Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 02:58:26 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #160 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: GM Presas (james jr. sy) 2. RE: Kali Source (Van Harn, Steve) 3. The NEW www.WEKAFUSA.org - UNIFYING FMA (francis@wekafusa.org) 4. Re: The NEW www.WEKAFUSA.org - UNIFYING FMA (Ray) 5. RE: Another Indian connection... (Wieneke, Myron) 6. Kali - Indonesian Term ? (Mark Harrell) 7. Kali term (Mark Harrell) 8. Kali Term (Mark Harrell) 9. ED Bests!! (Jorge Penafiel) 10. Binakaw/Bango (gatpuno@aol.com) 11. Re: RE: Kali Source (Ray) 12. RE: Binakaw/Bango (McTaggart, Ryan P) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 05:42:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] GM Presas To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Mr. jay, Consider your wish done (re: message, piccture) good sir. I'll be in Hinigaran tommorrow, good timing :) I'll print your message and give a copy to him. I'll see if I still have files of some news items I have written about him in the local news. I'll keep in touch. JAMES U. SY JR. CMAS, Inc. jay de leon wrote: James: First, thanks for the info and update, Glad to hear that GM Berting is well and still active in arnis. At the end of the 3rd FMA Festival in Manila last year, some participants flew to Hinigaran to pay their respects to the Presases, both living and dead. I am not sure if they were able to contact GM Berting, but I was not able to make the trip due to a previous commitment. Yes, please send a message. He and I belong to a common organization, the International Modern Arnis Federation of the Phil (IMAFP) but he would not know me from Adam. Just say a Modern Arnis guro in the U,S, who knew and loved Remy sends his regards and respect, and to let him know that he (GM Roberto) is admired, loved and respected by many arnisadors here in the United States. As a final favor, I do not even have a current picture of GM Berting. If you can take one and email me that picture or pictures, I will publish it in my websites and be forever grateful to you. Maraming salamat po. Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com "james jr. sy" wrote: Hello, Mr Jay, GM Roberto "Berting" Presas is very well good Sir. His organization, the Philippine Arnis Hinigaran Association (PAHA), was one of the 10 martial arts organizations who participated in the 1st Himaya-an Festival Martial Arts Expo last April 23, 2007 at the Himamaylan City Gym, Himamaylan City, Negros Occidental (about 1 hour, 45 minutes away from Bacolod City). 5 member organizations of the Intercontinental Federation of Filipino Martial Arts Schools (IFFMAS) were among those who participated. Me and my group, the Conceptual Martial Arts (CMAS), Inc., took an active part in the demonstration of the Original Filipino Tapado Long Stick Fighting Association (OFTLSFA), Inc. under 1st Gen. Inheritor GM Benefredo “Bebing” M. Lobrido and the Kalantiaw Defense Society (KDS) of Grandmaster Dominador “Doming” D. Ferrer. Anyway, GM Presas was assisted by Mr. Dela Cruz and students from at least two schools (kids and teeners). GM Presas invited me for lunch last April 30, 2007 but I didn’t make it. Got work. It was their town’s fiesta and GM Ernesto “Erning” A. Presas was there too with the foreigners who attended his biannual (I think 10th) Kombatan Training Camp in Hinigaran. The Presas brothers are known FMA figures in Hinigaran. When I started going to the town because of work related assignments, I asked around for FMA. I’m planning a book that will document FMA and MA in Negros. Every time, you hear the Presas name :p. Of course, this is not to say that there are no other Arnisadors in Hinigaran, only that the Presas brothers are the most popular and well known. GM Roberto, in previous conversations, never fails to acknowledge his brother GM Remy Presas every time we talk of Modern Arnis. He said, GM Ernesto uses the name Kombatan, but it’s still Presas Style. I might be able to drop by Hinigaran this week or the following week. Would you like to send a message to GM Roberto? James U. Sy Jr. Conceptual Martial Arts (CMAS), Inc. --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:10:17 -0500 From: "Van Harn, Steve" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Kali Source Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Kali source. It would be a great help if you can provide the name of your Guru and his lineage. For sure, the older generation in the States would know him. JAMES "Van Harn, Steve" wrote: Just to add a small bit to this discussion, my Guru was training in "Kali" in Northern California long before Inosanto's book ever came out. We discussed this over the weekend. His Guru would alternately call it Kali, Silat, Kuntao and a few other names that don't immediately come to mind yet. This would be the very early '60s and his Guru never trained anyone but his son and my Guru and did not "mix" with any other Guros in the States. My point is, any name references he used would have came over with him from Jolo in the late '30s._______________________________________________ Reply: Well, it is highly unlikely but I suppose possible. My understanding is he did not get around much. My Guru's name is Mushtaq Ali al Ansari and he trained in his teens with Guru Julaluddin Abdalsalaam and his son Rasheed. Guru (our honorific, no titles back then) Abdaldalaam emigrated with his wife to the United States before WWII (which by serving in obtained his citizenship). He was raised by a successful merchant family in Jolo and was trained the Kris and knife essentially from the time he was able to hold them. Steve --__--__-- Message: 3 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 7:29:00 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] The NEW www.WEKAFUSA.org - UNIFYING FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Please come see the new and improved WEKAFUSA site. Now the largest and most well respected Filipino Martial Arts orginazation now has a brand new website. With new features such as INSURANCE for School Members, discount on WEKAF approved Armor, and for New Members sign up NOW and the late fees are waived. www.WEKAFUSA.org - UNIFYING FMA Peace Love Stickfighting, Francis T.B. Serrano francis@wekafusa.org "WEKAFUSA.org- UNIFYING FMA" --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The NEW www.WEKAFUSA.org - UNIFYING FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 07:56:17 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Please come see the new and improved WEKAFUSA site. Now the largest and > most well respected Filipino Martial Arts orginazation now has a brand new > website. > > www.WEKAFUSA.org - UNIFYING FMA How are you related to the older www.wekaf.com? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Wieneke, Myron" To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Another Indian connection... Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:16:06 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Where did you get your figures? I don't think your rankings are correct, I attended some training on "Doing business in india", the percent of the population that is english speaking/english educated is still smaller than the entire population of the US. In fact, indians themselves say this. http://www.delhicall.com/why-india.html Also this is the first time I've ever heard of Pakistan being mentioned as one of the largest english speaking nation, the Philippines has always been quoted as a second or third largest english speaking nation. According to the CIA website, english is the language of the "Pakistani elite and most government ministries" and combined with other minor languages, comprises only 8% of the pakistani population. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/pk.html Myron -----Original Message----- From: bgdebuque [mailto:bgdebuque@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 6:35 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Another Indian connection... I'm sorry James, but the largest English-speaking nation in the world would be India... 2nd is the US, 3rd is Pakistan, 4th is the Philippines, the UK would only be the 5th... =[:->] >The Philippines is the 3rd largest English speaking nation in the world next to the USA and GB. Let's just say I belong to the generation whose textbooks in Elementary School included the book "Jose Rizal: Pride of the Malay Race". I was also forced to read in school Quirino's award-winning book: "Jose Rizal: The Great Malayan".... =[:->] >Why can you say that? Are you Malay? Have you lived in the Philippines? Just curious. Such >statement must have a basis. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ============================================================================== Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.credit-suisse.com/legal/en/disclaimer_email_ib.html ============================================================================== --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Mark Harrell" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:58:15 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Kali - Indonesian Term ? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guro Inosanto probably got that particular definition of Kali from GM Ben Largusa who has used that Kamut Lihok definition for many years. Another term I think Guro Inosanto has used is Kalis. Mark ****************************************************************** Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali - Indonesian Term > According to my Guro Dan Inosanto the word Kali is a combination of the > words Kamot Lihot - move of the hand. (Please excuse if wrong spelled!) > That is what he personally told me! >>Did he cite a source? >>Ray Terry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best Web mail—award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Mark Harrell" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 17:26:21 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Kali term Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Anyone attempting to define the term Kali does not add to the confusion, rather they contribute to the movement in the direction of clarity or at least in the direction of investigation and further research. I continue to enjoy the many posts that offer real clarity of language use and written documentation of any kind. I think the real issue with the term Kali is that many people do not like "claims" made by certain groups. However, please keep in mind the fact that NOT all groups who choose to use the term Kali have made the claims that many find offensive or untrue in their minds. I am interested in intelligently researched and presented information that provides information and resources so that I can further my education on the subject and make up my on mind. Peace be with you, Mark   **************************************************************** >>Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 05:35:25 -0700 (PDT) >>From: "james jr. sy" >>Subject: Re: Kali - Indonesian Term >>Sure, Kali means everything.  Better go check Europe, there's also Kali there or >>maybe the Arctic. :)     >>The more you add to the Kali confusion, the easier it is to prove that it is >>not what it is claimed to be.      >>Good luck on the witchhunt     ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best Web mail—award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Mark Harrell" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 17:42:21 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Kali Term Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello James, The question that I bring up in my previous post is that perhaps Kali has roots that are not Filipino in origin. This may be in part why there seems to be a shortage of evidance to the origin of Kali in the Philippines and almost no support for the use of the term in the Philippines. The other interesting point mentioned was that the term describes the nature and characteristics of the art. This is pretty common practice in South East Asia. Thank you for the humor about the death matches or challenges... : ) Peace be with you, Mark ********************************************************************** >>Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 05:14:37 -0700 (PDT) >>From: "james jr. sy" >>Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali - Indonesian Term >>To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>Hi Mark,       >>The "An English - Indonesian Dictionary" lists River “Kali,” not FMA “Kali.”    >>There is indeed a river in India called Kali.  The Kali river is just that, a >>river, and not a martial art.    >>The characteristics of water that were explained are the same as those written >>by Bruce Lee in his JKD books and taught by the Chinese in Taosim for thousands >>of years.       >>The wavy design of the kris is for better slicing more than anything else.      >> Don’t worry Mark, if somebody challenges you, you have the privilege of >>dictating that the fight be done in a river (just make sure your challenger >>doesn’t know how to swim hehehe see how a Filipino thinks?) :p  Just joking.          >>Be sure too that there’s no fair maiden bathing in the river least you fight >>over her instead of the challenge J       >>JAMES ------------------------------------------------------------------------ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Jorge Penafiel" To: Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:48:50 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] ED Bests!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net AP Marinas,, Greetings Sir, will do what you said. In our neck of the woods here in Ohio and tri-state area, FMA has small presence, demos and tournaments are not that many, but certainly some notes can be put to mind about our art here in the mid-west. Guess this will kind of serve precedence towards the spread/acceptance of the art from PI to america's heartland and or elsewhere. Thanks for waking-up my kahonas from sleep mode. === Jay,,, Shoot kala ko rambolan uli (thought it's rumble time again) - not !! Really, delighted to be mentioned by Bot in his FMA book writting quest. Be good,,I got stories to tell but not history facts,,maybe there's bits and pieces of FMA connection. Real street stuffs back then when we as teeners have pea size brain!! Glad to have survived those testosterone filled and machoness caper early days. Lots of Life lessons learned and burried as well. Just emailed Mert Altares sa Saudi to connect with you. Yeah, his family resides in Tarlac City, Tarlac. Wife Josie works for Don Bosco Tarlac. Malapit sa bayan mo ( close to your hometown). Starting the Holy week, he goes home for his month vacation and then hooks up with GM B. Salinas whenever he's got time to train and visit.. ++ Musta Bill !! Yeah, Ilongo but left loilo long time ago, ~ 1965 to move to Manila. I'll ask Mert and/or James if they have any info on "Siong Jalique" and his system. Lapuz, is about 30 minutes walk from our house in LaPaz.. Be interesting to know my kababayan (townmate) and his exploits. ++= Bot,,, Ayos (OK) lang!! I'll see what I can do backspacing any FMA history stored in my memory bytes..I may have a chance to visit pinas and Iloilo next year ~ may/08 for our High School reunion. Maybe then, I can dig some buried notes from the past regarding Iloilo Bastoneros. Hey,,if you get the chance,,please connect with Joselito Azarcon, UP College of Engineering. A HS classmate which I hope to see in 08. OK?? === Ray,,,from my heart I thank you!! +++ You Guys are the bests!! Jorge Penafiel --__--__-- Message: 10 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:15:45 -0400 From: gatpuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Binakaw/Bango Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, the word "Bango" to us Filipino is smell good. Well, in regards of if I published anything on "Binakaw'? The answer is "No" but I do teach the Stances since is part of the GAT curricullum in Cinco Teros and Siete Colores Arnis. One should understand the whole series of different animal we used in Arnis. Binakaw"Crane Style" usually the counterpart of the "Labuyo" Wild Rooster Style. This the two major animal we used on Arnis, its weard because only seems like "Laguna" only used the Animal Style of Arnis. means Technically not just name. Dont be cofused with other Eskrima Group that used animal, just a name as choice of name. Anyway, I have to put some thought on your question, is not bad if I can published the different Animal style in "Laguna" but I need the blessing of the remaining Grandmaster there before I can start working of that. I will keep you posted. Salamat, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ------- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 15:51:44 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Binakaw Eskrima/Bakaw Eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The Indonesian name for a crane/heron/egret is "Bangaw". Some would spell that as "Bangau", "Bangao", "Bangu" or "Bango".... As I remember it, Indonesians and Malaysians too claim that their crane-style was developed indigenously. Have you published anything on the style? Do you include it in your seminars? I am definitely interested in attending if you are going to conduct one in the US Northeast. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- Message: 11 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Kali Source To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:26:21 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > references he used would have came over with him from Jolo in the late > '30s._______________________________________________ > > Reply: > Well, it is highly unlikely but I suppose possible. My understanding is > he did not get around much. > My Guru's name is Mushtaq Ali al Ansari and he trained in his teens with > Guru Julaluddin Abdalsalaam and his son Rasheed. > Guru (our honorific, no titles back then) Abdaldalaam emigrated with his > wife to the United States before WWII (which by serving in obtained his > citizenship). He was raised by a successful merchant family in Jolo and > was trained the Kris and knife essentially from the time he was able to > hold them. Very interesting... Is Guru al Ansari still actively teaching? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Binakaw/Bango Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:21:43 -0500 From: "McTaggart, Ryan P" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Does anyone have a link for video footage of the crane style eskrima in action? Specifically footage of the style being used in sparring? Mahalo Ryan -----Original Message----- From: gatpuno@aol.com [mailto:gatpuno@aol.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 9:16 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Binakaw/Bango Hi, the word "Bango" to us Filipino is smell good. Well, in regards of if I published anything on "Binakaw'? The answer is "No" but I do teach the Stances since is part of the GAT curricullum in Cinco Teros and Siete Colores Arnis. One should understand the whole series of different animal we used in Arnis. Binakaw"Crane Style" usually the counterpart of the "Labuyo" Wild Rooster Style. This the two major animal we used on Arnis, its weard because only seems like "Laguna" only used the Animal Style of Arnis. means Technically not just name. Dont be cofused with other Eskrima Group that used animal, just a name as choice of name. Anyway, I have to put some thought on your question, is not bad if I can published the different Animal style in "Laguna" but I need the blessing of the remaining Grandmaster there before I can start working of that. I will keep you posted. Salamat, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ------- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 15:51:44 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Binakaw Eskrima/Bakaw Eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The Indonesian name for a crane/heron/egret is "Bangaw". Some would spell that as "Bangau", "Bangao", "Bangu" or "Bango".... As I remember it, Indonesians and Malaysians too claim that their crane-style was developed indigenously. Have you published anything on the style? Do you include it in your seminars? I am definitely interested in attending if you are going to conduct one in the US Northeast. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest