Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 02:58:28 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #159 - 20 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Binakaw Eskrima/Bakaw Eskrima (bgdebuque) 2. Re: Re: Making your own training knives (Ray) 3. Re: Kali - Indonesian Term (Ray) 4. Kali (Stephen Lamade) 5. Re: Ilonggo Bastonero (bgdebuque) 6. Re: Another Indian connection... (bgdebuque) 7. Re: Re: Making your own training knives (MITZI GALLAGHER) 8. Contribution to FMA history book (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #158 - 14 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 9. FMA & MA in Negros (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #158 - 14 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 10. Pigafetta translations on weaponry (Federico Malibago) 11. (axes) Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #158 - 14 msgs (Pananandta@aol.com) 12. FMA Dead?! (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #158 - 14 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 13. Martial Arts/Artists in the Phil (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #156 - 8 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 14. Re: Martial Arts/Artists in the Phil (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #156 - 8 msgs) (jay de leon) 15. Re: Contribution to FMA history book (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #158 - 14 msgs) (jay de leon) 16. Binakaw/Bangaw. (GatPuno@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 15:51:44 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Binakaw Eskrima/Bakaw Eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The Indonesian name for a crane/heron/egret is "Bangaw". Some would spell that as "Bangau", "Bangao", "Bangu" or "Bango".... As I remember it, Indonesians and Malaysians too claim that their crane-style was developed indigenously. Have you published anything on the style? Do you include it in your seminars? I am definitely interested in attending if you are going to conduct one in the US Northeast. >I only heard"Binakaw" in Laguna, the Binakaw is adopted word from "Bakaw" >meaning Crane. Bangaw to us in Tagalog it means large flies. >So I believed that only exist in our Area in Laguna it's a particular style >from Lumban, Laguna. >Louisiana, and Majayjay seems like not using the names, Magdalena ang other >town is not using the term also. Paete and Lumban, Laguna usaes them, but it >would be noted also that on 1616, Paete is only a barrio of Lumban, Laguna. >Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet >Garimot Arnis Training Group International >Laguna Arnis Federation International >US Harimaw Buno Federation >Hilot Research Center USA >Tel. 954-432-4433 >www.garimot.com >In a message dated 5/18/07 6:05:49 AM, >eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > Hi! Surprisingly, it seems that "Binakaw" sounds very similar to the name > of the crane-style Silat - "Bangaw". > > Was the style fully-developed indigenously in Laguna, or does it partially > trace its lineage to other foreign crane styles [eg. Silat > Bangaw, Southern White Crane Kung Fu, etc.]? --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Making your own training knives To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 13:30:39 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Speaking of hand making training knives, I have a student who is a very good > woodworker, and makes exceptional, finely crafted wooden training weapons. > He makes his stuff out of hickory and a South American wood called Purple > Heart, which is incredibly durable (we haven't been able to dent it yet, let > alone break one) while remaining pleasantly lightweight, and is a beautifully > grained wood as well. I have a Serrada baston and a couple of training > daggers, and I absolutely love them and recommend them to anyone who is looking for > a tough hardwood weapon that you can actually practice with. In the very > near future, Brandon is going to try reproducing the weapons in aluminum as well > as the hickory and Purple Heart weapons he is currently working with. If > anyone is interested, write to me for pictures and a price list. I've heard good things about purple heart. Of course baki is still my favorite, but I hear that purple heart is excellent. Does Brandon have a website or ?? somewhere of the hardwood weapons he makes? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali - Indonesian Term To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 13:35:04 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > According to my Guro Dan Inosanto the word Kali is a combination of the > words Kamot Lihot - move of the hand. (Please excuse if wrong spelled!) > That is what he personally told me! Did he cite a source? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Stephen Lamade" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 21:33:08 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Kali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kali = Pepsi Best, Steve Lamade _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 17:55:13 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Ilonggo Bastonero Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Manong Jorge, Since you are from Iloilo, perhaps you can shed light on the particular FMA Style of an Ilonggo "bastonero" who was quite popular in the backyard stickfighting schools in Iloilo City's waterfront in the early 1970s. As I remember it, his name is Siong Jalique of Don Esteban, Lapuz. Thanks in advance for any info. Bill >Message: 10 >From: "Jorge Penafiel" >To: >Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 13:34:49 -0400 >Subject: [Eskrima] FMA History >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Mert will be glad to lend a hand with my insistence and twist of his arm (torsi in Ilongo). >Regards to UP Dileman and friends there. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 18:35:06 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Another Indian connection... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'm sorry James, but the largest English-speaking nation in the world would be India... 2nd is the US, 3rd is Pakistan, 4th is the Philippines, the UK would only be the 5th... =[:->] >The Philippines is the 3rd largest English speaking nation in the world next to the USA and GB. Let's just say I belong to the generation whose textbooks in Elementary School included the book "Jose Rizal: Pride of the Malay Race". I was also forced to read in school Quirino's award-winning book: "Jose Rizal: The Great Malayan".... =[:->] >Why can you say that? Are you Malay? Have you lived in the Philippines? Just curious. Such >statement must have a basis. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "MITZI GALLAGHER" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Making your own training knives Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 19:01:14 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, could you please send me some info and pics on these . Randy Gallagher ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 2:53 PM Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Making your own training knives > Hi all, > Speaking of hand making training knives, I have a student who is a very > good > woodworker, and makes exceptional, finely crafted wooden training > weapons. > He makes his stuff out of hickory and a South American wood called Purple > Heart, which is incredibly durable (we haven't been able to dent it yet, > let > alone break one) while remaining pleasantly lightweight, and is a > beautifully > grained wood as well. I have a Serrada baston and a couple of training > daggers, and I absolutely love them and recommend them to anyone who is > looking for > a tough hardwood weapon that you can actually practice with. In the very > near future, Brandon is going to try reproducing the weapons in aluminum > as well > as the hickory and Purple Heart weapons he is currently working with. If > anyone is interested, write to me for pictures and a price list. > > Kim Satterfield > Midwest School of Eskrima > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 19:50:00 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Contribution to FMA history book (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #158 - 14 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Jorge, I am sure you can contribute something. If there is any demonstration/competition in your area on the martial arts, you can record the sponsor's name, location of event, number of competitors (approximately), highest ranking martial artist in attendance, schools represented, styles represented and other related information. Several photos will help freeze the event for martial artists to look at and read about in some future time. If there is a local newspaper in your area, they will be only too glad to publish a short account of what could be "the only game in town". Our ancestors did not do the above. That is why, we have very little to read about them. And by the way, don't twist too hard. Best. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/20/2007 4:00:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Hiyaahh Bot,,,sali sa rambolan but don't what I could contribute though!! Physical Education was my favorite subject in school, kamote sa history - too many names, dates, and events to put to my brain memory file then even up to this day. Overloaded and low battery for whatever brain cells I still have functioning,,,,hehehe. Really though, there is one more person "Mert Altares" worthy for sure that can contribute much on this endeavor. A good friend, works with the Deans Office of King Fahd U. of Petroleum in Dharan, SA. He is from Antique but now resides in Taralc city, an avid historrian, writer, and also an MA officionado. He boggles my kahonas with his history knowledge of FMA. Same goes with ED brothers (Ray, Jay, A. Ercia, Abon Baet, James Sy, AP Marinas Sr., etc. who are puts time and effort to say/write interesting and new FMA knowledge by far to me. Many thanks!! Mert will be glad to lend a hand with my insistence and twist of his arm ( torsi in Ilongo). Regards to UP Dileman and friends there. Jorge Penafiel ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 19:58:27 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA & MA in Negros (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #158 - 14 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi James, Good news about your plan to write a book. I am hoping that it is "Today, Negros" and "Tomorrow, Beyond Negros." Good luck! Best. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/20/2007 4:00:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: I’m planning a book that will document FMA and MA in Negros. Every time, you hear the Presas name :p. Of course, this is not to say that there are no other Arnisadors in Hinigaran, only that the Presas brothers are the most popular and well known. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 19:04:52 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Federico Malibago To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Pigafetta translations on weaponry Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ok, I realize not everyone on the list is a historian, but just wanted to point out that there needs to be alot of care when looking at translated works for evidence. As anyone who knows or speaks more than one language, they know that translation is often more an artform than a hard replacement of foreign words with familiar words. So when a translator comes to a word or phrase that may be un-common or untranslatable in the language they are trying to translate to, then often they have to bridge the gap, so to speak, with their own knowledge of the culture and the manner in which they think the word is being used. This is very much a component in reading, particularly English translations of Pigafettas work. As I am sure many have experienced reading different translations of his work, many have probably noticed that depending on the translator, different words were used. Furthermore, there were a number of original publications/editions of his work when he originally published them, that contained different versions of the story (some more slight than others) depending on which audience he was trying to reach (e.g. writing an official account for a king vs a more mass publication for people). So unless you have an original copy of his work, you cannot definitively say one way or the other that this word is this or that. Even if you had an original, there may still be discrepencies between which version you have, was it written for a king or for mass publication, etc... So when there is a conflict in secondary material (e.g. translations or interpretations) usually the norm is to look at the primary material (e.g. the untranslated work), which of course is difficult for those of us with limited access to such material or who cannot read the original untranslated text (the period untranslated text). I guess this isnt a big deal, but it is something to be aware of. Are you pinning your argument on the real work, or a translators interpretation? Gumagalang Federico Malibago --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 20:17:14 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] (axes) Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #158 - 14 msgs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Pugil, I checked out the website and I found a lot of good information in it. I enjoyed reading it. I do a lot of background reading when I write my manuscripts and I am sure I will be able to use the info/ax I read about. Thanks for the reference. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/20/2007 4:00:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: These people make damn fine axes, including a throwing axe: http://www.gransfors.com/htm_eng/index.html Pugil ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 20:28:43 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA Dead?! (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #158 - 14 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi James, I heard the same thing said about the FMA in the early 1970's when I was already living in the US - that it was a dying art. However, "the deader they pronounce it", "the more aliver it becomes". Regards. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/20/2007 4:00:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: The Philippines indeed just have too many problems. What’s worse there are those who claim that FMA is dead in the Philippines. Does that mean that what all the Filipino FMAers are doing including the WEKAF, Doce Pares, Balintawak, Bakbakan, Arnis Philippines, PIGSAI, IMAFP, IPMAF, IFFMAS, Original Filipino Tapado, Pekiti Tirsia, Garimot Arnis, Dumog, Bultong, Yaw Yan, Sikaran, Silat, Kuntao/Kuntaw, etc. is dead? Funny world. JAMES ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 20:51:56 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Martial Arts/Artists in the Phil (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #156 - 8 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Bot, James, Jay (alphabetically:-)), My background reading material on the martial arts in the Philippines have grown dramatically. I have saved your input in my computer and will create a database so I can sort the database in a number of ways for some specific info I might need. I might ask you some specifics as I go along to make the database as complete as I can. Thanks again. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/20/2007 10:28:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Hi PG Mat and EDers, On a more recent note, here are some more notable martial artists from the provinces (not necessarily FMA): R. Jun Batobalani Shihan (Urdaneta City) - Founder of Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines. The highest ranking Aikido instructor in the world recognized by Aikikai Hombu (Tokyo, Japan) at 6th dan black belt. Alvin Aguilar (Negros Occidental/Manila) - Premier propagator of Brazilian Jiu-jitsu in the Philippines and founder of the Universal Reality Combat Championship (URCC) champion. The pioneer in promoting Philippine Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) competition. Mark Sangiao (Baguio City) - SEA Games Wushu Sanshou champion and Universal Reality Combat Championship (URCC) champion. Glenn Sumanoy (Dumaguete City) - Universal Reality Combat Championship (URCC) champion. Rene Catalan (Iloilo City) - World Wushu Sanshou champion. Monsour del Rosario (Bacolod City) - 6 times Philippine lightweight Taekwondo champion, once rated in Asia and the world, Philippine cinema action star. John Baylon (Binalbagan) - 7 times SEA Games Judo champion. Ramon S. Franco Shihan (Tacloban City) - Head of Judges Council of the Philippine Karate-do federation (PKF). Manny Pacquiao (General Santos) - World and international Western Boxing champion. ALA Stable (Cebu) - Produces many of the best Western boxers (champions) from the Philippines. Jimrex Jaca (Sibulan) - Philippine super featherweight Western Boxing champion. Former Orient Pacific Boxing Federation (OPBF) super bantamweight champion. Rexon Flores (Cadiz City) - WBO Asia Pacific flyweight champion. Mansueto “Onyok” Velasco (Bago City) - 1996 Atlanta Western Boxing silver medallist. Roel Velasco (Bago City) - Olympics bronze medallist. Mitchell Martinez (Pulupandan) - First Asian women’s Western boxing champion from the Philippines. Joan Tipon (Talisay City) - 23rd SEA Games Western Boxing champion. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 19:46:01 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Martial Arts/Artists in the Phil (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #156 - 8 msgs) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Re alphabetically, I am just honored to share equal star billing with such men of letters and the martial arts.-) Just let me know if I can be of assistance in any literary endeavor. A co-star billing will not be a requisite. -) Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com Pananandta@aol.com wrote: Hi Bot, James, Jay (alphabetically:-)), My background reading material on the martial arts in the Philippines have grown dramatically. I have saved your input in my computer and will create a database so I can sort the database in a number of ways for some specific info I might need. I might ask you some specifics as I go along to make the database as complete as I can. Thanks again. APMarinas Sr. --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 19:56:17 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Contribution to FMA history book (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #158 - 14 msgs) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Master Jorge: Hindi ito rambolan ng fraternity. (This is not a fraternity rumble.) But you do have a lot of stories about early martial arts in Iloilo and Manila (well, at least U.P. in Quezon City). Did you say your friend Mert Altares now lives in Tarlac City, in the province of Tarlac? That is only about an hour and a half away from my hometown of Binmaley, Pangasinan. Maybe you can ask him if he wants to exchange emails with us. Salamat po, Jay de Leon www.tipunan.com Pananandta@aol.com wrote: Hi Jorge, I am sure you can contribute something. If there is any demonstration/competition in your area on the martial arts, you can record the sponsor's name, location of event, number of competitors (approximately), highest ranking martial artist in attendance, schools represented, styles represented and other related information. Several photos will help freeze the event for martial artists to look at and read about in some future time. If there is a local newspaper in your area, they will be only too glad to publish a short account of what could be "the only game in town". Our ancestors did not do the above. That is why, we have very little to read about them. And by the way, don't twist too hard. Best. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/20/2007 4:00:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Hiyaahh Bot,,,sali sa rambolan but don't what I could contribute though!! Physical Education was my favorite subject in school, kamote sa history - too many names, dates, and events to put to my brain memory file then even up to this day. Overloaded and low battery for whatever brain cells I still have functioning,,,,hehehe. Really though, there is one more person "Mert Altares" worthy for sure that can contribute much on this endeavor. A good friend, works with the Deans Office of King Fahd U. of Petroleum in Dharan, SA. He is from Antique but now resides in Taralc city, an avid historrian, writer, and also an MA officionado. He boggles my kahonas with his history knowledge of FMA. Same goes with ED brothers (Ray, Jay, A. Ercia, Abon Baet, James Sy, AP Marinas Sr., etc. who are puts time and effort to say/write interesting and new FMA knowledge by far to me. Many thanks!! Mert will be glad to lend a hand with my insistence and twist of his arm ( torsi in Ilongo). Regards to UP Dileman and friends there. Jorge Penafiel ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 16 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 00:35:32 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Binakaw/Bangaw. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kapatid Jay, I just got back afrom St. Louis Seminar. Anyway, the Binakaw (Crane Style) of Eskrima is pure Filipino. No Chinese, or other influence. And to add more on the meaning "Bangaw" if pronounce "Bang-aw" its means "Crazy". Okay kapatid Jay, I get back to the list tomorrow, I have to get some rest. Gat Puno Abon > Kapatid Abon: >    >   Kumusta?  Good to see you post regularly again. >    >   Yes, I chuckled when I saw "bangaw" which is of course >   no crane. >    >   So it appears only Paete and Lumban have this crane >   style, but I believe the poster also asks, did the creator >   of this form or style create it independently on his own >   (presumably seeing a crane fight), or was he influenced >   by some silat or kung-fu crane form or style that he saw >   or even knew? >    >   Salamat, kapatid. >    >   Jay de Leon >   www.filipinofightingartsintl.com > Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest