Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 02:58:31 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #189 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Gwai Lows screw up again (Felipe Jocano) 2. Re: the origin of kali - a straight forward answer (Felipe Jocano) 3. Re: Number of dialects (jay de leon) 4. Re: Kali (jay de leon) 5. Re: Kali (Felipe Jocano) 6. Re: After Kamote comes Kali (again???) part 2 (Felipe Jocano) 7. Re: How about KALInga? (bgdebuque) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:28:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Gwai Lows screw up again To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Pat (again!) Lessee...Wooshoo can be a sneeze (wooshoo! *sniff* ); or it could be the sound of something flying past your ear (*wooshoo!* "What the (deleted) was that!!!!") Wuzu could be a question as to your actions (wuzu doin' [suspicious glare]) or it could be a greeting (hey man, wuzu-p?) With my tongue in my cheek and a wink in my eye ;-) Bot --- iPat wrote: >> So i guess translation leads to wide variety of > options. Is Wu Shu the > correct spelling? maybe wooshoo? wuzu...... > ; ) > > On 6/7/07, Felipe Jocano > wrote: > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:09:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] the origin of kali - a straight forward answer To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ahem> Self correction protocol enabled> Begin> I was actually referring to the statement about the name kali being a derivative of tjakalele. Bot --- Felipe Jocano wrote: > With all due respect, that comes from the history > section of GM Remy Presas' book. In actuality, > tjakelele is mentioned in Draeger's book on > Indonesian > silat as actually being a war dance. > > Bot > --- Red Gonzales > wrote: > > > i found this while surfing. i copy paste it here > > for what’s its worth. > > > > =========== > > > > AllExperts > Experts > > > > Experts: Martial Arts > > Volunteer > > Answers to one of thousands of questions > > > > Topic: Martial Arts > > > > Expert: David Belanger > > Date: 4/9/2004 > > Subject: origin of kali > > > > Question > > Can you tell me the specific origin of kali? > > > > Get the answer below > > > > Answer > > Actually, kali probably does not originate in > the > > Philippines. There is very little documented > history > > of the islands, and the most common names for the > > martial arts of the Archipelago were not given by > > the natives. The term "kali" may have originated > > from tjakalele, indonesion fencing. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:17:17 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Number of dialects To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just some trivial observations. Many Europeans speak several languages, and some languages seem to be kin to other languages. I travelled to Europe many times with a European girl friend who spoke several languages. At one time, during a train ride, she conversed with a girl whose language she did not speak, but they carried on a lively conversation anyway. My girl friend spoke Czech, and the other girl spoke Yugoslavian, and somehow they understood each other. Reminds me of towns in Cotabato. Most of the time, the conversation would start in Ilonggo or Cebuano. Eventually I learned enough conversationally that I could understand the gist of what they were talking about, and I would answer in Tagalog. Automatically, they would (respectfully) shift to Tagalog, or in some cases, both Tagalog and Cebuano or Ilonggo. James, you are so right. The next spoken dialect was probably chavacano (prevalent in Zamboanga), and strangely enough, followed by Ilocano. There is even an Ilocano town in cotabato called Kabakan. I can understand a smattering of Ilocano because of its kinship to pangasinense, both of which I would hear when I vacationed in Pangasinan. The next spoken dialects were of course Moslem. I could not distinguish one dialect from another. Jay de Leon www.tipunan.com "james jr. sy" wrote: Greetings Pat, There are 87 dialects and about 168 or so languages in the Philippines. By international linguistic standards, dialects are defined as mutually intelligible versions of a language. For instance, the lingua franca in Roxas City in Capiz is mutually intelligible with the one used in Iloilo City. Both dialects belong to the Hiligaynon Language. Those that I speak and understand from the Philippines include: 1. Hiligaynon / Ilonggo Language - A member of the Central Visayan branch of the Visayan Languages which is spoken in the Northern coast of Iloilo, Southwest Masbate, most of Guimaras, West Negros, and parts of the Cotabato provinces. 2. Cebuano Language - One of the 5 branches of the Visayan Language spoken in Cebu, East Negros, Siquijor, Bohol, Southeastern Masbate, West and South Leyte, West Biliran, Camiguin, and most of Mindanao. 3. Tagalog Language - A member of the Southern branch of Philippine languages and the most spoken in the Philippines, with 46% of the population speaking/understanding it. 4. Karay-a Language - A member of the Western Visayan branch of the Visayan Language which is spoken in most of Panay- South and interior Iloilo, Southwest Guimaras, interior Capiz, and Antique. The 5 branches of the Visayan languages belong to the Southern branch of Philippine languages to which the Mindanao, Bicol, and Tagalog languages also belong. Hiligaynon and Karay-a are used by the Ilonggo ethnic people and are spoken by about 9% of the Philippine Population. Both languages belong to the Malayo-Polynesian branch of the Austronesian languages, one of the world's largest language families, both in terms of numbers of languages (more than 1,200) and geographical spread (from Madagascar to Easter Island near the coast of South America). Most of the words in Hiligaynon and Karay-a are cognate to the words found in other Visayan languages. Cebuano and Ilonggo constitute two of the three languages that come after Tagalog as the most widely spoken in the Philippines (the other is Ilocano). Regards. James U. Sy Jr. Conceptual Martial Arts Society (CMAS), Inc. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:45:53 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I started all this? My apologies then to Rocky, et.al. for inadvertently starting the kali thread again. Next time I will wait for a few more minutes before resurrecting this topic and inciting passions again. Seriously, I thought there were a few well-thought out arguments (on both sides) and illuminating facts this time around. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com "james jr. sy" wrote: It all started this way… Jay de Leon wrote, “I remember reading somewhere that Tuhon is a derivative of the word tuan, a Malayan or Indonesia word which is term of respect meaning sir or mister, but may also mean master or lord. ______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:47:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ah...What goes through my mind is what is Manong Rey's basis for that statement about the older manuscript upon which Mirafuente based his chapter.... Bot (Wooshoo! *sniff*) ;-> --- iPat wrote: > thought you would have known! ; ) > sure: > http://www.tipunan.com/Publications/martial_arts/fma_books.html > http://www.bakbakan.com/mai2004.htm > > > On 6/11/07, Felipe Jocano > wrote: > > Hi Pat: > > > > Hope you don't mind my jumping in your discussion > with > > James, but what is your source for this statement? > Got > > me very interested... > > > > Bot > > -- > Pat Davies > www.amag.org.uk > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:02:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] After Kamote comes Kali (again???) part 2 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Alex, bgdebuque: I just remembered (since one of the threads is about karate and arnis) that some of Okinawa's greatest karate masters were also sweet potato farmers. So you have a connection between kali, karate and kamote ;-) Can we suggest that kamote be the symbolic thread that links karate and kali? :-) For bgdebuque: Ang kamote gin kali na, gin karate pa gihapon!!! :-) And if you were ever in the Boy Scouts, did you ever learn this song, "Eat kamote, the musical root, The more you eat, the more you..." :-) Smilingly yours, Bot PS. What do you get when you cross kali and kamote? Answer: kamote-que! :-) (we'll have to explain to the non-Pinoys here) > > > --- bgdebuque wrote: > > > It might be the easy way out in Laguna... but not > in > > the Ilonggo-speaking > > parts of the country. > > > > Once the "kamote" (Visayan sweet potato) root has > > grown, you have to "KALI" > > (dig) it out... =[:->] > > > > Now, there are three (3) general approaches of > doing > > "kali" on the > > "kamote"... The first one is bare-handed... The > > second one is using a > > sharpened wooden or bamboo stick... The third one > is > > using a metal blade... > > > > Isn't it interesting how the act of doing "kali" > on > > the "kamote" seem to > > mimic the favorite topics on the FMA??? > > > > =[:->] > > > > > > Or go home and Plant > > > Kamote!!!! As we say it in Laguna. > > > > > > Cheers! > > > Alex Ercia > > _______________________________________________ > > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > > Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Expecting? Get great news right away with email > Auto-Check. > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html > > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:29:43 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] How about KALInga? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Don't forget folks that the Philippines has a province in Northern Luzon called "KALINGA". The inhabitants of which are also referred to as "KALINGA". Here's what Wikipedia says on the origins of "Kalinga": "It is said that in the Ibanag and Gaddang languages, Kalinga comes from the common noun "kalinga" which means "enemy", "fighter", or "headhunter". The inhabitants of Cagayan and Isabela considered the Kalinga as enemies since they conducted headhunting attacks on Ibanag and Gaddang territories." If "Kalinga" is the noun, what is the verb? "Kali"? And what would "Kali" mean? To fight? To hunt heads? I hope there's somebody out there who is fluent in Ibanag or Gaddang who can shed light on this... --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest