Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 19:27:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #175 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: arnis and kung-fu (james jr. sy) 2. Re: Tagalog question (Wieneke, Myron) 3. Re: Kali (Felipe Jocano) 4. kali (Stephen Lamade) 5. Dahon Palay/Lamade (GatPuno@aol.com) 6. Latigo y Daga (GatPuno@aol.com) 7. I just don't know what to think... (RJ Garcia) 8. Re: arnis and kung-fu (jay de leon) 9. Re: I just don't know what to think... (Ray) 10. Re: Tagalog question (Felipe Jocano) 11. Re: Dahong Palay (Felipe Jocano) 12. Re: More Indonesian words.... (bgdebuque) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 03:21:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] arnis and kung-fu To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Sir Jay, Wow, you're really keen Sir. I missed that one. Didn't notice the caps hehehe For me, it was kinda automatic, Modern Arnis = GM Presas. :p Thank you very much. Presas Style Modern Arnis as founded by the late GM Remegio "Remy" A. Presas of Hinigaran didn't have any Chinese animals influence but did have Japanese influences such as Karate, Judo, and Jujutsu. GM Presas was a member of the Philippine Amateur Judo Association (PAJA), the national governing body for Kodokan Judo in the Philippines, and had taught Judo and Arnis at the University of Negros Occidental-Recoletos, the first university in Negros Occidental. For modern arnis, when used as a generic term for 20th Century FMA, that would depend on what style is being talked about. As Master Jay pointed out, Lapunti de Abanico, founded by GMs Filemon Caburnay and GM Johnny Chiuten, and Pronus Supinus, founded by GM Chiuten, are "modern" Cebuano styles of Arnis that have Chinese influences. Another is Tat Kun Tou founded by the late Grandmaster Jose Go in Cebu. Tat Kun Tou is a rendering of the Korean term Tang Soo Do and Japanese Karate-do (same hanja/kanji or Chinese characters). Although the name and the movements are seemingly Chinese, the art was heavily influenced by Balintawak Escrima of GM Go's teacher, Founder GM Venancio Bacon. The Chinese component of Tat Kun Tou is Ngo Cho Kun Kung Fu (5 Ancestors fist) which traces its roots to Southern China (I think) and is actively propagated by the Bakbakan International nowadays. In Bacolod, there are some practitioners of Lapu-Lapu Viñas Arnis who had assimilated Wing Chun techniques within the system. We are aware, however, that Wing Chun doesn't use animal forms. The foreign-influenced FMA Filipino Tang Soo Do founded by Master Elmer V. Montoyo uses a Tang Soo Do base integrated with Filipino, Chinese, Japanese, Indonesian, and Thai concepts, techniques, and philosophy. The Chinese influences include among others Hung Gar, Tai Chi Chuan, and Kung Fu Karato. In Iloilo City, Uno Blanco Arnis has integration of the internal principles of Hsing I Chuan (Mind Intention Boxing) and Tai Chi Chuan (Grand Ultimate Fist). There are more but these are the only ones that come to mind at this moment. Hope this helps. James U. Sy Jr. jay de leon wrote: James: Please help me with this clarification. Since Steve does not capitalize "modern arnis," I guess he means arnis in general, not Remy Presas's Modern Arnis. In which case, can we not say a few specific styles of FMA were influenced by kung-fu (just like karate, judo, etc.)? Some styles that come to mind include possibly Lapunti, pronius, etc., simply because the founders were (possibly among other skills) kung-fu stylists? Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com "james jr. sy" wrote: Hi Steve, No Chinese kung fu animals influence. Just Judo, Karate, and Jujutsu/Combat Judo. JAMES steve mulligan wrote: Hello, can anyone tell me if modern arnis was influenced in anyway by the animal styles of kung-fu..... thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Wieneke, Myron" To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tagalog question Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 06:49:14 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Agreed, funny enough filipino slang does use the phrase "bata ko". (Very hard to translate but something like "this is my boy") -----Original Message----- From: RJ Garcia To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Wed May 30 21:46:07 2007 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tagalog question Hi Brian, Anak means "someone's child" and is always used in relation to the parents. (In grammar, I think this is when the child is the subject and the parent/s is the direct object or something like that. hehe) This, as opposed to just saying bata (child), which is used when no relation to the parents is used. For example, the question "who's child is this?" would be more properly translated as "kaninong anak ito?" as opposed to "kaninong bata ito?". Then an answer to that might possibly be "anak ko", which may mean either "my son" or "my daughter". But, if if you have a statement like "he is still a child", the proper translation is "bata pa siya" and not "anak pa siya". I hope that helped. Gumagalang (Respectfully), RJ Garcia ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Johns To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 5:37:51 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Tagalog question De-lurking momentarily with a quick question for the Tagalog speakers on this list. What does "anok" mean ? I've heard that it means "son." I've also heard that it means "child." Which is it ? Or does it depend on the context ? Many thanks, Brian Johns Columbus, Ohio (soon to be Toronto, Canada) _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ============================================================================== Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.credit-suisse.com/legal/en/disclaimer_email_ib.html ============================================================================== --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 00:31:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Stephen; I think your post is going to draw quite some heat soon - and here I am adding a few more joules :-) 1) With regard to the "kali is the mother art" issue: You raise a good point: We are not actually required to believe what we are told about the history of the particular art that we learn, especially since this may be the interpretation of our teacher. It is in this spirit that I read your lumping together this statement together with those made about blind princesses and secret caves, etc. However - the fact remains that this statement has indeed seen print. Now, this is not to attack Dan Inosanto or Ben Largusa, both of whom by all accounts are fine gentlemen and superb martial artists. If this is what they were told and thereafter what they had told their students - fine. But there have been consequences that have followed from this statement seeing print more than twenty years ago. Specifically, ever since many Filipino martial artists read this statement, they have conducted their own research into the history and origins of the FMA and in general, the consensus seems to be - there is no such thing as kali the mother art. There is kalis the sword, from which it could be inferred that what we have is a generic term for sword skills, not a mother system from which all other FMAs have come. I was talking recently with GM Tony Diego, head of Kalis Illustrisimo. He told me that Kalis meant sword and hence the name referred to sword and sword-based skills. The recent series of posts on this topic reveals the degree of interest in the subject. James Sy Jr.'s postings are relevant here. As if this wasn't enough - there have been cases of non-Filipino martial artists coming here and asking about kali. Many locals would go - "What are you talking about?" And you have the reply - "It's your martial art, you don't know that?" It's a dialogue like this that raises hackles among many passionate practitioners. In addition, the statement that kali is the mother art also obscures something important to remember: By the time the Spaniards established their presence here, what would become the present-day Philippines was characterized by a large number of ethnic groups, each with their distinct language and culture - and in all likelihood skills in martial arts. This statement needs verification of course, but such diversity is an argument against the likelihood of there being one mother art from which all others came. 2) If kali is used for marketing purposes, then let the buyer beware. I myself am an instructor in an association that has kali in its name - but we are clear that what we do is LSAI arnis and that the kali part of our association name is more a statement of identity. (LESKAS - Lema Scientific Kali Arnis System) 3) As for the younger ones who give off more heat than light - by what standard would you say is a student young? I'm 42 now - I certainly am younger than my teachers and not as young as I used to be. I'm bringing up some younger students and hoping to do a good job. My own interest and inquiry into this subject started with yes, Dan Inosanto's book. Practicing more than arguing about what to call it - ah, now, here we go...Consider this: For many years, what many Pinoys, including myself, had to go on was statements like this. Gradually, many practitioners decided to ask questions and do their own research and eventually share their results (and yes, more questions) with others. More than arguing about what to call the early FMA, it has more to do with many Pinoys finding their voice in a global conversation like this. People like James Sy, PG Mat, Gat Abon, Dr. Ned Nepangue, Celestino Macachor etc., take a stand and say, this is what we found out. If it didn't agree with received wisdom -well isn't that what discovery is all about? Even if many experienced practitioners don't care - many still do and want to know more, hence the research and questioning that still goes on. Now, many of these younger ones practice as much as they write. In fact, much of their contributions come from what they discover during their research and practice. Bot --- Stephen Lamade wrote: > > > With respect to the > additional claim that Kali is the "mother art" of > other Filipino martial > arts systems (a claim not made by Dan Inosanto, I > believe), I think that > most reasonable individuals treat this claim in much > the same matter as they > consider claims of "secret caves" and "Blind > Princesses," etc., i.e. we can > respect the myths of other martial arts without > necessarily subscribing to > them. > > Kali is in fact a "brand" name used for marketing, > and if there are in fact > subsidiary reasons for using this term instead of > other terms, the fact > remains most of the general public are not aware of > the issue and most > experienced practitioners don't care; most of the > heat (but not the light) > is generated by junior practitioners who should > spend more time practicing > their art instead of arguing about what to call it. > > In saying this I do not mean to slight anyone whom, > as Kim states, has taken > the time to try to clarify the issue: blessed be > the peacemakers. I just > think that there is a law of diminished returns when > seeking to convert hay > into gold. > > Best, > > Steve Lamade > > _________________________________________________________________ > PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best Web > mail—award-winning Windows > Live Hotmail. > http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Stephen Lamade" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 13:58:20 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] kali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Maurice Gatdula wrote: "now, i am curious. do you consider me and abon baet to be a "junior practioner"? Of course not. My point was that seeking to convert those who (1) use the "kali is the oldest form of FMA" argument for their own marketing purposes is like trying to change straw into gold. Ditto for those who line up for the Kool-aid. These would be the "junior" practitioners I mentioned in my previous post. Did I mention that "Kool-aid" is the "mother" beverage of all childrens' beverages? (2) A separate issue is whether the use of the term "kali" by certain practitioners is an innocent, benign, and pragmatic choice that simply reflects a recent popular cultural convention. You can't put the "kali" genie back in the bottle any more than you can stop people saying "Coke" when they mean "Pepsi." (3) A third instance of the choice of the term "kali" reflects the desire to replace Spanish-sounding words with those that promote an indigeous Filipino culture. But this is merely a sub-set of either (1) or (2) above, or a subset of a combination of (1) and (2) above. Alternatives to the choice of using "Kali" to describe one's art include: (a) The choice to use an indigenous term to accurately reflect the family, clan, village, or region from which a specific Filipino martial art originates. (b) The choice to use the terms "Arnis" or "Eskrima" to describe one's art because these terms are used frequently and interchangably in the Philippines. (c) The choice not to use any terms for one's art at all and simply say something to the effect of "This is how we do it," or "This is how my teacher taught me, " etc. (d) The choice to make up a term to describe one's art - a term that may or may not be prevail in the popular culture and which may or may not take on a life of its own. But here we come full-circle... Best, Steve Lamade _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:00:04 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Dahon Palay/Lamade Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Fisrt, let me correct my Spelling on my post yesterday. I was in a hurry yesterday, and I am not wearing my reading glasses. But this is not new right? here again my post: Bot. > > It's funny beacused most of the "Panakbat" carrying blades in Quezon, > Laguna Provinces is Dahon Palay and Dahon Buho (Bamboo leaf shape > blades). Becaused this is strickly use for minamal farm work, ,ost ly > for self protection. Becaused as a farmer, if I have to go to Ricefief, > I will wear the "Dahon Buho" or Dahon palay on my waist, and I will > hold,on my hand either "Halabas"blades or large Sickle or Karit (the > Small sickle), depend of what job I had to tackle that day. > > When I go to the Mountain, I will wer my "Panakbat" and my left hand > holding either large "Palakol" Axe , "Lagari" hand Saw for cutting > large trunk of wood, or "Bareta" Metal Bar, "Asarol" Pike, for digging > soil to plant, or Long handle "karit"sickel or wooden "Kawit" hook for > holding vines and grass that covering my plants. > > My brother, older brother Jose was the assitant of the famous "Luis > Panday" in our town, and he made me two blades from Saudi Arabia, one > is "Binakuko" or "Sinampaloc"(Tamarinds shape Blades), and Dahon Palay. I > told him, that i want him to open  "Pandayan" "Blade shop" in Paete > whenever he decide to retire form Saudi Arabia. Dahon Palay is ajust a > perfect wight and size as weapon. Easy to carry and manipulate than any > other blades in Luzon. Good for hacking and thrusting purposes, but is > not good for cutting heavy trunk, sometimes either it well bend or if > the "forged: is not perfect temperature, it will break in half as you > struct the branch of wood. > > Thank you Maurice for answering back to Steve Lamade. I have only simple word for him, steve, your opinion is count & well taken. If you want to dip yourself to the water it's fine, but look at yourself in the water, water can easily drawn you, who do you see in the water?. Simply look at yourself in the mirror, okay? Hmn... what does it means, it's yours to figure it out. If you dont know, Kali-Mutan mo na lang (Forget about it). Be well, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:33:16 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Latigo y Daga Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I am not a big fan of a whip in general, but I will give you a simple answer of the short whip. I don't teach whip, The whip that I know is shorter than any whip you will see out there, its only with the lengths of 28-40 inches. Either made of leather, rattan, Manila hemp, "Natto vine" I don't know what they call it in English. The Punyo is hard wood base 20 inches weave cover with leather, or rattan or abaca hemp, and "nitto vines." The middle of the whip is filled with thick leather or small flexible rattan again is also cover with the same weaving material on the Punyo, and the tip is lose weave leather, or rattan or hemp's and they always have small ball or knot at the end and little tail after the knots. We call it in our town, "Pitik" (Flick). Standard techniques is whipping off-course, for long range, when they go closed range, can go to disarming, choke, punyo strike, etc. Other than this I cant think any more of the other usage of this weapon. Again, I know how to used them, but I am not a big fan of it, even the large whip, don't ask me why, you might get the answer. I will favor the "Lubid" (rope) before "Latigo" (whip). In regards of Latigo y Daga, Anthony D' Longis video is available in most martial art magazine to order. But I also recommended to check my brothers, Kapatid "Chris Sayoc" and Kapatid "Mike Sayoc, even kapatid Raffy Pambuan in this matter. I know they practiced whip and there are excellent whip practitioner. > Be well, > > Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet > Garimot Arnis Training Group International > Laguna Arnis Federation International > US Harimaw Buno Federation > Hilot Research Center USA > Tel. 954-432-4433 > >         I'll keep this short and sweet I am interested in learning the > usage of the Philippine short whip. I have some knowledge of the standard > technique used by the Spanish practitioners, but I was informed that the Latigo y > dagga techniques are different I would appreciate a reply on this subject >                                                                             >                              Salamat po >                                                                             >                               James >       > www.garimot.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:30:35 -0700 (PDT) From: RJ Garcia To: "eskrima martialartsresource.net" Subject: [Eskrima] I just don't know what to think... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Someone in a forum that I frequent posted this for us to read, and I just thought I'd echo it here... http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1948060&highlight=pekiti#post1948060 I don't know... I'm just at a loss... Part of me is thinking that people like that do not deserve to be taught skills that are rooted in a culture that they look down upon. Another part of me though is a bit glad that some of them do see that not all things outside of their race are inferior, where perhaps more exposure to the Filipino martial traditions may open their minds more... While the rest of me... ah, basta. Gumagalang, RJ Garcia Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 14:08:12 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] arnis and kung-fu To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net James: Re Bakbakan International, again you are right. Topher Ricketts, Rey Galang and other Bakbakan members acknowledge their ties to kung fu, Chinatown and ngo cho kun. You, sir, are a wealth of knowledge. Salamat po. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com "james jr. sy" wrote: Hi Sir Jay, Wow, you're really keen Sir. I missed that one. Didn't notice the caps hehehe For me, it was kinda automatic, Modern Arnis = GM Presas. :p Thank you very much. Presas Style Modern Arnis as founded by the late GM Remegio "Remy" A. Presas of Hinigaran didn't have any Chinese animals influence but did have Japanese influences such as Karate, Judo, and Jujutsu. GM Presas was a member of the Philippine Amateur Judo Association (PAJA), the national governing body for Kodokan Judo in the Philippines, and had taught Judo and Arnis at the University of Negros Occidental-Recoletos, the first university in Negros Occidental. For modern arnis, when used as a generic term for 20th Century FMA, that would depend on what style is being talked about. As Master Jay pointed out, Lapunti de Abanico, founded by GMs Filemon Caburnay and GM Johnny Chiuten, and Pronus Supinus, founded by GM Chiuten, are "modern" Cebuano styles of Arnis that have Chinese influences. Another is Tat Kun Tou founded by the late Grandmaster Jose Go in Cebu. Tat Kun Tou is a rendering of the Korean term Tang Soo Do and Japanese Karate-do (same hanja/kanji or Chinese characters). Although the name and the movements are seemingly Chinese, the art was heavily influenced by Balintawak Escrima of GM Go's teacher, Founder GM Venancio Bacon. The Chinese component of Tat Kun Tou is Ngo Cho Kun Kung Fu (5 Ancestors fist) which traces its roots to Southern China (I think) and is actively propagated by the Bakbakan International nowadays. In Bacolod, there are some practitioners of Lapu-Lapu Viñas Arnis who had assimilated Wing Chun techniques within the system. We are aware, however, that Wing Chun doesn't use animal forms. The foreign-influenced FMA Filipino Tang Soo Do founded by Master Elmer V. Montoyo uses a Tang Soo Do base integrated with Filipino, Chinese, Japanese, Indonesian, and Thai concepts, techniques, and philosophy. The Chinese influences include among others Hung Gar, Tai Chi Chuan, and Kung Fu Karato. In Iloilo City, Uno Blanco Arnis has integration of the internal principles of Hsing I Chuan (Mind Intention Boxing) and Tai Chi Chuan (Grand Ultimate Fist). There are more but these are the only ones that come to mind at this moment. Hope this helps. James U. Sy Jr. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 9 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] I just don't know what to think... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 15:21:53 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Someone in a forum that I frequent posted this for us to read, and I just > thought I'd echo it here... > > http://www.storm...troopers A hate group that tried to get a foot-hold here. One of the few times I've kicked someone off. Note I did not say I "had" to kick them off. I did it simply because I wanted to. There is no room for that type of thinking in this world. I cannot control the world (yet ;), but I can control this forum... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 19:47:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tagalog question To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, Just to add some detail: "Bata ko" can also mean that the person referred to is 1) a girlfriend (this tends to be used by males often) 2) a junior gang member, as in "Bata ko yan" (He's with me) and you are the gang head 3) someone who pays squeeze i.e., bribes, as in "Bata yan ni ____" where the blank space refers to the person who receives the squeeze 4) Also one's student in FMA (!), as in "Hoy, bata ko 'yan!" when you run off someone trying to teach your student the secret techniques you hadn't taught them yet ;-) or worse yet, the ones you don't know ;-P Bot --- "Wieneke, Myron" wrote: > Agreed, funny enough filipino slang does use the > phrase "bata ko". (Very hard to translate but > something like "this is my boy") > > -----Original Message----- > From: RJ Garcia > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Sent: Wed May 30 21:46:07 2007 > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tagalog question > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 19:53:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Dahong Palay To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi GatPuno; I saw him yesterday and I asked him where he came from and he said he was from Tarlac. Forgot to ask him if he was from the Ilokano, Kapampangan or Tagalog side :-) Thanks for the reminder about the use of the dahong palay. When your brother opens his shop in Paete, I'm going to do my best to come over :-) Bot --- gatpuno@aol.com wrote: > Bot, > > Its common in Luzon, not only in Tagalog proviinces > the word "kalis" > for itak was used. I live for three months in > Daraga, Albay in Bicol > and there also "Kalis", also interchangeable to > Sundang, Golok, Itak. > > It's funny beacused most of the "Panakbat" carrying > blades in Quezon, > Laguna Provinces is Dahin Palay and Dahon Buho > (Bamboo leaf shape > blades). Becaused this is strickly use for minamal > farm work, ,ost ly > for self protection. Becaused as a farmer, if I have > to go to Ricefief, > I will wear the "Dahon Buno" or Dahon palay on my > waist, and I will > hold,on my hand either "Halabas"blades or large > Sickle or Karit (the > Small sickle), dipend of what job I had to tackle > that day. > > When I go to the Mountain, I will wer my "Panakbat" > and my left hand > holding either large "Palakol" Axe , "Lagari" hand > Saw for cutting > large trunk of wood, or "Bareta" Metal Bar, "Asarol" > Pike, for digging > soil to plant, or Long handle "karit"sickel or > wooden "Kawit" hook for > holding vines and grass that covering my plants. > > My brother older brother Jose was the assitant of > the famous "Luis > Panday" in our town, and he made me two blades from > Saudi Arabia, one > is "Binkuko" or "Simapaloc"(Tamarinds shape Blades), > and Dahon Palay. I > told him, that i want him to open "Pandayan" "Blade > shop" in Paete > whenever he decide to retire form Saudi Arabia. > Dahon Palay is ajust a > perfect wight and size as weapon. Easy to carry and > manipulate than any > other blades in Luzon. Good for hacking and > thrusting purposes, but is > not good for cutting heavy trunk, sometimes either > it well bend or if > the "forged: is not perfect temperature, it will > break in half as you > struct the branch of wood. ____________________________________________________________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:28:09 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] More Indonesian words.... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi GM Mat! As I understand it, the Indonesian National Language gradually underwent changes in spelling after they declared independence in 1945. The Dutch spelling for "tsi" of "tji" gradually became Indonesianized into "ci". The Dutch spelling for "dyo" of "djo" or "jo" was Indonesianized into "yo". The Dutch spelling for "u" of "oe" was Indonesianized back into "u". Thus, the old name of "Silat Tjimande" became "Silat Cimande". "Pentjak Silat" became "Pencak Silat". The city of "Jogjakarta" became "Yogyakarta". The name "Soekarno" became "Sukarno"; "Soeharto" became "Suharto". The name "Oetomo" became "Utomo". As I remember it, the equivalent of "tadyak" in Indonesian is "endyak" (spelled "enjak"). -- __--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: Pananandta@aol.com > Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 14:50:49 EDT > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Senjata/Sendata/Sandata (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 > #173 - 12 > msgs) > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > There are many instances were the "j" in an Indonesian word is > replaced with > "dy". For example: tjak becomes, in Tagalog, "tadyak" a stomping kick. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest