Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 06:04:26 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #157 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Kali - Indonesian Term (james jr. sy) 2. Re: Sunny Umpad FMA Festival (Bill Lowery) 3. Re: Topher Ricketts & FMA history (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #150 - 8 msgs) (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: Who's who in FMA history (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #147 - 8 msgs) (james jr. sy) 5. Re: RE: Kali source. (james jr. sy) 6. Re: Crane Style of Arnis de Mano? (james jr. sy) 7. Re: Inosanto and Kali (james jr. sy) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 05:14:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali - Indonesian Term To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Mark, The "An English - Indonesian Dictionary" lists River “Kali,” not FMA “Kali.” There is indeed a river in India called Kali. The Kali river is just that, a river, and not a martial art. The characteristics of water that were explained are the same as those written by Bruce Lee in his JKD books and taught by the Chinese in Taosim for thousands of years. The wavy design of the kris is for better slicing more than anything else. Don’t worry Mark, if somebody challenges you, you have the privilege of dictating that the fight be done in a river (just make sure your challenger doesn’t know how to swim hehehe see how a Filipino thinks?) :p Just joking. Be sure too that there’s no fair maiden bathing in the river least you fight over her instead of the challenge J JAMES Mark Harrell wrote: The term Kali can be found in the Indonesian dictionary: "An English - Indonesian Dictionary" by John M. Echols and Hassan Shadily Copyright 1975 by Cornell University (second paperback printing in 1985) International Standard Book Number (paperback) 0-8014-9859-7 Library of Congress Catalog Number 72-5638 Printed in the United States of America Page Number 487 Look under the term: RIVER You will find several terms listed for RIVER but one will be the term, KALI. The Indonesian term Kali meaning RIVER makes sense on many levels for those of us who practice Kali. Just look at the chacteristics of a RIVER: --- Based upon natural law --- Formless and shapeless so it can assume any form or shape to serve its purpose --- Seeks the path of least resistance --- Supports, nutures and protects life --- Can take a life --- Moves in straight or curved lines in accordance with what is needed to continue to flow --- The curved Kris sword shape reflects the characteristics of a river and this sword seems to be a favorite symbol in both Kali and Eskrima arts. --- All rivers are feed into by multiple streams (meaning many influances contribute to its whole) Etc, etc, etc... You get the idea... I am not a historian or so called expert but I do like the Indonesian term and definition more than many of the other definitions offered. To each their own I guess. Of particular interest to me is the simularity of how Indonesian Pentjak Silat Jurus and Langkahs are taught and expressed which I find to be simular to how some systems of Kali are taught and expressed. I am just sharing some interesting insights or opinions so please refrain from attacking me personally or challenging me to a death match... I am only offering something to think about and perhaps investigate further if you are interested. I am not writing to prove a point or say that this is better than that etc... Peace be with you, Mark Harrell ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best Web mail—award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Bill Lowery" To: Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 13:15:43 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Sunny Umpad FMA Festival Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Jon, 2nd FMA-Festival "The Seminar" Abanico DVD ISBN 3-89540-808-5. I got both that and "The Gala" DVD from Dieter a couple of years ago, so I'd wait for him to come onto the digest to get the correct prices. Bill --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 05:38:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Topher Ricketts & FMA history (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #150 - 8 msgs) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Manong Jay; Yes I did look at the 8th book - I have a copy of that one. I did get to drool over what I didn't have yet, especially the Harimaw Buno book by Gat Abon. After reading what you wrote about the definitive book on FMA history I got the shakes - Nick Joaquin I'm not.:-) He's waaaaaay above my level. For our non-Pinoy brethren on this group, the late Nick Joaquin was one of the Philippine's foremost literary figures. One of my favorite essays of his is "The Language of the Streets," a piece about Metro Manila street language from the 1970s and 80s. Would you guys believe that over here, adidas refers to stewed or fried chicken feet? (look at the shape and you'll see why) Delicious too :-) Bot --- jay de leon wrote: > Hi Bot: > > Look at the 8th book in the article. > > > http://www.filipinofightingartsintl.com/Publications/martial_arts/fma_books.html > > Whenever I go home to the Phil., I buy all the > arnis books I can find (slim > pickings, though) plus historical books that pique > my interest. > > Let me know when you start writing that book. If > you want, I can connect you > with Topher Ricketts and Rey Galang and others, > unless they are writing their > own books, lol. > > Jay de Leon > www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com > > > > > Felipe Jocano wrote: > Hi PG Mat; > > I had thought about it, but I feel it should be a > group endeavor. I certainly need help from a lot of > people! Your knowledge and experience will help a > great deal. Manong Jay? Manong Jorge? Alex Ercia? > James Sy? Sali kayo!!! Other guys here? This is our > history! > > BTW, PG, I have two of your books. One of them is an > early, locally published copy of Pananandata: > Dalawang > Yantok. The other one is Pananandata Rope Fighting. > The University's Filipiniana collection has a copy > of > one of your books (sorry I forgot which title - have > to go back and look). > > Bot > --- Pananandta@aol.com wrote: > > > Jay, > > > > I am hoping Topher Ricketts will consider sharing > > his information on FMA > > with us. I am sure he will be able to fill some > gaps > > in my memory just like you > > (Jay) and James did. Many of the names (that I > > missed) you and James mentioned > > were well known FMA practitioners and they were > > spoken of with great > > respect. How could I have missed Johnny Carranza? > > He even shares the last name of > > the Spanish fencer who wrote the first book on > > Spanish fencing. > > > > Writing about the history of the FMA in the > > Philippines recently crossed my > > mind. However, the earliest I could start on it > will > > be in two years. > > > > I am working on a few manuscripts that are in > > various stages of completion.I > > have also started writing another manuscript that > is > > outside of the FMA and > > I plan to finish it by May of 2008. > > > > I am hoping somebody writes the book. I will pass > > the buck. How about it Bot? > > > > APMarinas Sr. > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/15/2007 4:05:36 PM Eastern > > Daylight Time, > > eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > > > > > PG Mat, FWIW, another good source about martial > > arts in Manila > > is Topher Ricketts, who of course trained with > > Tatang, Johnny Chiuten, > > Doc Lengson, kung-fu masters in Chinatown and > other > > martial arts greats. > > As you can imagine, he has many first hand stories > > about martial arts > > shenanigans in Manila. > > > > Just in case you are considering writing a book... > > > > Jay de Leon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's > > free at http://www.aol.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > > Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Building > a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business > gives you all the tools to get online. > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 05:01:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Who's who in FMA history (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #147 - 8 msgs) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For the new generation, it is not known, or at least not known widely, that Carranza Sensei hails from Tanjay, Oriental Negros. I myself only knew this during one of my research trips in Guihulngan. From what I’ve verified thru research at least 3 instructors were ranked and certified to teach in Victorias City, Guihulngan, and Bayawan City. I know there are more but most of the old timers have already died or retired. I just really don’t know how Carranza Sensei passed away. Incidentally, Shorin-ryu is well concentrated in Iloilo, the birthplace of GM Latino Gonzales. That was immediate observation during my various travels to Panay starting in 1996 up to the present. In Bacolod, it’s more Shotokan, directly traceable to Grandmaster Casimiro “Chingi” A. Grandeza, the Father of Karate in Negros,” via the All Japan Karate-do Federation. GM Johnny Chiuten I believe is now in Bantayan Island in Cebu. He serves as one of the consultants for the Cebu Eskrima Society (CES) and was one of the renowned grandmasters who wrote forewords for the book Cebuano Escrima: Beyond the Myth by Dr. Ned R. Nepangue and Celestino “Tinni” Macachor. JAMES U SY JR. CMAS, Inc jay de leon wrote: James: As I posted earlier, my shorin-ryu school was part of Johnny Carranza's Siete Pares confederation. I met him a couple of times during belt testing, the only time other than tournaments that the seven schools actually got together. My belt certificate was issued by the Siete Pares confederation, not by PHICKAJU, probably signed by Johnny Carranza ( I will have to dig it up from my stored archives). Somebody subsequently told me that he eventually also became an NBI agent and was killed in the line of duty during a drug bust. Is this true? PG Mat, FWIW, another good source about martial arts in Manila is Topher Ricketts, who of course trained with Tatang, Johnny Chiuten, Doc Lengson, kung-fu masters in Chinatown and other martial arts greats. As you can imagine, he has many first hand stories about martial arts shenanigans in Manila. Just in case you are considering writing a book... Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com Pananandta@aol.com wrote: James, Great information. I studied Aikido under Sensei Ambrosio Gavileno and shorin ryu from Sensei Latino Gonzales. I would have mentioned that there must have been a great deal of activity in southern Philippines when I was still in the Philippines. Unfortunately, news from southern Philippines during my time did not get to be printed in national newspapers. Most of the things printed in the news was of the unpleasant kind. Perhaps that was the reason why many FMA practitioners from southern Philippines went to Manila to teach - to get more exposure. We cannot really get a complete list of Filipino martial artists of different discipline unless, we go around the country with pen and paper. This will entail a lot of time and cost. But of course, it can happen, if a univeristy gets a financial grant for somebody to make a dedicated study of the subject. Perhaps, a thesis. In the meantime, we just have to be satisfied with your input, my input, Gatpuno's input, Jay's input and others who had given bits and pieces of very important information on the subject. In the process, we are filling up some very blank pages in FMA history. Thanks. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/14/2007 9:50:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Hi PG Mat and Gat Puno Abon, Up to today Manila is still the center of martial arts growth and development in the Philippines largely due to the fact that it is the capital of the country and it serves as a melting pot of various martial traditions. Brazilian Jiu-jitsu was introduced to the Philippines in 2001 via Manila. At about the same time, Capoeira Grupo Manila (CGM), the first Capoeira group in the Philippines, was already in existence. The national governing bodies for various martial sports recognized by the Philippine Olympic Committee (POC) and the Philippine Sports Commission (PSC) such as the Arnis Philippines (Arpi), Muay Association of the Philippines (MAP), Philippine Amateur Judo Association (PAJA), Philippine Karate-do Federation (PKF), Philippine Pencak Silat Association (Philsilat), Philippine Taekwondo Association (PTA), and Wushu Federation of the Philippines (WFP) are based in the NCR. The major governing bodies for traditional aikido (Aikikai) in the country Aikido Philippines, PAPA, Filipino Federation of aikido – all based in Manila. The Ki Association International of former Philippine Ki no Kenkyukai Chief Instructor Ernesto Talag Sensei and the Tapondo Internatioanl Federation Inc. 9TIFI) of founder/Master Ambrosio “Monching” J. Gavileño are also based in Manila. Nevertheless, many of the pioneers in Philippine martial arts came from the provinces among them: Latino Gonzales Sensei (Jaro, iloilo) - Father of Shorin-ryu Karate in the Philippines. Johnny Carranza Sensei of the Siete Pares Karate Association (Tanjay, Oriental Negros) - Philippine action and karate star. GM Casimiro A. Grandeza Bacolod City)- Father of Karate in Negros. Was teaching Karate in the province as early as the 1960s. Also pioneer of Combat judo and Arnis thru his White Kimono. Became the first Filipino to finish a masters’ course in Korea under the moo Duk Kwan of the late GM Hwang Kee and went on to become the first Filipino grandmaster of Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan and the founder/president of the Philippine Moo Duk Kwan Inc.-Korea Tang soo Do Association (PMDKI-KTSDA). Ceferino “Jun” F. Vasquez Sensei (Bacolod City) - Trained intensively in Japan under Nakayama, Masatoshi Sensei, then 9th dan. He brought Sasaki, Kunio Sensei, then 6th dan, to the Philippines as the sole representative of Japan Karate Association (JKA) to the country. Johnny Chuiten (Cebu) - Former president of the Karate Federation of the Philippines (KAFEPHIL), technical consultant of the Chin Wu Athletic Association of the Philippines, and vice president of the Cebu Escrima Association. A prominent figure in Kung Fu, Escrima, and Karate in the early days. Founder of Pronus Supinus. Pancho Villa (Ilog, Negros Occidental) - The first world Wesertn Boxing champion from Asia. Flash Elorde (Cebu) - Great Filipino world Western Boxing champion who also did Balintawak Escrima. Labangon Fencing Club - Pioneer group of escrima in cebu which later evolved into the Doce Pares. Doce Pares - The most established Cebuano FMA organization having been f ounded in 1932 by several Eskrimadores, among them the Saavedras and the Cañetes. GM Remegio “Remy” A. Presas (Hinigaran, negros Occidental) - PE university professor for Judo and Arnis. The first from Negros to write an FMA book. Founder of Presas Style Modern Arnis, the most practiced FMA style in the world. Master Monching Gavileño (Guimaras) - Founde of the first Filipino style of Aikido, Tapondo (a.k.a. Combat Aikido). A Philippine Aikido pioneer. Former member of Aikikai in the Philippines. Founded the Philippine Aikido Sports Association Inc. (PASAI), which was later renamed to the Philippine Combat Aikido Federation (PCAF) in 1992 and then Tapondo International Federation Inc. (TIFI) in 2000 or 2001. Paquit Valencia Sensei (Iloilo City) - One of the first Filipinos to have studied Aikido. Taught Aikido in Guam. Was also an Judo black belt. Passed away with a 4th dan from Aikikai Hombu. Max C. Tian Sensei (Cebu) - Head of Shinshintoitsu Aikido in Cebu. I know I missed out others, particularly in Luzon. I apologize for the shortcoming of the list. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 05:13:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Kali source. To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It would be a great help if you can provide the name of your Guru and his lineage. For sure, the older generation in the States would know him. JAMES "Van Harn, Steve" wrote: Jon Broster wrote: With regard to Guro Inosanto and the names his main teachers used for their art. In "The Filipino Martial Arts", it is clear that a majority of his teachers use either arnis or escrima (or both) but he still chooses to use kali. Cabales - Escrima Ellustrisimo - Escrima Giron - Escrima & Arnis LaCoste - Kali-Escrima-Arnis-Sikaran Largusa & Villabrille - Kali It would, therefore seem reasonable for him to have chosen the term ESCRIMA, but he did not. I have always assumed that this was down to 2 reasons: 1 - he had to call it something, and maybe felt that he liked kali better. 2 - a desire to promote Filipino culture - by choosing the only non-Spanish term. p170 of tFMA reads: "Most Filipino youths born in the United States were told Filipinos had no culture, were ignorant-unclothed savages running around with G-strings and spears, knew no form of government, lacked laws and were uneducated......." Clearly, the balance needs to be redressed and the record set straight. Where better to start than with linguistics? Just to add a small bit to this discussion, my Guru was training in "Kali" in Northern California long before Inosanto's book ever came out. We discussed this over the weekend. His Guru would alternately call it Kali, Silat, Kuntao and a few other names that don't immediately come to mind yet. This would be the very early '60s and his Guru never trained anyone but his son and my Guru and did not "mix" with any other Guros in the States. My point is, any name references he used would have came over with him from Jolo in the late '30s. Steve _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 05:15:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Crane Style of Arnis de Mano? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bangaw is Ilonggo slang for “eat. Same as dada, udak...all slang. bgdebuque wrote: Hi! Surprisingly, it seems that "Binakaw" sounds very similar to the name of the crane-style Silat - "Bangaw". Was the style fully-developed indigenously in Laguna, or does it partially trace its lineage to other foreign crane styles [eg. Silat Bangaw, Southern White Crane Kung Fu, etc.]? > Message: 3 > From: GatPuno@aol.com > Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:52:30 EDT > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Crane Style of Arnis de Mano? > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > In regards of the "Crane Style of Arnis, Eskrima, Estokada". The Crane > style > is one of the famous style of Arnis in Laguna called "Binakaw" is sub > system > that we used, and one of the strongest fighting style in Largo mano style > (Long > Range), that we teach in our brand of Largo Mano. Basically the Binakaw > is > always part of the Siete Colores Arnis de Mano. Many GM called their art > Siete > Pares Arnis, Siete Palo, Siete Stilo, Laban Tulisan,, Pitong Patama, > Pitong > Taga, Numerado Pito at Pito-pito Eskrima. > > In my particular Siete Colores, we follow the original pattern of the 10 > Maestro that I studied with under, with is start with (1) Bantay > Salakay(Guard > and > attack), (2) Kalong Salikop (Carry and Catch), (3) Tukang Binakaw (Crane > Attack), (4) Silong Labuyo (Trapping Wild Rooster), (5) Harang sa Parang > (Block > the fields), (6)Sunong-sunong (shade and shade), and (7) Patutok Pana > (Point > and Thrust). > > Striking in Siete Colores Arnis varies per Maestro, but the Common stikes > is > (1)Buhat Araw (Blow from the sun), (2) Tagang Alanganin (Cutting to the > middle), (3)Aldabis (Upward hook slash), (4)Bartikal (Backhand > down-sideward > slash), > (5) Saboy sabukay (Splash and upward cut), (6) Pugot ulo (head cutting) > and > (7) Saka (digging attacks) or thrust. > > The uniqueness of the style all of the position, like Fighting Stances, > Strikes, and Defensive movement has particular named. To somewhat is easy > for > the > practitioner to remember the meaning and technical usage of each. Easy to > teach and easy to absorb, now the hardest part of the style is to apply, > this > where we "burned" our time, in playful sparring, sparring, and more > sparring, > perfecting each position of attack and defense. The only thing that we > are > different that the others, Siete Colores has not force you to block, the > teaching is force you to avoid instead of block and strike. They consider > that > as a > waste of movements, but I classify that in my particular style now is > defend > to the situation. I used Sumbrada, sometimes known as Payong, Sunong, and > Pandong all of them meaning shades, If the timing off to strike > on-coming > attack is already half way there, I basically taeaches to cover first > before > attacking. But this is my father and I interpreatation. A lots of the > Maestro > is > not allowing you to block at all, they force you to used your skills in > footwork, body mechanic, and bantay kamay (hand guard) and more body > techniques to > avoid getting struck by his strike. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 05:19:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Inosanto and Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I’m disappointed that the discussion is going off course again, away from the meaning and origin of Kali, but nevertheless, I’ll have to point out some things. “The main reason why it is very hard for modern-day Filipinos to define Their national identity is that they often fail or refuse to recognize the Fact that modern Filipino culture has actually 4 pillar cultures - Malay, Spanish, American and Chinese:” Who said Filipinos don’t recognize the mixture of their culture? Filipinos live their Malay culture and Spanish upbringing. Filipinos uses technology like an American. Filipinos do business like the Chinese. I know because I’m a Filipino living in the Philippines. Although the Spaniards introduced the Roman Catholic to the Philippines, the faith is not Spanish in origin. The Philippine Political System differs from that of the US, which is Federal in nature. You can’t generalize Filipino Music as primarily American because the industry has an abundance of Original Filipino Music (OPM), not to mention modern regional novelty songs from the Ilonggos, Cebuanos, etc. The Philippines is the 3rd largest English speaking nation in the world next to the USA and GB. The Chinese heritage has been with the Filipinos even before the Spaniards. “…because present-day Malay culture has not reached the same heights as the Malay empires of old - SriVisaya and Madjapahit.” Why can you say that? Are you Malay? Have you lived in the Philippines? Just curious. Such statement must have a basis. “The effort of prominent Filipinos like Dan Inosanto to reach back to Our Malay heritage is, therefore, a truly admirable endeavor - and should not be wrongly construed as an effort to emphasize the ascendance of Malay-named FMA styles over those which have Hispanized or Americanized names ("FMA" itself is an Americanized term).” Bgdebuque we all know that patriotism is no excuse to revise the beloved yet chaotic history of the Filipino people. You yourself is starting to rewrite our history without a good grasp of our very culture. “To those Filipinos who want to "reconnect" to their Malay roots, the Best advice I can give, based on my own experience, is to visit the Surviving cultural monuments of the Malay empires of old near the city of Jogjakarta in Central Java -Borobodur (Buddhist) and Prambanan (Hindu) temples.” Bgdebuque, I suggest you go to the Philippines and experience FMA as it is practiced in RP, the birthplace of the art itself. You don’t go to India or Indonesia to study FMA, do you? bgdebuque wrote: The main reason why it is very hard for modern-day Filipinos to define their national identity is that they often fail or refuse to recognize the fact that modern Filipino culture has actually 4 pillar cultures - Malay, Spanish, American and Chinese: Physical Appearance - primarily Malay but with significant traces of Spanish and Chinese features Religion - primarily Spanish (Catholicism) but also with significant Malay (Islam) and American (Protestantism) presence Education - primarily American Legal System - primarily American but with significant Spanish influence Music - primarily American but with significant traces of Spanish and Malay influence Political System - primarily American but with traces of Malay influence ( e.g. despotism)...........=[:->] Language - primarily Malay and American but with significant traces of Spanish and Chinese influence Cuisine - primarily Spanish but with significant traces of Malay and Chinese influence While it is quite easy to take pride on our American, Spanish, and lately, Chinese heritage, it is not quite easy to take pride on our Malay heritage because present-day Malay culture has not reached the same heights as the Malay empires of old - SriVisaya and Madjapahit. The Islamization of the centers of Malay culture - Java and Sumatra and the Christianization of most of the Philippine Islands also created a religious wedge between the majority of Filipinos on one side and the majority of Indonesians and Malaysians on the other side. The effort of prominent Filipinos like Dan Inosanto to reach back to our Malay heritage is, therefore, a truly admirable endeavor - and should not be wrongly construed as an effort to emphasize the ascendance of Malay-named FMA styles over those which have Hispanized or Americanized names ("FMA" itself is an Americanized term). To those Filipinos who want to "reconnect" to their Malay roots, the best advice I can give, based on my own experience, is to visit the surviving cultural monuments of the Malay empires of old near the city of Jogjakarta in Central Java - Borobodur (Buddhist) and Prambanan (Hindu) temples. As I stood on top of Borobodur in 1996, it immediately dawned on me that there is no way that these could have been built almost 1,200 years ago by "ignorant unclothed savages running around with G-strings"..... =[:->] Here is what Wikipedia says on Borobodur and Prambanan: "It is likely Borobudur was founded around *AD 800* This conforms with the period between AD 760–830, the peak of the *Sailendra dynasty* in Central Java, when it was under the influence of the *Srivijayan Empire*. The construction is estimated to have taken 75 years and was completed in 825, during the reign of Srivijayan Maharaja *Samaratunga. *There is confusion between *Hindu *and *Buddhist* rulers in *Java* around that time. The Sailendras are known as ardent followers of Lord Buddha, although stone inscriptions found at *Sojomerto* suggest they were Hindus. It was during this time that many Hindu and Buddhist monuments were built on the plains and mountain around the Kedu Plain. The Buddhist monuments, including Borobudur, were erected around the same time as the Hindu *Shiva* *Prambanan * temple compound. In AD 732, king *Sanjaya*, the founder of the Sailendra dynasty, commissioned a Hindu Shiva *lingga* sanctuary to be built on the Ukir hill, only 10 km (6.2 miles) east of Borobudur. Sanjaya's immediate successor, *Rakai Panangkaran*, was associated with a Buddhist *Kalasan*temple, as shown in the Kalasan Charter>dated AD 778. *Anthropologists* believe that religion in Java has never been a serious conflict. It was possible for a Hindu king to patronize the establishment of a Buddhist monument; or for a Buddhist king to act likewise. The official religion could take place without affecting the continuity of a dynasty and of cultural life. > I have always assumed that this was down to 2 reasons: > 1 - he had to call it something, and maybe felt that he liked kali better. > 2 - a desire to promote Filipino culture - by choosing the only > non-Spanish term. > p170 of tFMA reads: > "Most Filipino youths born in the United States were told Filipinos had no > culture, were ignorant-unclothed savages running around with G-strings and > spears, knew no form of government, lacked laws and were uneducated......." > > Clearly, the balance needs to be redressed and the record set straight. > Where better to start than with linguistics? > > Jon _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. 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