Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 03:05:23 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #185 - 3 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Gwai Loh KF part 5 (Marc Denny) 2. Salakab/tungya (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #184 - 13 msgs) (Pananandta@aol.com) 3. Salakab and more.. (gatpuno@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 04:54:25 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Gwai Loh KF part 5 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof Jay: Baaad Dog! ;-) Yip! CD > From: jay de leon > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Gwai Loh Kung Fu :-) > > So was she impressed with the kung fu you used on her? > Did she find it impeccable? > > Marc Denny wrote: > Woof All: > > Back in the mid 80s I had a Chinese girlfriend (born and raised in Taiwan) > and via her had some exposure to things Chinese. (I picked up a smattering > of Mandarin, started going to Chinese doctors in Monterrey Park, the time > spent with her friends, things of that sort). My understanding is the Kung > Fu means a skill of depth that can acquired over time and with a certain > "impeccability" ;-) > This kung fu skill may be martial arts or it might also apply to something > which has nothing to do at all with martial arts. > > yip! >CD --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:05:37 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Salakab/tungya (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #184 - 13 msgs) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Dong, Jay, James, Dong's guess was peripheral. The salakab is used downward and the tungya is used upward. James is right. Both are fishing tools. Jay hit it on the button. Salakab is cylindrical and made of bamboo sticks (the diameter of barbeque spits but much longer) arranged around 4 rings with an open top (as the 4th ring). The salakab is used in the shallow waters of rice paddies. It is about 2 feet high designed for even young boys to reach down to touch the ground. Hence it cannot be used in river waters. It is thrust into the water to trap a fish. The fish is then grab through the open top and put in a buslo (a basket woven container made of crisscrossing patterns of thin bamboo strips that has a narrow waist provided with a cover and a strap for carrying on the shoulder). A number of things comes to light. Dong's province Pampanga has a common boundary with my province Nueva Ecija. He would be expected to get very close with his guess. His guess was peripheral. James is from Southern Philippines and is very well travelled and I didn't expect him to have a clue. James from the scholarly way he writes must also be a wide reader. Jay, from what I can gather, from the scholarly way he writes must also be a wide reader. Jay, I think is also well traveled having lived in Cotabato but went to school in Manila. Dong is a craftsman of great skill. Their knowledge of the meanings of the words are of different degrees. By the same token, the knowledge of the existence of the names of the words used to refer to Philippine stick and knife fighting can be blurry for some, almost known to some and very definite for some others. If there is a dictionary for all the dialects in the Philippines, there will be common words with the same spelling that might have the same meanings but then there are also words that might have acquired different meanings (over time) such as kali. There will be also words that are totally foreign to each dialect. Hence, it will not be safe to make the conclusion that a word does not exist because it is not in a particular dialect's dictionary. A good way to check would be to create a database of all dialects separately, then merged, then sorted alphabetically. (Fields names could include:word, meaning, name of dialect; primary sort will be word and the secondary sort will be dialect) But then there will be words that could fall between the cracks. Kali, with the meaning that has been attached to it as a martial art, could be one of these words. This could lead to the conclusion that the word kali does not exist. Dong, you didn't have to wait till October. Tungya is used in rivers. Ateneo and LaSalle are both Catholic schools. They are two of the best schools in the Philippines. Thanks guys. APMarinas Sr. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 3 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 09:39:21 -0400 From: gatpuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Salakab and more.. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sorry for missing out, I just come back from Chicago visit. First: Salakab is a Bamboo Hand Trap, weaved in together in cylindrical form, using rattan, and Bamboo. Used by local villager to catch "Mud fist" Catfish, Gurami and Eel, usually use only to the swallow muddy water. Tungyas is not known in Laguna (It might be a local names only), but if I would assume you are talking about what we call is "Baklad" or "Bunkatot" or "Pasadsaran" a Bammboo Traps that set on the the deeper water, made of Bamboo mat, and nitto vines, or Rattan set to catch more large amount or massive school of fish in the deeper water that Salakab cannot be used. Growing up as a Rice Farmer and Fisherman in Laguna de Bay, I used this "Salakab" during the rainy season when the water start to raised from the west wind (Habagat) season. Now in regards of the Yambao.. I would Dis-agree, to you PG Marinas to put to rest the research where Yambao got his claimed. I thought you read the book and study for almost 30 years? It is clearly said on the book, that the first person who said the word "Kali" is the frist name for Arnis is Father Gregorio Aglipay, but Father Aglipay dont have the reference where he got the names, also he is the one who said the other name in Visaya and other part of the Philippines. . Now also not all Stickfighting Tournament is done in Cockfighting Arena. In Laguna, Rizal, Cavite, Quezon, and Batanggas is all done in Town Plaza. In some parts of Laguna when the Government is giving us a hard time to get some permit, We do it the old ways in the "Mountain". That the reason why the Doce Pares of Laguna was organized in the Mount Banahaw. I would assume, that Yambao dont even got to our place, or even joined the Doce Pares Challenge in Laguna. becaused there none mentioned of such group. Its okay, It does not matter, its common to the Philippines, there is no much TV or Radio coverage the tournaments. . You know its easy to claimed as such is only remained claimed. Sample now a days everyone founding their own system side by side, here and there and not only that for "Marketing" strategy they will put on their flyer "Traditional" or Authentic or even "World Champion" Stickfighter. To be Traditional, it shoulkd be pass on to you by your ancestors from Fatehr to Son, But look at them, their techniques can barely kill a fly.. I am sick of it.. I agree to the point to study the arts, instead of looking at the name, but when they "phrase" that claimed is a damn lie, why we have to suck it. Someone has to stop it and expose that lie. And I would be the first one to support that action. Atleast in Japanese and Chinese martial Arts, they all came in one lineage, Filipino Martial Arts is hard to get the truth lineage, becaused everyone want to be the top of the their group or their system. I am not surprise because they can.. Unless someone to stop them, this will continue and you know what FMA is not the same FMA (Add Karate, Kung Fu, and more). They lost the value, the genltleman pride, the fighter pride, now a lot of us just stand there hate to be in the middle of the confrontation, they might test my skill and I am not sure what to do. Let me shut up and be friends with this so called Grandamster, Master Fighters and so called Champion in Filipino Martial Arts so they can be friend with me and start networking with them. It a natural to all Old Eskrimadores that not get along, it a Eskrima nature, look at the Granfather speak that Dog Brother made, its caught in tape all of the GM as saying.. none of them, agree to each other, Well I have to stop, I just want to put that out of my system.. To me FMA is is not sport its is a value of life and one culture. To be come one you must understand the nature of the arts.. Conflict..; Peace, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com Hi Dong, EDers are probably wondering why I asked for the meaning of two “local” Tagalogs words that were used in my village. I wanted to stress a point. The two words were/are used in my village. And I did not expect anybody to know what they are except those who are/were from my village. My world (a small portion of my village Pambuan) when I was growing up consists of a cluster of about 25 houses. Most of these houses own a “salakab”. Only my grand uncles own “ tungyas”. (Dong take a hint.) Now, if you take a look at a map of the Philippines, you will see that you can walk from up the North from the Ilocos region to the South (Marinduque). After this, if you want to go any farther East, West, or farther South you either have to swim or ride a boat. Swimming is kind of dangerous because of sharks and the rough seas. Boat rides are expensive and boats are almost always overloaded and it is not infrequent that such boats sink with great loss of lives. Placido Yambao fought in tournaments in the Old Olympic Stadium. He also fought in many provinces. Hence, he had come in contact with “locals” whose “ local” words for stick and knife fighting could have been the same as his or very much different. This should explain why he did not cite any sources of the names he mentioned in his book. It was his personal experience hearing these names. His source was first-hand. I doubt even today if anybody who went to a given province to fight would bother to take note of whom he talked to and who said what name. One would not think about these things when one’s head could be split open or when one could possibly be maimed for life in an upcoming fight. One cannot be blamed for not writing bibliographies during these times. Incidentally, I have not heard of fighters from farther South fighting in the Olympic Stadium. There is also no mention of Placido Yambao going to the Visayan Islands to fight. There is a simple explanation: In his time, inter-island travel was expensive, dangerous, and took a long time even in the best of weather (and the Philippines is well known for its typhoons and its rough seas) conditions. Thus, a match between the best Cebuano fighter of the time and Placido Yambao had no realistic chance of having taken place. Remember, these fighters are either farmers or fishermen and they had to provide for their families. But of course, people from the surrounding towns of nearby provinces would be gathering at the tournament site and they would have brought with them some more “names”. Why would they bother to come? In the old days in the Philippines, aside from cockfighting & boxing, stick fighting was the only game in town. (Most stick fighting tournaments were held in cockfighting arenas that also doubled as boxing arenas.) I never questioned the names listed in Yambao’s book nor did I give any thought to its lack of bibliography. Placido Yambao was a well-traveled man. I have no doubt that this have been overlooked by those who find his book wanting of a bibliography. With this explanation, I suggest that the search for the “sources” of the names that Placido Yambao listed in his book be put to rest. Better would be the study of his techniques. Going back to Dong: Sorry, I cannot give the answer yet :-)). I have to give others a chance to make a wild guess. I will tell you the meanings in October when I go to New York to conduct a seminar. By the way, I can understand Dong's dialect, Pampango. In my village both Tagalog and Pampango (by the village elders) are spoken. Best. APMarinas Sr. In a message dated 6/7/2007 7:16:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Po, I'll make a wild guess. Would it have something to do with a particular object's oreintation? Does "salakab" mean "facing downward" and "tungya" as "facing upward". If not, sirit na (I give up)! ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. =0 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest