Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 02:58:41 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #177 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Arnis and Kung Fu (bgdebuque) 2. A couple of points (Marc Denny) 3. Philippine horsewhip (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #174 - 15 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 4. Kumpas-kumpasan (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #174 - 15 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 5. Re: Dahong Palay (jay de leon) 6. Re: I just don't know what to think... (jhfischer@fuse.net) 7. Indonesian words (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #175 - 12 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 8. BCC bags bronze (Eskrima-FMA) 9. Pro fight league is a hit (Martial Arts Tournaments) 10. Kali- The Mother Art (Terrence David Reyes) 11. Re: A couple of points (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 01:15:34 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Arnis and Kung Fu Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net How is Sir Elmer James? Can he still put out a candle light with his iron palm from about 1 meter away? I once had the rare honor of taking a shower at his house at Sayo - which used to be one of the toughest areas of Bacolod City. > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 03:21:35 -0700 (PDT) > From: "james jr. sy" > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] arnis and kung-fu > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > The foreign-influenced FMA Filipino Tang Soo Do founded by Master Elmer V. > Montoyo uses a Tang Soo Do base integrated with Filipino, Chinese, Japanese, > Indonesian, and Thai concepts, techniques, and philosophy. The Chinese > influences include among others Hung Gar, Tai Chi Chuan, and Kung Fu Karato. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 06:43:06 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] A couple of points Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: As this conversation continues, I'd like to interject a couple of points quickly. 1) Just as is being discussed fully here that the Kali mother art claim irks those it irks, the current claim by some that the word Kali never existed and is some sort of fraud generated by some Filipinos in Stockton, CA, USA can irk those of us who do use the term. For this poor humble clueless American dog who is terrified of being turned into roadkill trying to navigate the freeways of this perennial conversation, the point that seems as yet unanswered by those who assert that the term itself is a fraud is the fact of the Mirafuentes/Yambao book. 2) As a matter of logic, the question of whether there was SOMETHING prior to the arrival of the Spaniards (seems to me that there surely must have been) is separate from the issue of its name(s). As best as I can tell, in the fecund soup of Filipino linguistics, words and names change quite regularly at a rather rapid clip all the time. Thus, the fact that the references to Arnis prior to Mirafuentes/Yamboa do not prove anything about whether there was an art prior to the Spaniards and whether that something has survived in some form or other until today. 3) I am glad to see that it now seems to be understood that Guro Inosanto was quoting GM Largusa about the history, mother art, etc. and was not taking a position himself. I would like to point out though that although Villabrille-Largusa Kali is one of the main FMA systems to influence Inosanto Blend, the use of the term Kali by Guro Inosanto I would ascribe principally to its use by his principal teacher, Manong John Lacoste, who as has been already noted in this conversation, also used the term eskrima. I could be wrong in this, but my sense of things is that Manong Lacoste did not use the two interchangeably. I do know that as I was packing up my books to empty my office the other day that I ran across my Inosanto Blend Instructor notebook the other day, and the heading for Lacoste, was Kali, not eskrima. In summary: the term Kali did exist in the Philippines. I find unpersuasive the campaign by some researchers that the term itself is some sort of fraud, generated in America or elsewhere. Whatever its names were, "something" existed prior to the Spaniards arrival. Whether some form of that something survives with little or no Spanish influence I have not a clue. Guro Inosanto's use of the term Kali I understand principally to be due to the influence of his teacher Manong John Lacoste. The Adventure continues, Marc/Crafty Dog PS: Kristine, sorry I misascribed certain passage to you! --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 11:08:02 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Philippine horsewhip (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #174 - 15 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi James (Campbell), Before you can learn to use the Philippine horsewhip obviously, you will need to get one. You are in luck. You do not have to get one from the Philippines. Jose (Dong) has a post in the same issue of ED. His email is _nephalim@aim.com_ (mailto:nephalim@aim.com) . He makes Philippine horsewhips (in Long Island, New York!) that are as good if not better than those made in the Philippines. He is a student of a student of mine. He gave me one of his horsewhips and I will recommend his horsewhips with no reservations. He showed me (and 2 others with me) his setup in his basement and even showed us how to make it. He is from Pampanga. It might interest you to know that I started teaching the horsewhip in the US in 1987 and I wrote an article on it in the March 1994 issue of Secrets of the Masters. In 1995, my students sparred with the horsewhips in a demonstration held at the Taj Mahal in Atlantic City during a kyokushinkai tournament. I had to put your last name because there are other EDers who are named "James". Best. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/31/2007 7:12:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: I'll keep this short and sweet i am interested in learning the usage of the phillipino short whip. I have some knowldge of the standard technigue used by the Spanish practioners, but I was informed that the Latigo y dagga techniques are different I would appreciate a reply on this subject Salamat po James ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 11:10:59 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Kumpas-kumpasan (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #174 - 15 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Dong, I remember the plant but not the name. I loved to pop the pods. PO APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/31/2007 7:12:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Po, Besides the "kumpas-Kumpasan", wasn't there also a grasslike plant with seed pods that rattled and grows among the "palat"(abrasive wild grass)? Jose (Dong) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:40:55 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Dahong Palay To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bot: You forgot the Pangasinan side, home to many arnisadors, such as the towns of Manaoag, Malasiqui, Lingayen and others. Yes, will try to journey to Paete next trip, insh'allah, God willing. Jay de Leon www.tipunan.com Felipe Jocano wrote: Hi GatPuno; I saw him yesterday and I asked him where he came from and he said he was from Tarlac. Forgot to ask him if he was from the Ilokano, Kapampangan or Tagalog side :-) Thanks for the reminder about the use of the dahong palay. When your brother opens his shop in Paete, I'm going to do my best to come over :-) Bot --- gatpuno@aol.com wrote: ____________________________________________________________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 17:23:44 -0400 From: To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] I just don't know what to think... Cc: RJ Garcia Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey RJ Garcia, you cannot teach these type of people anything .They only know and understand hate. These are the kind of people that I train hard for the protection of my family and myself.I would not alow them on this furom for any reason.Its hard enough to defend against a knife attack let alone someone who is trained in fma. I hope their comes a day when we see the self destruction of this type of racism ...but I don’t think so . train hard and protect the ones you love . ---- RJ Garcia wrote: > Someone in a forum that I frequent posted this for us to read, and I just thought I'd echo it here... > > http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1948060&highlight=pekiti#pos t1948060 > > I don't know... I'm just at a loss... Part of me is thinking that people like that do not deserve to be taught skills that are rooted in a culture that they look down upon. Another part of me though is a bit glad that some of them do see that not all things outside of their race are inferior, where perhaps more exposure to the Filipino martial traditions may open their minds more... While the rest of me... ah, basta. > > Gumagalang, > RJ Garcia > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 18:07:35 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Indonesian words (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #175 - 12 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net BGdebuque, I have added your post to my notes for possible future use. I think it is a change for the better. They are saving on printing ink by making many words one letter less. It is also good for two-finger typists like me :-) - saves a few keystrokes. But of course, it restores their Indonesian pride because now, they have control over the spellings of their own words. Thanks. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 5/31/2007 11:42:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Hi GM Mat! As I understand it, the Indonesian National Language gradually underwent changes in spelling after they declared independence in 1945. The Dutch spelling for "tsi" of "tji" gradually became Indonesianized into "ci". The Dutch spelling for "dyo" of "djo" or "jo" was Indonesianized into "yo". The Dutch spelling for "u" of "oe" was Indonesianized back into "u". Thus, the old name of "Silat Tjimande" became "Silat Cimande". "Pentjak Silat" became "Pencak Silat". The city of "Jogjakarta" became "Yogyakarta". The name "Soekarno" became "Sukarno"; "Soeharto" became "Suharto". The name "Oetomo" became "Utomo". As I remember it, the equivalent of "tadyak" in Indonesian is "endyak" (spelled "enjak"). ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 15:08:09 -0700 From: Eskrima-FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] BCC bags bronze Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Friday, June 01, 2007 Sun.Star BCC bags bronze in Arnis tourney By Jerome S. Galunan, Jr BACOLOD Christian Center's Horace Rumay Jr. grabbed the bronze medal in the 12 and below category of the 1st Western Visayas Invitational Sports Arnis Tournament held last May 26-27,2007 at the Gaisano Mall Center, Bacolod City. Rumay, a mainstay and incoming freshman of BCC, is being trained and supervised by coach Danilo Cardinal. Cardinal, on the other hand, is the founder and head instructor of Kali Silat. Rumay started playing formal arnis last year as part of the BCC Arnis Team when the event was included in the Deped competition however failed to play after the competition was set only for high school. But during the Chinese New Year celebration, he (Horace) along with teammates performed to the invitation of the Chinese community. Aside from Rumay, other BCC Arnis players seeing action in the tournament were Sophomore Keno Rhey Fuentes and Graders Claire Locsin and Denise Aprielle Santiago. Meanwhile, BCC Arnis counterpart Kali Silat also grabbed 6 gold, 1 silver, and 2 bronze medals. Danny John Cardinal (son of BCC coach Danilo) earned 2 gold in 12 & below and Anyo categories, Ulyses Gargaceran in junior lightweight and Duelo with teammate Marcial Israel, Elizalde Aspan in Sayaw. Grace Amacanin in the other hand, grabbed the silver in the 12 & below girls while Israel and Harold Dulaca took the bronze in junior weight and open category, respectively. At present, BCC Arnis enthusiasts are growing with graders getting into the team. These is one way of proving the how BCC Sports Development program help develop the confidence of its athletes. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 17:58:57 -0700 From: "Martial Arts Tournaments" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Pro fight league is a hit Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pro fight league is a hit John Boyle Herald, Everett, Wash Aaron Stark will step into the ring at the Everett Events Center tonight with his mind set on knocking his opponent unconscious or beating him into submission. The Oregon native is 205 pounds of tough, a fighter in the International Fight League, the world's first team-based professional mixed martial arts league, which is making its first stop in Washington tonight. And Stark's long-term dream: To make world-class pinot noir. Seriously. When he's not busy fighting or training, Stark is the vineyard manager for Colene Clemens Vineyard in Oregon's Willamette Valley. The family-owned vineyard, named for Stark's grandmother, planted pinot noir vines - three different Dijon clones, Stark says with pride - two years ago, and Stark said they hope to produce their first wines next year. Oh yeah, the former college wrestler is also a member of Mensa International, an organization of people with high IQs. While mixed martial arts competitions, best known from the Ultimate Fighting Championships that draw huge crowds and pay-per-view ratings, continue their rapid growth in this country and abroad (see last week's cover of Sports Illustrated as evidence), they also fight constant misconceptions. Gone are the early days of the sport when there were no weight classes and few rules. Despite the violence of the sport - and there's no arguing that it is violent - fighters say the sport is much safer than the casual observer might believe. These are athletes, and well-rounded ones at that, not brawlers. "I do think that's something we're always dealing with," Stark said. "I won't tell you that there aren't any savages in the business, but most of the guys tend to be fairly well-rounded guys outside of the ring. They're guys with families, guys who went to college. I don't have any hatred for my opponents. It's a sport." The IFL's visit tonight gives local fight fans a chance to see the sport up close. The IFL, which started last year and is in its first full season, differs from Ultimate Fighting by being a team sport. Tonight's card features fighters from four of the teams in the 12-team league: Seattle; Portland, Ore.; Los Angeles; and Tokyo. Each team has fighters in five weight classes, and teams win by winning three or more of the five matches. Competitions take place in a round-robin format from January to June, with the top two teams competing for the IFL Championship in September. While the IFL may not have the name recognition of Ultimate Fighting, it is certainly doing well in its first full season. Matches are held in smaller venues, similar in size to the 8,300-seat Everett Events Center, and usually draw between 5,000 and 8,000 fans. The league also has TV contracts with FSN, which airs a weekly show Friday nights, and with MyNetworkTV, which has a two-hour show on Mondays that is part fight action and part a behind-the-scenes look at the league. In the early to mid-1990s, the early days of mixed martial arts in the U.S., fighters could get away with almost anything. The sport was referred to as "human cockfighting" by Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona and was banned in many states before changes were made. Now the sport is regulated. It has weight classes and rules. The IFL's Web site lists 27 actions constituting fouls, including butting with the head, eye gouging, biting, hair pulling, fish hooking, groin attacks of any kind, elbows to the face or head, and - get ready to cringe - intentionally placing a finger in any opponent's orifice. The sport's top athletes are just that: athletes, not barroom brawlers stepping into the ring. Most come into the sport with a background in one fighting discipline and then learn others such as boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, Jiu Jitsu, karate, Muay Thai or tae kwon do. Unlike boxing, mixed martial arts has not had a death in a sanctioned event. "It's definitely not as bad as what people think," said Ryan Schultz, a member of the Portland Wolfpack and one of the league's stars. "We're not just brutes up there beating the crap out of each other. We're all friends. It's totally a sport. Most of us, we're pretty easygoing guys." The IFL is also unique in that is provides a steady fight schedule and steady pay. While the top fighters on pay-per-view fights are making good money, other fighters can struggle to find fights at all, let alone fights that pay well. IFL fighters, on the other hand, have contracts with the league that provide a steady paycheck and health benefits. "I've fought all over the place, in Japan, Hawaii, Canada, just looking for fights," said Schultz, who wrestled at the University of Nebraska. "With this league it's great. With IFL, you can plan your life a little bit better. You know when you're fighting. They take care of us." That financial security is something some fighters never thought they'd get from fighting. "My first five fights were for free," said Brad Blackburn, an Olympia native who fights for the Seattle Tiger Sharks. "Now I'm getting paid enough to pay my bills. I was hoping one day it would pay, but I never really thought it would. I'm getting paid to go out and do something I love." Controversial or not, the sport on display tonight in Everett seems here to stay. "This sport is definitely blowing up," Schultz said. "It's fun to be on that train. It's exciting; you can definitely see the change in how popular it's becoming. I think it's here to stay and I see it doing big, big things." More about the sport Fighting styles used: Boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, Jiu Jitsu, karate, Muay Thai and tae kwon do are the most prominent — also judo, aikido and others. How a fight is won: Matches are won by knockout, technical knockout (referee or corner stoppage), submission or tap out (when an athlete resigns the match because he is in a compromised hold or choke), or a judge's decision. The team that wins the best three of five matches wins the team competition. Common terms Armbar: A type of armlock in which the arm is hyper-extended at the elbow in order to get an opponent to submit or tap out. Ground-and-pound: A technique in which an athlete gains an advantage through a takedown, assumes a top position and strikes down on the opponent. Heelhook: A submission hold applied on the heel and then fully accomplished by twisting the knee at the joint. Submission hold: A choke or joint manipulation that is meant to cause an opponent to submit or tap out. Tap/tap out: An act of submission or giving up in which an opponent, hopelessly captured in a submission hold or being pummeled by strikes, taps the mat or his opponent in lieu of blacking out or risking bodily harm. Takedown: The act of putting your opponent to the floor with a tackle, sweep, Greco-throw or other technique, typically involving the legs. IFL timeline Jan. 6, 2006: Real estate developer and martial arts aficionado Kurt Otto and Gareb Shamus, founder of Wizard Entertainment, announce the creation of the International Fight League. The IFL will field four teams (Los Angeles, New York, Seattle and Moline, Ill.) and play host to two national tournaments in 2006 before formally launching a full season in 2007. April 29, 2006: The IFL makes its debut at the Taj Mahal in Atlantic City, N.J. The Quad Cities Silverbacks post a 4-1 win over the Los Angeles Anacondas, and the Seattle Tiger Sharks edge the New York Pitbulls 3-2. June 2-Nov. 20, 2006: The league expands to 12 teams for the 2007 season, adding franchises in Portland, Ore.; Tokyo; Toronto; San Jose, Calif.; Tucson, Ariz.; Orange County, Calif.; Chicago; and in Nevada. Nov. 29, 2006: The IFL begins trading as a public company under the OTC Bulletin Board ticker symbol (IFLI: OTC.BB). Jan. 19, 2007: The IFL holds its inaugural regular-season event at The Oracle Arena in Oakland, Calif., where the Toronto Lions defeat the San Jose Razorclaws and the Southern California Condors beat the Seattle Tiger Sharks. Today: The IFL comes to the Everett Events Center. Source: The IFL --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 19:45:55 -0700 From: "Terrence David Reyes" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Kali- The Mother Art Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Much has been written and discussed on Kali as the Mother Art, yet nothing written nor discussed regarding the "Father" art. I'd also be interested in the origins of the brother and sister arts too, not to mention the Uncle and Auntie arts. Save for another time I gather, Best Regards, David Reyes Stockton, CA --__--__-- Message: 11 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A couple of points To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 20:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > taking a position himself. I would like to point out though that although > Villabrille-Largusa Kali is one of the main FMA systems to influence > Inosanto Blend, the use of the term Kali by Guro Inosanto I would ascribe > principally to its use by his principal teacher, Manong John Lacoste, who as > has been already noted in this conversation, also used the term eskrima. Did Danny spend all that much time training with Johnny? Johnny was in Stockton and Danny wasn't, so they were ~5 hours apart. Danny, Johnny, Al Concepcion and others that lived in Stockton got together in the park near his mom's house to train when Danny would come up to visit her. The rest of the time it was Johnny and the other Stockton locals lucky enough to get some of Johnny's time. The story goes that once Johnny agree to train you, it was 24-7, sorta... If you were in a local store and he saw you, he would sneak up and attack you just to see how well you'd react. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest