Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 02:58:39 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #161 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Another does of KALI (iPat) 2. RE: Kali source (Van Harn, Steve) 3. "Kali-mutan" etc. (gatpuno@aol.com) 4. The New www.WEKAFUSA.org - UNIFYING FMA (francis@francisserrano.com) 5. Re: "Kali-mutan" etc. (jay de leon) 6. Re: The New www.WEKAFUSA.org - UNIFYING FMA (Ray) 7. Binakaw Video Footage (GatPuno@aol.com) 8. Re: The New www.WEKAFUSA.org - UNIFYING FMA (John Garcia) 9. Inayan Camp - May 2007 (Steve Kohn) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:41:05 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Another does of KALI Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sanskrit belongs to the Indo-Aryan sub-family of the Indo-European family of languages. Together with the Iranian languages it belongs to the Indo-Iranian branch and as such is part of the Satem group of Indo-European languages, which also includes the Balto-Slavic branch. On 5/20/07, bgdebuque wrote: > If that Anybody can also show that, sometime in their history, Croatians, > Estonians and Greeks were short brown-skinned men, spoke a Sanskrit-based > language, wore Sarongs, have a stick-based martial art style, and > were believers in Buddhism and/or Hinduism, then I will have no choice but > to agree with that Anybody.... =[:->] -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 07:59:07 -0500 From: "Van Harn, Steve" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Kali source Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I wrote: > references he used would have came over with him from Jolo in the late > '30s._______________________________________________ > > Reply: > Well, it is highly unlikely but I suppose possible. My understanding is > he did not get around much. > My Guru's name is Mushtaq Ali al Ansari and he trained in his teens with > Guru Julaluddin Abdalsalaam and his son Rasheed. > Guru (our honorific, no titles back then) Abdalsalaam emigrated with his > wife to the United States before WWII (which by serving in obtained his > citizenship). He was raised by a successful merchant family in Jolo and > was trained the Kris and knife essentially from the time he was able to > hold them. Ray asked : Very interesting... Is Guru al Ansari still actively teaching? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com Well, I suppose you could say he is now:-) I assume you are referring to the Kali? He has never stopped teaching Silat. I have been his private student and training partner for four years now. He would use his considerable wealth of knowledge on all things MA (the breadth of which still surprises me)to help me improve any components of my Arnis that I expressed wishing to improve. In return, I was more than willing and thrilled to learn anything at all he wanted to work on as well. Oftentimes many of the aspects of Arnis we were working on would require references to the original Kali he learned. I finally expressed to him that we should codify it again as it's own art just as he learned it and convinced him to bring it back as a system. I realized that it was simply too unique on it's own to allow to fade away with time. So that is exactly what we are currently doing. Myself and one other teenage student (guinea pig heh, heh)are currently the only ones working on it and I will eventually be charged with carrying the art on. Prior to the beginning of our training he really hadn't even done any of the kali in decades. So what is so unique is that it is essentially a time capsule. He has not "changed" it since he learned it 40yrs ago and in turn what (and how) he learned was exactly as Guru Abdalsalaam learn in the 1920-30's Steve --__--__-- Message: 3 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 09:06:26 -0400 From: gatpuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] "Kali-mutan" etc. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Original Post: Anyone attempting to define the term Kali does not add to the confusion, rather they contribute to the movement in the direction of clarity or at least in the direction of investigation and further research. I continue to enjoy the many posts that offer real clarity of language use and written documentation of any kind. I think the real issue with the term Kali is that many people do not like "claims" made by certain groups. However, please keep in mind the fact that NOT all groups who choose to use the term Kali have made the claims that many find offensive or untrue in their minds. I am interested in intelligently researched and presented information that provides information and resources so that I can further my education on the subject and make up my on mind. Peace be with you, Mark   Hello, I dont like to dip my hand to the "Kali" term again, but I think I have to clarigy one thing. We can argue of what Inosanto and other "Kali" usage term and it will not end the issue. The real isssue is not the "Term" amny times is have been point it out. and I will point it out again, which one you dont understand: 1) NO, "Kali" is not the mother arts, like they claimed. 2) NO, Kali is not known Filipino Martial Arts in the Philippines. 3) NO, Kali is not any different than Arnis and Eskrima now. 4) NO, Kali is not in any means far better nor less that Eskrima Fighter, and Arnisadores. Now people which is the part of "NO" you dont understand, the "N" or the "O"?? its still "NO" I mentioned it before "kali" now is accepted term as Filipino Martial Arts, and fine and we cant change that, but the only calimed that we Eskrimadores, Estokadores, and Arnisadores is stand is m this is not the "Mother Arts". Hope its is end here, becaused we are going back and port to some inclusion, and insertion of the words that not mere know to the Filipino. Now, I will get down to my own word again, you want to be called pure, then one way to see if your art is any better or the true "Mother of all Mother of the Filipino Martial Atrs", then put it in action. I will stand to that challenge, and I am a Arnisdor, Eskrimador and Estokador, and I am tired hearing the claimed that this "Kali" is the "Mother Art" that all. I dont have any comment to the skills of Kali practitioner, but I am very much insulted when someone that not even born and raised in the Philippines is arguing this "mother Arts" of all Filipino Martila Arts "Kali". I dont care what your instructor todl you, to us majority of Filipino can easily clraify it that your instructor made a big "Boboo" such a claimed that many of us not agreeing. Kali dont have ground for acceptance to be the Mother Arts, the Purer, the first art and so on. If you are not Filipino and try to push to us to accepted that "Term" or to be accepted by others Arnis and Eskrima believer. Also, even the Filipino whom set the "Term" his intention is to clearly say that his art is the purer, and the rest of the FMA is come from this brand. They are "darn" wrong and i can sure you that, unless they can explain every single theory of Arnis, Style, Eskrima, and Estokada and see the close ties to each other, I would probably the first one to accept that claimed. Hope this will put some clarification of such claimed. Kali-mutan, (forget) about it, "Kali-kisan" (Scale off), "Kali-sin" (Scrape) off, even the blade itself that used in Mindanao called "Kalis" is not show or even traceable to be the mother art of Arnis/Eskrima. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. =0 --__--__-- Message: 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 7:43:00 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] The New www.WEKAFUSA.org - UNIFYING FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, You know WEKAF.COM I'm not sure who that group is... But since WEKAFUSA has gotten non-profit status so any and all donations made to the organization can be used againts taxes. Hence why we are now a .org organization. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 07:58:41 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] "Kali-mutan" etc. To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Though not as passionate as my kapatid Abon, I wholeheartedly agree with most of his arguments and sentiments. I have stated my position in many articles I have written in the past. I empathize with followers of Guro Dan, whom I have acknowledged as a professor emeritus of FMA history. (FWIW, I am an Inosanto Kali practitioner.) I would hazard a guess that Guro Dan would not push that Mother Art claim now, in light of what we know now. So I agree with kapatid Abon about followers quoting what he (Guro Dan) said and presenting it as evidence. For those who have not yet had their fill of this issue, check this article out. A non-martial arts friend sent it to me. http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/ceb/2007/05/21/sports/rama.romancing.eskrima.de.cebu.(last.of.two.parts).html Jay de Leon www.tipunan.com gatpuno@aol.com wrote: Original Post: Anyone attempting to define the term Kali does not add to the confusion, rather they contribute to the movement in the direction of clarity or at least in the direction of investigation and further research. I continue to enjoy the many posts that offer real clarity of language use and written documentation of any kind. I think the real issue with the term Kali is that many people do not like "claims" made by certain groups. However, please keep in mind the fact that NOT all groups who choose to use the term Kali have made the claims that many find offensive or untrue in their minds. I am interested in intelligently researched and presented information that provides information and resources so that I can further my education on the subject and make up my on mind. Peace be with you, Mark Hello, I dont like to dip my hand to the "Kali" term again, but I think I have to clarigy one thing. We can argue of what Inosanto and other "Kali" usage term and it will not end the issue. The real isssue is not the "Term" amny times is have been point it out. and I will point it out again, which one you dont understand: 1) NO, "Kali" is not the mother arts, like they claimed. 2) NO, Kali is not known Filipino Martial Arts in the Philippines. 3) NO, Kali is not any different than Arnis and Eskrima now. 4) NO, Kali is not in any means far better nor less that Eskrima Fighter, and Arnisadores. Now people which is the part of "NO" you dont understand, the "N" or the "O"?? its still "NO" I mentioned it before "kali" now is accepted term as Filipino Martial Arts, and fine and we cant change that, but the only calimed that we Eskrimadores, Estokadores, and Arnisadores is stand is m this is not the "Mother Arts". Hope its is end here, becaused we are going back and port to some inclusion, and insertion of the words that not mere know to the Filipino. Now, I will get down to my own word again, you want to be called pure, then one way to see if your art is any better or the true "Mother of all Mother of the Filipino Martial Atrs", then put it in action. I will stand to that challenge, and I am a Arnisdor, Eskrimador and Estokador, and I am tired hearing the claimed that this "Kali" is the "Mother Art" that all. I dont have any comment to the skills of Kali practitioner, but I am very much insulted when someone that not even born and raised in the Philippines is arguing this "mother Arts" of all Filipino Martila Arts "Kali". I dont care what your instructor todl you, to us majority of Filipino can easily clraify it that your instructor made a big "Boboo" such a claimed that many of us not agreeing. Kali dont have ground for acceptance to be the Mother Arts, the Purer, the first art and so on. If you are not Filipino and try to push to us to accepted that "Term" or to be accepted by others Arnis and Eskrima believer. Also, even the Filipino whom set the "Term" his intention is to clearly say that his art is the purer, and the rest of the FMA is come from this brand. They are "darn" wrong and i can sure you that, unless they can explain every single theory of Arnis, Style, Eskrima, and Estokada and see the close ties to each other, I would probably the first one to accept that claimed. Hope this will put some clarification of such claimed. Kali-mutan, (forget) about it, "Kali-kisan" (Scale off), "Kali-sin" (Scrape) off, even the blade itself that used in Mindanao called "Kalis" is not show or even traceable to be the mother art of Arnis/Eskrima. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. =0 _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The New www.WEKAFUSA.org - UNIFYING FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 09:46:54 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > But since WEKAFUSA has gotten non-profit status so any and all donations > made to the organization can be used againts taxes. Hence why we are > now a .org organization. Anyone can get a .org domain name. But more importantly, how are you unifying the FMA if you don't know about wekaf.com? Sorry to ask such questions, but in your role as director of marketing I assume that you've actually checked with wekaf on this and decided it was better to form yet another new group instead of going with the one already existing...??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 16:46:32 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Binakaw Video Footage Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, Ryan, I do have video footage, and the techniques I used in "Luneta" when I match up with one of the Grandmaster is the Crane style (Binakaw).. I also have footage, that I used it on Sparring against my student. > > Does anyone have a link for video footage of the crane style eskrima in > action?  Specifically footage of the style being used in sparring? > > Mahalo > > Ryan > > Okay, keep training, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:24:04 -0700 (PDT) From: John Garcia Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The New www.WEKAFUSA.org - UNIFYING FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray, Just to clarify. WEKAFUSA is not a new group. We are the same WEKAF that has represented the USA as part of the International WEKAF group since it's inception in 1989. The website is new. Until last year our website was under wekafusa.com, but someone has illegally stolen that site and is using it as a porn site. To bad some people have to do those type of things. Anyway, WEKAF USA has purchased the WEKAFUSA.org website name and has just gotten the website backup for our organization. Looking at WEKAF.com, I believe that site is a forum to discuss all the various form of FMA. We are listed as a link on that website, although that will need to be updated to reflect the new web address. The WEKAF USA organization represents the USA as part of WEKAF International. As such, we organize and hold regional tournaments and a national tournament to pick the fighters that will represent the US in the World tournament. The goal of WEKAF worldwide and WEKAF USA is to promote the FMA martial arts, all styles. That is our mission. We are trying to grow membership in the federation across all styles of FMA to help grow the art. John Garcia 2007 WEKAF USA Secretary Ray wrote: > But since WEKAFUSA has gotten non-profit status so any and all donations > made to the organization can be used againts taxes. Hence why we are > now a .org organization. Anyone can get a .org domain name. But more importantly, how are you unifying the FMA if you don't know about wekaf.com? Sorry to ask such questions, but in your role as director of marketing I assume that you've actually checked with wekaf on this and decided it was better to form yet another new group instead of going with the one already existing...??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:21:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Kohn To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Inayan Camp - May 2007 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All, A few weeks back I was fortunate enough to be invited up to Santa Cruz, CA by Guro Jon Ward to teach at his Inayan Camp. Let me just say that it was a total blast! Guro Ward put together a crew of instructors that had a great collective attitude that was devoid of any sort of political agenda. In other words...it was all about the martial arts. Eskrima, kickboxing and grappling were all well represented with everyone demonstrating (and teaching) their arts at a high level. I highly recommend attending Guro Ward's future gatherings if you have the opportunity. You won't be dissapointed! Thanks Guro Ward! Best to all, Steve Kohn Torrance, CA --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest