Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 02:58:43 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #171 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: How about "Bastoneros"? (Felipe Jocano) 2. Re: Tabak/Gulok/Itak/Bolo (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #166 - 10 msgs) (Felipe Jocano) 3. Re: arnis (james jr. sy) 4. Golok and Indonesian words (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #170 - 11 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 5. Kali Term in late 1800's early 1900's (GatPuno@aol.com) 6. CDP-WF will be hosting the 2007 World Championships in Jakarta (Eskrima-FMA) 7. Better Fighter/Better Lawyer (GatPuno@aol.com) 8. Panananda/Pananadata Marinas.. (GatPuno@aol.com) 9. video clip: chuck's fight (Jye nigma) 10. GAT-Summer Retreat 7-6-7-8=07 (GatPuno@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 20:53:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] How about "Bastoneros"? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ilonggo gid! My father is Ilonggo (for our nonPinoy borthers, he's from Iloilo, a province in the Visayas) and yes in his part of the country, arnisadores were also called bastoneros. I find it interesting that in Tagalog, a bastonero is either the prison mayor (big boss in jail) or the warden or the warden's enforcer...A pity I don't speak much Ilonggo, since I grew up in Manila... Bot --- bgdebuque wrote: > Hi Gat Abon! > > Don't forget our small corner of the Philippines > where stickfighters are > originally called "Bastoneros".... =[:->] > ____________________________________________________________________________________Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 21:08:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tabak/Gulok/Itak/Bolo (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #166 - 10 msgs) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Recently I came out of our practice area. I had ended practice and was carrying my two sticks and a dahong-palay when one of the maintenance personnel noticed what I was carrying and said, "O tapos na ang ensayo? (Practice is finished?)" He saw what I was carrying and while we were talking he called my dahong palay a - kalis. Interesting, no? I forgot to ask him what province he was from, but I will as soon as I see him again. This is from a guy about roughly ten to fifteen years older than me. Bot > In a message dated 5/27/2007 7:16:44 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > > Its true, I mentioned it before, in old Tagalog, we > openly call"Kalis" as > interchangable with 'TabaK, Gulok, and itak means > all Bolo. In one line on > our > Passion Play, during the time when Longinus was > struct of St, Peter "machete" > in the line Jesus said, "Isalong mo Pedro and yaong > kalis, sa kamay mo. > (Peter > put down your bolo from your hand). But it is not > based upon to recieved and > accept that this is the "MotherArt". I mentioned > many time, called your art > any name you want, but dont call it "mother" because > is not. > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's > free at http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 04:13:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] arnis To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Steve, No Chinese kung fu animals influence. Just Judo, Karate, and Jujutsu/Combat Judo. JAMES steve mulligan wrote: Hello, can anyone tell me if modern arnis was influenced in anyway by the animal styles of kung-fu..... thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 08:30:03 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Golok and Indonesian words (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #170 - 11 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Tim, Gulok is the same as golok. In Tagalog, "o" is usually interchangeable with "u". Pananandata the system that I teach is derived from "sendata" a derivative of an Indonesian word. When a prefix is attached to a root word, in Tagalog, usually, the first letter disappears. That is why there is no "s" in pananandata. Incidentally, there is a native Alaskan cutting tool called "ulu". It is used to cut heads of fish. I do not know if there is any correlation but I thought I'd mention it. I would have attached your last name to avoid the confusion that Marc Denny experienced. Regards. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/28/2007 7:16:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: i had always assumed that the tagalog term 'gulok' was related to the indonesian term 'golok,' which refers to a machete-type blade. although, i haven't done any research on it. i'd be interested in hearing yours. tim ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 10:35:51 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Kali Term in late 1800's early 1900's Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kali, kali, kali. This is what I found out in the old book of "Yambao" is mentioned whom he first heard the word. The quote is came from "Father Gregorio Aglipay" I assume is early 1900's or later 1800. Father Gregorio Aglipay is the founder of the Philippine Indipendent Church. As "Yambao" express, Arnis was know Kali up to 1610. As the early days, our anscestors knew the art of arnis as kali. However, as time passes, changes are un-avoidable and it became known as "Pananandata" in Tagalog, "Pagkalikali" in the plains of Cagayan by the Ibanags, "Kalirongan" in Pangasinan, "Kaliradman" in Visaya and "Pagaradman" in Ilongo in 1860, "Didya" in Ilocos and, and 1872, came to be called "Kabaroan" This is according to Fr. Gregorio Aglipay. Now, Even Fr. Aglipay is one of the Protestant to seperated from Catholic Philippine CAtholic Church. He is still dont have point of reference where he got the word Kali, It also mentioned the "Kali" term is replace by Arnis 1853 after our noted writer and poet Francisco Balagtas, wrote Arnis in his epic "Florante at Laura" wherein describeds the demonstration of knowledge and skill in the arts "bunot Arnis". Now, I also want to mention the double meaning of the word "bunot arnis". I would assume this is saying just simply "Drawing Weapon", becaused their no apostrophe on "Bunot" it make a lot of different in he said "Buno't" then is referring to "Buno" wrestling "'t" is "at" (and) then add the "Arnis" it should be written "buno't arnis" but in the original is said "bunot arnis" as Tagalog speaker, bunot is still common uses in Tagalog. Also can enterchange the meanSing too. Bunot-Coconut hash, Bunot-Pull-off, Bunot kaaluban, draw from the hoslters, Bunot Armas, Sandata, itak, golok, tabak, sundang, etc. all of them is referring drawing the blades. I still stand, that "NO" such base where they got the word "Kali".. No point of reference.. I would said, the history should be written in something like this. The FMA is Kali in other part of the Philippines then listed arnis, eskrima, pananadata, etc. in other part, No it was written for us to believed that the Kali is started it all.. NO way, Jose.. and they just accept it without seaching for the truth. This is happen also in "Code of Kalantiaw" is myth, is not facts. Okay.. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 08:23:15 -0700 From: Eskrima-FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] CDP-WF will be hosting the 2007 World Championships in Jakarta Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Eskrima. The Cacoy Doce Pares World Federation (CDP-WF) will be hosting the 2007 CDP WF Arnis Eskrima World Championships in Jakarta Indonesia from Sept. 6 to 10. The competition is open to both federation and non-federation members who wish to compete. According to Chuck Cañete, the organizers are working hard to obtain as much sponsorship as possible so competitors won't have to spend too much. For more details, check out http://championship2007. thecmaa.com or www.eskrima. multiply.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 10:59:47 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Better Fighter/Better Lawyer Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This is good, but it doesnt scared me to your examples. I think is someone want to used the name and title as they can live with it. Garimot has al long family backgroud. Before me my family did a lot for the family arts, it was guarded from one family to the other. But somehow if someone want to take it, they will came like "thieves" they still what they want and go. But in our case in our history is the other way around. My family is written in Paete History published in 1956 by writer and Doctor Eugenio Quezada. My family came to Paete on early 1700's as a Muslims Pirates, and my ancestors find the town as picturesque land lye on the foot of Sierra Madre and top of the Laguna de Bay. According to the account, my ancestors feel in love with the town and the Bay. So he decide to quit Piracy and joined the town as defender of Paete. My anscestor are written in our town history, that "maintained" the crown champion from Swordsmasnhip to a "modern Stickfighting" tourney. I could go on, but i dont think that the case, so if anyone want to used my "Garimot Name" their better be ready to stand the meaning of the "Names" Absorber. > If somebody sells merchandise in the internet using "Garimot Arnis" > without  > your permission, what protection do you have against it? Or if somebody puts > up  a school in the middle of nowhere offering to teach "Garimot Arnis" > without > your  knowledge what happens then? You might pick up a stick and knock on > their door?  The problem is you might be a better fighter but the other guy > you > beat up might  have a better lawyer. > > You are right, its happen to me already, in the Philippines. I am a poor gentlemen making a living teaching Arnis, ten of this college student jump on me. I had to do what I have to do, but you are right indeed, i did beat them all, but they beaten me more than you know to legality. Thank God I only serves two weeks in Jailed lost my opportunity to teach and joined tounament in Laguna. But as I mentioned, I am not scared. If I will die today, let me die with purpose. Taken with me my pride and dignity, the true me.. peace, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 09:59:24 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Panananda/Pananadata Marinas.. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net PG. Marinas, I undestand the "Pananandata Marinas" that really yours becaused you put your last name on it. But the "Pananadata" alone is common words used in Lagauna, the the reason why I asked? I understand, I find so many Filipino Martial Arts in US and Europe using my name as studied under me, I only been in Europe once, I only have few Representatives in Europe. All this representative is listed on my Website. The rest of the people claimed, I am on top of them, asking them to removed my name of instructor under their reusme. I also asked many people here in US, even their my student at one point and start teaching Garimot Arnis, I told them to removed the claimed that they are certified instructor by me. My instructor list is listed in my website. > > One of my students surfed the internet and found that Amazon.com was  > selling > T-shirts/sweatshirts/caps with the name "Pananandata Marinas". I got  very > angry. I even requested you (via email) to help spread the word that they  > did > not have permission to use the words. > > There is only one Marinas associated with the name "pananandata". The  > merchandise originated from Florida (but I would not give the company's > name).  It > is this kind of use that I guard against - somebody making money on my > labor  > of more that 30 years trying to get the name recognized. It is the name  > recognition that the company was relying on to make a few $. I doubt if > they  would > have made more than a few $ though. > > I emailed the company. They apologized and I accepted the apology and that  > was that. > > Let me ask you. Can you name one writer aside from me who  has written about > pananandata in the last 34 years (since 1973)? Hence,  whatever name > recognition pananandata gets is because of my 34 labor  of years of writing, > demonstrating, and doing seminars on it. Those who you  said had been > practicing it, how > much effort did they put in propagating the  name in the United States? > > PG. Marinas Did I ever questioned your lenght of year using the arts? I asked you only a particular question, if make no difference if you have been using the term for the past 100 years. Becaused is still a common term in Tagalog. Now about the Garimot Arnis, they can used Arnis but the Garimot, they need to answer them to me. I dont really care who they are, i will be on their case if any how they start using the "Garimot". But "If" we are business man, this might not be the case. If someone uses our arts name of someone big name in TV or Movie industries, this might be a different stories. We are getting Free advertising by them using your arts. But still not to me, I can get the publicity that I need to get if I want it to. Thank you for your honest answer and if I may, I think if your quote is "Pananandata Marinas" I would never point it out or even questioned you.. but I only see on your post "Pananadata" that make wonder if your claimed the name is yours "copyrights" even though is common term in Tagalog. Salamat, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 13:13:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: jyesluv@yahoo.com Subject: [Eskrima] video clip: chuck's fight Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/ufc%2B71/video/x238ub_chuck- --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 18:34:23 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] GAT-Summer Retreat 7-6-7-8=07 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, Just reminder to all. July is just around the corner. Garimot Arnis Training Summer Retreat July, 6-7-8, 2007 E-mail me if you are interested and I forward you the flyer. I will visiting Chicago this weekend for Friday 1 till 4 Monday. i dont set any Seminar, but I will be available for group or private lesson, just e-mail me if you are interested. My time will be available depend on my business matter that I have to take care. Sadly, I have to cancelled my Philippine Trip this July becaused of work schedule. Sorry for all of the practitioner that waiting for mne and want to arrange Seminar in Manila. I also warning those "Masters" that dont celebrate yet, i am thinking of going home sometimes this year. Who knows I will give you a Christmas present. Just keep training and get ready, i will get back to you soon, and I will guarantee your training would be worth. GOOD NEWS: Paete Arnis Tournament is still on, July 25th, 1pm in town Plaza. Dont miss it, if you are interested to be part of it, see My Uncle GM Gregorio "Goyo" Baet or Maestro Rogelio "Ohing" Alberto. Glad to see you on tape fighting the no-weight, no-age limit, no-skill level, no-padded, no gear Stick Fighting Tournament. EVeryone is friendly match, no one got killed yet, so far from the year 1920- up to now 2007, its up to you how to act accordingly. The fight goes how hard you want to beat your opponent.. Rules varies every year, so learn them as you sign yourself. Salamat.. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest