Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:17:05 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #188 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. the origin of kali - a straight forward answer (Red Gonzales) 2. Re: the origin of kali - a straight forward answer (Felipe Jocano) 3. Re: Kali (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: After Kamote comes Kali (again???) (Felipe Jocano) 5. Mirafuerte and GM Trias (gatpuno@aol.com) 6. Re: arnis (Felipe Jocano) 7. Database Filipiono wrods. (gatpuno@aol.com) 8. Re: Meaning of FMA or names of FMA (Felipe Jocano) 9. Re: Kali (iPat) 10. Re: karatefication or arnisification (Felipe Jocano) 11. Re: Karate & Arnis (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #183 - 10 msgs) (Felipe Jocano) 12. Re: Karate & Arnis (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #183 - 10 msgs) (Felipe Jocano) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 02:18:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Red Gonzales To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] the origin of kali - a straight forward answer Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net i found this while surfing. i copy paste it here for what’s its worth. =========== AllExperts > Experts Experts: Martial Arts Volunteer Answers to one of thousands of questions Topic: Martial Arts Expert: David Belanger Date: 4/9/2004 Subject: origin of kali Question Can you tell me the specific origin of kali? Get the answer below Answer Actually, kali probably does not originate in the Philippines. There is very little documented history of the islands, and the most common names for the martial arts of the Archipelago were not given by the natives. The term "kali" may have originated from tjakalele, indonesion fencing. Or it could be a derivitive of 'kalis' a long bladed sword with a wave in it. In any case, the term kali was not applied to any native martial art of the Philippines until Americans started showing an interest in Filipino martial arts shortly after WW2. For more info, check out 'Filipino Martial Culture' by Mark Wiley. Hope this helps, Dave ================= --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 06:15:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] the origin of kali - a straight forward answer To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net With all due respect, that comes from the history section of GM Remy Presas' book. In actuality, tjakelele is mentioned in Draeger's book on Indonesian silat as actually being a war dance. Bot --- Red Gonzales wrote: > i found this while surfing. i copy paste it here > for what’s its worth. > > =========== > > AllExperts > Experts > > Experts: Martial Arts > Volunteer > Answers to one of thousands of questions > > Topic: Martial Arts > > Expert: David Belanger > Date: 4/9/2004 > Subject: origin of kali > > Question > Can you tell me the specific origin of kali? > > Get the answer below > > Answer > Actually, kali probably does not originate in the > Philippines. There is very little documented history > of the islands, and the most common names for the > martial arts of the Archipelago were not given by > the natives. The term "kali" may have originated > from tjakalele, indonesion fencing. Or it could be a > derivitive of 'kalis' a long bladed sword with a > wave in it. > In any case, the term kali was not applied to any > native martial art of the Philippines until > Americans started showing an interest in Filipino > martial arts shortly after WW2. > For more info, check out 'Filipino Martial > Culture' by Mark Wiley. > Hope this helps, > Dave > > ================= > > > --------------------------------- > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://ph.mail.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------- > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://ph.mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 06:44:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Pat: Hope you don't mind my jumping in your discussion with James, but what is your source for this statement? Got me very interested... Bot > > > it was not Placido Yambao, but his editor, > Buenaventura Mirafuente, > who wrote that kali was the original name of arnis > at the time the > Spaniards came. Mirafuente did the research on the > history of arnis > and wrote it many years prior to the book's > publication in 1957. So it > was an old manuscript they had which was written > long before the book > came into being- i've read 30 years but cannot find > the link to back > that up. > > So we can now accept that the term Kali first came > from Filipinos who > were based in the Phillipines. I cant tell you > anything of > Mirafuente's history. I would be interested in > hearing it. > > -- > Pat Davies > www.amag.org.uk > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 06:55:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] After Kamote comes Kali (again???) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Alex, bgdebuque: Reading your posts reminds me of that oooooold song by the Juan dela Cruz Band...the one that goes, "Umuwi ka na lang at magtanim ka ng kamote! (Kamote!)" And if that melody gets into your head while reading this, you'll realize how old you are :-) Bot --- bgdebuque wrote: > It might be the easy way out in Laguna... but not in > the Ilonggo-speaking > parts of the country. > > Once the "kamote" (Visayan sweet potato) root has > grown, you have to "KALI" > (dig) it out... =[:->] > > Now, there are three (3) general approaches of doing > "kali" on the > "kamote"... The first one is bare-handed... The > second one is using a > sharpened wooden or bamboo stick... The third one is > using a metal blade... > > Isn't it interesting how the act of doing "kali" on > the "kamote" seem to > mimic the favorite topics on the FMA??? > > =[:->] > > > Or go home and Plant > > Kamote!!!! As we say it in Laguna. > > > > Cheers! > > Alex Ercia > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html --__--__-- Message: 5 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:25:11 -0400 From: gatpuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Mirafuerte and GM Trias Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pat Davis, Yes, off-course we knows and it been said that "Kali" was claimed first by Filipino recorded in Yambao's Book. I will repeat them again, The first one who call this term is "Father Greogrio Aglipay" the first Filipino Protestant Priest, founded the Iglesia Filipina Indipediente (Philiipines Independent Church). He was said that on 1610 "Kali" is the first name of Filipino Matial Arts. But the claimed is "bias", is like a"Myth" instead of reality. Since there are no evidence of the word to be called as the FMA. Also we want just to make it clear, that everything you see and read is true. We also try to stop is the claimed to be the first name of theart arts and the mother arts, the purer, such a claimed that make Arnis and other FMA second or came from it.. Maybe you have to go back to the old post and re-read what you read, it was said many times. Ray, I have to asked that to my student and direct Kyosi Able and GM Bowles the Hear of the Shorin Ryu System in the US. Its nice to know that he is a great boxer. I admired their organization, their are not as big as Tae Kwondo, but I fount it very well organized with keeping the lineage of their system. This is what I want to happen to my own organization, Solid groups, and they support each other as family. NIce comment, now I am ointrigue to chect that truth.. Peace, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com it was not Placido Yambao, but his editor, Buenaventura Mirafuente, who wrote that kali was the original name of arnis at the time the Spaniards came. Mirafuente did the research on the history of arnis and wrote it many years prior to the book's publication in 1957. So it was an old manuscript they had which was written long before the book came into being- i've read 30 years but cannot find the link to back that up. So we can now accept that the term Kali first came from Filipinos who were based in the Phillipines. I cant tell you anything of Mirafuente's history. I would be interested in hearing it. -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk > owned by Sensei John Segars 4rth degree Blackbelt in Shorin Ryu Karate. > A very well organized US Karate Organization Found by GM Trias. He took > me as a white belt, and every class there is a 15 minutes sparring, ... Master Robert Trias was one of the very early karate people in the US. The problem was he never really studied karate very long (maybe 2 yrs) before moving back to the US and opening up a dojo in Arizona. He was, however, a pretty fair boxer in his younger days... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:20:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] arnis To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Depending on the source, since there are claims that Spanish fencing influenced the FMA by a process of osmosis and imitation (for a detailed explanation, look for C. Macachor and N. Nepangue's book - I think they have it there), there is a distinct possibility that the magic circle influenced the training methods of some FMA systems. At least one teacher I know has a training circle painted on the floor of the gym. But then again, the idea of a circle isn't only found in Spanish fencing. There are similar motifs in Chinese wushu systems, the bujutsu ryu of Japan, the various ryu of karate and yes, even the different systems of silat all over SEA. The important thing to remember is not that there is a circle, but how it's usage in theory, tactics, strategy and doctrine. Here is where a discussion on the link between Spanish fencing and particular schools of the FMA will be productive as in comparing the use of the circle, assuming that the particular FMA style in question does use the circle; and assuming also that the exponents of that FMA style will tell you about the use of the circle if you're not a member of the group, since this sort of knowledge tends to be kept rather close. Myself, I've used a square :-) which may mean something about my character? :-) Bot --- steve mulligan wrote: > Hello, does anyone know of a connection between > the Magic Circle of Spanish > fencing, and the FMA..... thanks, Steve > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 --__--__-- Message: 7 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:30:56 -0400 From: gatpuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Database Filipiono wrods. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net PG Mat, Bot, Jay, Alex, James, Bo, This is the best "contribution" we can do to all Filipino and non Filipino have the same interest to Filipino Multi Dialect database. On our Paetenains website, we have already gather our local words that somewhat claimed to be original words used only in our town Paete (www.paete.org). I dont mind to contribute to the efforts, even by financial means. We can get this goin, maybe a project of a lifetime and let be the next generation continues of keeping, or even a hard copy like a book form is also would be nice. We both know how to published a book already, and Kapatid Jay is a very good writer himself, Bot, James and Bo can help us in the Philippines actuially gatehring more info, if all of you are are interested to this effort. Alex ercia and kapatid Alex France I know will support us in this matter, Kapatid Nate Defensor is a very supportive borhter, so I can see that if we start this other are willing to help. I know Guro Inosanto and other Filipino Martial Base here in US would love tosee this materialized. For the first time a group hh, not only one person project, its is almost imposssible to complete, but if we dont start now or act on it, this will never happen. Its easy tosaid than done, that why I am taking the initiative to push all of your botton. We can finally see and learn our own Filipino Dialect. its gonna be a lot of money and time but I am confident this effort will be worth doing. PG Mat, you got the point, I do beleived that in the ancient time, the FMA is not only come with one name, so is not fair to be claimed the mother arts is this word, since we are multi race. I wont not be surprise if our martial arts is even no name at all, and later we as we go along, we call it generic term, like Pananadata, Pangangarmas, (used of weapons) Pananaga,(Bolo slashing) Pamamaston, (used of Stick or cane) Paninibat, (used of Spears) Pamamana,(use of Bow and arrow0 Pananaksak,(used of knife) Panununtok,(used of Fist) Paninipa, Pananadyak(used of Kick), Pambubuno,(used of Wrestling or Grappling) in Tagalog. Its more likely no argument on the used of this name, and the Visayan, can call it Pangamot, PangMuton, PangDumog in that case.. Everyone is happy no one is superior or first art, since we all born in new generation. We can't even staright up our own History, that shows that we are alot to consider.. Now we can go on and start this a "Key", and is not gonna be easy, a lot of them still gonna be the oppsition. but hey we know that this is for the best for all of us. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com t is more likely that each dialect had its own name for the FMA in ancient times. It is also possible, that within each dialect, that there could have been more than one name for the FMA. It will not be possible to say that one name is the forerunner of another name because our Filipino ancestors was not known for good record keeping. They kept everything in their heads and did not bother to write. When they got "untog" they forgot what was in their heads and they got all mixed up. "Untog - bangs head accidentally on a hard object or worse got hit with a yantok on the head.) I am assuming that present-day FMA practitioners chose the name (for their system) that they are most comfortable with. I chose pananandata for this reason. It will not be too difficult to come up with a "universal database". The only problem is money. There are many brilliant young students in the Philippines who would love to do such work. One possible way would be for a mentor in a university to assign the creation of the database to a graduate student who is looking for a topic for his dissertation/thesis. The initial effort should have modest goals: Start with any existing dictionaries of different dialects. In the meantime, there will be concurrent work on the preparation of other dictionaries and so on. Eventually the "universal database" will become a reality. I can direct the effort but I don't live in the Philippines anymore and it will require a great deal of sacrifice at the expense of my family. Best. APMarinas Sr. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:07:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Meaning of FMA or names of FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Alex, Jokes about the Juan dela Cruz band aside, people are interested in the question of history, origins etc. It's one way of asserting local identity (without lifting the stick if you know what I mean). On another level, discussions like this are as much for us as for our fellow non-Pinoy practitioners. its partly about answering the question "Sa atin ba talaga 'yan?" (Is that really ours?). It's also about a local reaction to a situation brought about by our colonial education, namely the long-held perception that many of our local traditions don't come from us - and in some sources, that includes our beloved FMA. For these reasons (and for some others which I don't have the time to put here yet, nagmamadali as usual [in a hurry again]), I think this discussion is useful in its own way... Ensayo? Tara! :-) Bot --- Alex Ercia wrote: > Hey guys! > > I have so much respect for your many comments/idea > of the FMA. Here's one > quote that I admired today from GP Abon Baet who is > one of my great brothers > and mentors in the Laguna arts: > "To me FMA is is not sport its is a value of life > and > one culture. To be come one you must understand the > nature of the > arts.. Conflict.... > ----------Gat Puno Abon Baet > of the Garimot system > > I know we have had a lot of sharing be it good or > bad and confrontational > about who, which or what the name of our filipino > art should be. Be it Kali, > Eskrima/Esgrima/Escrima, Arnis/Arnis de mano, > Garote, Espada y > daga/Ginunting dagaso/Olisi Baraw. See there is also > Yahming and others. > Here's one quote from a very knowledgable person I > also admire and he says > this about FMA: > > "There are many names for FMA. Yahming, Kali, Arnis, > Eskrima you name it we > have it. But these may not sometimes be the truth in > our time and place. Why > because all of these were true in the other > generations and groups in our > own time and place. Be it Luzon, Visayas, Mindanao, > and outside the > Philippines. It just goes in a circle. Sometimes we > call it arnis, sometimes > eskrima sometimes kali, and so on. It like saying > You are Alex. when your > dad gets mad it's Alexander!!!!!!!!! When your girl > calls you it's Lex. When > your buddy calls you it's > Lexy/A-hole/Alex/Biatch/MF/Baboy/Taba/Fatso. It's > just one of those names. So take all the names. > because in the Thesaurus one > word may have similar meanings or refer to one > thing. And that is Filipino > martial Culture for you. Serrada/Cerrado/Sarado you > get my drift." > > -------------------Kalaki > Master Inoncencio "Sioc" Glaraga. > > We are all learning FMA for our own reasons. Some > are Warriors at heart. > Others for Fitness. And others are Fighters. Some of > us are all of the above > but we also want to preserve the legacy of our > culture or adopted culture. > Preserve and hand down the legacy and knowledge to > the next generation which > is my purpose as a Warrior/Fighter and practitioner > of Arnis. If we are like > the above. Rank, Titles, Certificates and let's not > forget Names of our arts > is not important to us. Because at the end of each > practice session. When we > go get some beers and drink. Does the beer you drink > have one name or a few? > Even Coke has so many names I am still trying to > catch up with it. So like > Filipinos let's drink to this. We all love the FMA. > Or go home and Plant > Kamote!!!! As we say it in Laguna. > > Here's a quote from me: Tama na yan mga pare. Pare > pareho yan. Ensayo na > lang tayo para gumaling tayo. (That's enough guys! > Let's just train so we > all get better) > > > Next Topic Please! > > Cheers! > Alex Ercia > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don’t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other > great prizes from Microsoft > Office Live > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:31:26 +0000 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net thought you would have known! ; ) sure: http://www.tipunan.com/Publications/martial_arts/fma_books.html http://www.bakbakan.com/mai2004.htm On 6/11/07, Felipe Jocano wrote: > Hi Pat: > > Hope you don't mind my jumping in your discussion with > James, but what is your source for this statement? Got > me very interested... > > Bot -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:38:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] karatefication or arnisification To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi James, Sicne you mentioned this, we were once with the late GM Lema on a trip to Quiapo to buy some stuff, and we ran into another old man who remembered Mang Ben from the time they did karate together. I have a video of Mang Ben doing the empty hand defenses of LSAI and the student doing the commentary mentioned at one point that the particular hand techniques the GM was doing in one of the defense series came from shorin-ryu karate. What is telling about the extent of the karatefication of arnis can be seen in the fact that in some demonstrations of arnis forms (note - there is no agreement about the term to use for form either. That's for another discussion! ;-> ) some exponents do sinawali while stepping in the H-pattern of pinan/heian shodan (shorin/shotokan). Bot > > > Arnis Philippines Capiz Commissioner GM Carlito > Ondillo of the Lightning Scientific Arnis > International-Capiz Chapter uses Karate striking > techniques to supplement the empty handed techniques > of the late Founder Grandmaster Benjamin Luna Lema’s > art. > > Some Arnisadors/Eskrimadors who had only practiced > purely weaponed styles of FMA supplement their > arsenal with Karate, Judo, and Jujitsu techniques. > Some Karatekas on the other hand supplemented their > empty hands skills with weapons work. > > If one wants to integrate Karate into Arnis or > vice versa, it must be remembered that both arts > have a different structures. Very apparent > immediately is the stance. Arnis is strong side > forward like Wing Chun while Karate is strong side > backwards like western Boxing. You can usually know > if the base of an Arnisador is Karate when he holds > his stick in the right hand and leads with his left > foot (just rough general estimation but not all). > > Some groups had chosen to integrate kicking into > their stickfighting like the Lahos-Sipa in San > Carlos City and Fight Club in Bacolod City > (primarily an MMA gym). > > Personally I have doubts kicking especially when > what is used is a live hard stick (like tula-tula) > or blade. Some low kicks or sweeps would work out > well while in close. The hiki-te of Karate works > well in up close immobilization of the opponent’s > weaponed hand using one’s live hand (as the case in > Presas Style). > > At the other end we also have Arnisadors who cross > train in Western Boxing or boxers who train in > Escrima like Flash Elorde of Cebu and Manny “Pacman” > Pacquiao of General Santos. There’s a link at > Eskrima Digest that carries a story on the > contribution of FMA to modern Queensbury Boxing. > > Regards, > > James U. Sy Jr. > Conceptual Martial Arts Society (CMAS), Inc. > > > Felipe Jocano wrote: I have > a question for everyone: if you had ever > practiced karate and arnis together, has one > influenced the other? In what way? For instance, has > arnis been karatefied, so to speak? I would suppose > it > has to some extent, given the use of belts, > uniforms, > etc by many arnis systems - but if you could call > this > karatefication, has it also expressed itself in some > other way? > > On the other hand, has your practice of karate been > arnisified, so to speak (what a lousy term, but what > the hey, until someone suggests a better one)? As in > drills and kumite that have a flowing flavor akin to > espada y daga etc.? > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast > > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:00:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Karate & Arnis (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #183 - 10 msgs) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi to all karatefied arnisadors or arnisified karateka ;-) Interestingly, many of you guys mentioned that you didn't do much kata anymore but that in a sense, your karate flowed more, if that's the right thing to say. yet, how about your kata applications, or bunkai? Didn't arnis influence the way you approached your system's applications of kata? Or how about this - a lot of self defense articles in magazines featuring defense against weapons from a karate standpoint feature the weapon wielder using a very telegraphed technique. Granted, this is a magazine article so the technique has to be exaggerated in order to demonstrate, etc., etc., but has anyone ever explored the possibilities of using karate against an arnisador who uses his/her weapons the way they were taught, i.e., constant flow of strikes, etc.? If so, what were the results (apart from bumps and bruises :-> )? PG Mat mentioned doing gojushiho using a balisong in each hand. I found that interesting... Bot ____________________________________________________________________________________ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:50:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Karate & Arnis (Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #183 - 10 msgs) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi PG Mat: How about arnate? :-) Interestingly, shotokan as a style seemed to have entered both ends of the social spectrum. Thus, yes, there were and still are shotokan karate groups in the various richie schools all over Metro Manila. Then on the other end, there were the clubs for the masses. An example is a club in Cubao, called People's Martial Arts (PMA), offering instruction in shotokan, judo, kickboxing, etc. At one point,they were offering training in hapkido & aikido. I don't find that many shorin-ryu groups except maybe as private clubs. Same for wado-ryu, kyokushinkai and isshin-ryu. I visited my relatives in Iloilo once and I heard from my cousins that tang soo do is really well entrenched in the Visayas and Mindanao... Another example of a certain degree of karatefication: Our system has belt ranks - white, brown, black and red. The GM alone wore a red and gold belt. Even the adoption of the title GM...Beyond that, LSAI arnis still retains the characteristics of Ilonggo FMA, except for some hand techniques from karate and throws from judo adopted for arnis. Bot --- Pananandta@aol.com wrote: > Hi Bot, > > What do you get when you cross karate and arnis? > KArnis? Karatenis? > > Martial artists will always be looking for things to > do differently and are > likely to adopt ideas/movements from martial arts > other than what they started > with. > > Those photos were many years and many pounds ago. I > did not expect you to > have them. > > I am not surprised that shotokan has become popular. > When I was with the > Commando Karate Club, shotokan was really pushing to > get more students. Hence, > shotokan usually held tournaments in one of the > richie schools such as La > Salle. Jay, did they hold tournaments in your > richie school Ateneo? > > The Philippines' owe Sensei Latino Gonzales and his > family a great deal of > thanks. I do and I hope that their family had aged > well. I have never failed to > mention his name in my book. > > Rene has a law degree from UP. > > Best. > > APMarinas Sr. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest