Kali" in Northern California long before Inosanto's book ever came out. We discussed this over the weekend. His Guru would alternately call it Kali, Silat, Kuntao and a few other names that don't immediately come to mind yet. This would be the very early '60s and his Guru never trained anyone but his son and my Guru and did not "mix" with any other Guros in the States. My point is, any name references he used would have came over with him from Jolo in the late '30s. Steve --__--__-- Message: 5 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Kali source. To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:35:40 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > His Guru would alternately call it Kali, Silat, Kuntao and a few other > names that don't immediately come to mind yet. Kuntao, Kenpo, Kwon-bup, Chuan-fa. Same-same. Meaning fist principles, way of the fist, or law of the fist form. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest