Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 02:58:32 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #174 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Dahong Palay (gatpuno@aol.com) 2. Bo, Thank you Bai. (gatpuno@aol.com) 3. RE: Kali source (Van Harn, Steve) 4. kali and "junior" practioners (maurice gatdula) 5. Senjata/Sendata/Sandata (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #173 - 12 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 6. short whip (James Campbell) 7. Re: kali and "junior" practioners (Ray) 8. Re: kali and "junior" practioners (Andrew Maddox) 9. Increadable Knife Instructor! (tom) 10. Re: short whip (Jonathan Kessler) 11. Re: Tagalog Question (Brian Johns) 12. Re: Tagalog question (RJ Garcia) 13. Re: Dahong palay (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #171 - 12 msgs) (nephalim1@aim.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:09:09 -0400 From: gatpuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Dahong Palay Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bot, Its common in Luzon, not only in Tagalog proviinces the word "kalis" for itak was used. I live for three months in Daraga, Albay in Bicol and there also "Kalis", also interchangeable to Sundang, Golok, Itak. It's funny beacused most of the "Panakbat" carrying blades in Quezon, Laguna Provinces is Dahin Palay and Dahon Buho (Bamboo leaf shape blades). Becaused this is strickly use for minamal farm work, ,ost ly for self protection. Becaused as a farmer, if I have to go to Ricefief, I will wear the "Dahon Buno" or Dahon palay on my waist, and I will hold,on my hand either "Halabas"blades or large Sickle or Karit (the Small sickle), dipend of what job I had to tackle that day. When I go to the Mountain, I will wer my "Panakbat" and my left hand holding either large "Palakol" Axe , "Lagari" hand Saw for cutting large trunk of wood, or "Bareta" Metal Bar, "Asarol" Pike, for digging soil to plant, or Long handle "karit"sickel or wooden "Kawit" hook for holding vines and grass that covering my plants. My brother older brother Jose was the assitant of the famous "Luis Panday" in our town, and he made me two blades from Saudi Arabia, one is "Binkuko" or "Simapaloc"(Tamarinds shape Blades), and Dahon Palay. I told him, that i want him to open "Pandayan" "Blade shop" in Paete whenever he decide to retire form Saudi Arabia. Dahon Palay is ajust a perfect wight and size as weapon. Easy to carry and manipulate than any other blades in Luzon. Good for hacking and thrusting purposes, but is not good for cutting heavy trunk, sometimes either it well bend or if the "forged: is not perfect temperature, it will break in half as you struct the branch of wood. Recently I came out of our practice area. I had ended practice and was carrying my two sticks and a dahong-palay when one of the maintenance personnel noticed what I was carrying and said, "O tapos na ang ensayo? (Practice is finished?)" He saw what I was carrying and while we were talking he called my dahong palay a - kalis. Interesting, no? I forgot to ask him what province he was from, but I will as soon as I see him again. This is from a guy about roughly ten to fifteen years older than me. Bot Okay find out where he came from, be well, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- Message: 2 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:27:05 -0400 From: gatpuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Bo, Thank you Bai. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Maayong Gabi sa iyo Bai (Good evening too), Diin ka nag adon bai? (where have you been)? Kailangan ka na namin diri (we need you here). Dugay na topic na ito bai (its a have been long topic) Sali ka na (join us). Daghan salamat sa info bai,(Thank you for the info), Diin ka sa Negros? (Where are you in Negros?). Your original post. maayong gabi (good evening) I am sorry to inform you all that there is no term in our dialect as kaliradman. There is a term "kinaadman" (skills). kinaadman sa pangamut (skilled in boxing or in the use of the hands whether with weapons or with pen). Bo Bo Daghan salamat, (Thank you), Dili man ako Visaya pero nakapagsalita ba bai ng konti (I am not Visayan but I can speak a little). I can speak and write the "Daragano" dialect, which is Bicol but close to the the Visayan dialect. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:42:11 -0500 From: "Van Harn, Steve" To: Cc: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Kali source Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Yes, most likely. It was Guru Abdalsalaam who initially intrigued him enough (by talking about Silat) to check it out back then. Steve From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Kali Source To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Steve: There's a certain Mushtaq Ali Shah who's a pesilat and a member of the egroup silatworld. Is this the same person? Am very curious, same name... Bot --- "Van Harn, Steve" wrote: > No, not quite correct. My Guru Mushtaq Ali trained in the early '60s > as a youth alongside Rashid (as his partner) with Rashid's father, > Guru Abdasalaam. > It was Guru Abdalsalaam who trained in Marawi and Zambaoanga (not Jolo > as I incorrectly posted earlier)in his youth. > In #2 HE refers to Guru Abdalsalaam and #4 is correct. > Guru Mushtaq also supplied to me yesterday the name most often used by > Guru Abdalsalaam. > He called it "this is how you fight" most of the time. > > Steve --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:26:09 -0700 (PDT) From: maurice gatdula To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] kali and "junior" practioners Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net i want to answer steve lamade comment, that only "junior" practioners care about this Kali issue, and "experienced" ones dont. this is insulting, but i will leave it at that. now, i want to say, the ones who say, just leave it alone are like the people who does somebody wrong, then they say, just let us get away with it, let by gones be by gones, this world does not work that way. see some people do not have a passion about the art they practice, so the only thing that matters to them is, seminars, video tape and certifications--tings that benefits them only. no offense , but that is a very western view of life, and i dont agree with it. at the same time, i dont wish to stop some people from having a view different from mine. martial art is more than just punches and kicks (or drills and disarms, for some people). some things matter more than what benefit is it to me. like the people who say, as long as it works. have you ever heard of ashida kim? maung gyi? these people might be good martial artists, but some things matter more than just their skill. no, the correct answer is, filipinos care about this subject (also some none filipinos who are looking for the truth in the art), and the ones who dont care are the ones who put "Kali certified" on their resume (this including some filipinos too). our point is, use it i dont care. just dont try to pass this different, better, more ancient than arnis and eskrima. the difference between arnis and kali is like the difference of doce pares and pananandata. they are names of styles, nothing more. when you go to the words with "kali" in them, india, etc. to explain that your art is never been eskrima, it is the art yambao is talking about....it makes your argument look worse. now, i am curious. do you consider me and abon baet to be a "junior practioner"? --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 14:50:49 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Senjata/Sendata/Sandata (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #173 - 12 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net BGdebuque, Thanks for the correction. I did my research more than 20 years ago and I couldn't find my notes. Hence, I simply stated that "sendata" is a derivative of an Indonesian word. This way, the reader will allow me a forgiveable error. There are many instances were the "j" in an Indonesian word is replaced with "dy". For example: tjak becomes, in Tagalog, "tadyak" a stomping kick. There is a number of reasons for getting a copyright. One might carry a big stick while he is still living but who will protect the rights of his heirs when he is gone? APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/30/2007 2:24:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Hi GM Mat! The Indonesian equivalent of the Tagalog "sandata" is "senjata" (pronounced as "sen-dya-ta"). I cannot recall any Indonesian equivalent of "Pananandata" though. So I think your move to have it copyrighted was a good one. As I remember it, even the Shaolin Monks have already made an effort to have the word "Shaolin" copyrighted. I don't know the extent of their success so far though. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:22:02 -0700 (PDT) From: James Campbell To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] short whip Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'll keep this short and sweet i am interested in learning the usage of the phillipino short whip. I have some knowldge of the standard technigue used by the Spanish practioners, but I was informed that the Latigo y dagga techniques are different I would appreciate a reply on this subject Salamat po James --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] kali and "junior" practioners To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 14:52:31 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > i want to answer steve lamade comment, that only "junior" practioners > care about this Kali issue, and "experienced" ones dont. > > this is insulting, but i will leave it at that. I think he probably meant it the other way 'round... else it doesn't make much sense. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 22:26:30 +0000 (UTC) From: Andrew Maddox To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] kali and "junior" practioners Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Wed, 30 May 2007, maurice gatdula wrote: > now, i am curious. do you consider me and abon baet to be a "junior > practioner"? Heh. Trick question, right? ;-) Back to lurking, I just plowed through 3 weeks worth of FMA list mail in 2 days so I'm still working out who said what to who, when, and about what. Spinning my head is, yes. afm -- Andrew Maddox, madsox2k at freeshell dot org Practitioner of Unaffiliated Martial Arts But really just, like, this guy, y'know? --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "tom" To: Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 17:37:04 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Increadable Knife Instructor! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thought everyone may be interested in this clip. This guy has some skill. Better say "no" to drugs! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5ZCDAuIoI4 --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 16:17:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Kessler Subject: Re: [Eskrima] short whip To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Tom Meadow's book "The Filipino Fighting Whip" is a great resource. http://www.paladin-press.com/detail.aspx?ID=1238 Also depending on where you live, there are some very good instructors around. JK James Campbell wrote: I'll keep this short and sweet i am interested in learning the usage of the phillipino short whip. I have some knowldge of the standard technigue used by the Spanish practioners, but I was informed that the Latigo y dagga techniques are different I would appreciate a reply on this subject Salamat po James --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 22:08:16 -0400 From: "Brian Johns" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Tagalog Question Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thanks to Kiano Bobby, Bot Jocano, Gat Puno, and James Sy for their edification with regard to "anak" (see, I spelled it right this time !! :-) ) These posts confirmed my understanding of that word and it came up in the context of a person that I knew using that word often. Many thanks, Brian Johns Columbus, Ohio --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 18:46:07 -0700 (PDT) From: RJ Garcia Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tagalog question To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Brian, Anak means "someone's child" and is always used in relation to the parents. (In grammar, I think this is when the child is the subject and the parent/s is the direct object or something like that. hehe) This, as opposed to just saying bata (child), which is used when no relation to the parents is used. For example, the question "who's child is this?" would be more properly translated as "kaninong anak ito?" as opposed to "kaninong bata ito?". Then an answer to that might possibly be "anak ko", which may mean either "my son" or "my daughter". But, if if you have a statement like "he is still a child", the proper translation is "bata pa siya" and not "anak pa siya". I hope that helped. Gumagalang (Respectfully), RJ Garcia ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Johns To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 5:37:51 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Tagalog question De-lurking momentarily with a quick question for the Tagalog speakers on this list. What does "anok" mean ? I've heard that it means "son." I've also heard that it means "child." Which is it ? Or does it depend on the context ? Many thanks, Brian Johns Columbus, Ohio (soon to be Toronto, Canada) _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 13 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Dahong palay (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #171 - 12 msgs) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 21:27:00 -0400 From: nephalim1@aim.com Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Po, Besides the "kumpas-Kumpasan", wasn't there also a grasslike plant with seed pods that rattled and grows among the "palat"(abrasive wild grass)? Jose (Dong) -----Original Message----- From: Pananandta@aol.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 5:09 pm Subject: [Eskrima] Dahong palay (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #171 - 12 msgs) Hi Bot, I do not know if any EDer has explained the "dahong palay". If some EDer did, those who missed the post might be interested to know that dahong palay (literally translated is rice leaf) is a snake that is commonly found in the rice fields in my village. It is easy to mistake them for a rice leaf because they do not grow that big. Despite being very common and despite villagers going to the rice fields barefooted, there was no instance of anybody getting bitten by it in my village. When my childhood friends and I go to the rice fields we make a lot of noise with a "kumpas-kumpasan" a straight stem of a small plant. When the leaves are removed, it is horsewhip-like. You cannot make a kumpas-kumpasan crack but you can make it whistle through the air before it hits the grass that is ahead of you. This makes the dahong palay slither away. APMarinas Sr. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest