Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 07:22:04 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #192 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: New School in Brentwood NY (KRS) 2. Re: Inosanto Blend (jay de leon) 3. Re: Gat Puno Abon Garimot Baet’s Wisdom: Survival (jay de leon) 4. Kali around the world (Red Gonzales) 5. Re: the origin of kali - a straight forward answer (Red Gonzales) 6. Re: Insult (Red Gonzales) 7. Re: Church Manuscripts (Red Gonzales) 8. Re: Kali - From RP or US? (Red Gonzales) 9. Kali in Panay (Red Gonzales) 10. Re: Kalibo, Kalinog, Kalinga Apayao - What the Kali Are You Talking About? (Red Gonzales) 11. Father Gregorio Aglipay Arnis (gatpuno@aol.com) 12. Fire in San Nicolas District, Cebu City (Stephen Lamade) 13. Influenced in Insosanto/blend (gatpuno@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:04:32 -0400 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: KRS Subject: [Eskrima] Re: New School in Brentwood NY Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello to all my fellow Escimadors and those looking for a great school in the Long Island NY area! My name is Karl. I would like to tell you all about my teachers new school, Brentwood Self Defense Academy, located in Brentwood Long Island NY. We teach Arnis de mano filipino stick and knife, Martial Blade concepts as taught by the renowned instructor Michael Janich as well as Kobe Jiu Jitsu which was taught to my teacher by the legendary Grand Master Bob Malvagno. We have a great school with good people that are always willing to train and help each other. The atmosphere is conducive to learning the arts. If you're in the Long Island area come down for a free class. For more info visit us on the web at www.brentwoodself-defenseacademy.com --KRS --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:32:04 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Inosanto Blend To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net this is an overgeneralization, but from my own experience and seeing other Inosanto practitioners, the following is standard fare for Inosanto Kali: (1) double sticks - sinawali patterns and drills (2) single sticks - strike patterns (amarra) and counter-for- counter drills (3) espada y daga - sumbrada drills (4) hubad-lubad - applied to empty hands, single stick, and knife (5) trapping hands - probably more JKD, but has applications in FMA Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com Gordon Walker wrote: hi, I have been curious about this in the past and have trained with Stephan Kesting, who is an Inosanto certified instructor, but didn't really pursue the question. What is the Inosanto Blend of Filipino martial arts? I remember Stephan said it was an amalgamation of things he learned from Guro Lacoste, Pekiti Tirsia, and Lameco. I know there is a lot of similarities in the technical aspects of the arts, such as ranges, triangular footwork, power generation, stick locks, etc etc. Im just wondering if some Inosanto trained people could specify developmental drills or class structure for this art. I might be training with a guy in the near future who is trained in the art and don't want to be totally in the dark, when it comes to communication. Regards, Gordon _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:23:28 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Gat Puno Abon Garimot Baet’s Wisdom: Survival To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think I have written here before that if your guro has not yet taught you the concepts of "gulang" and "daya", your FMA education is not yet complete. For me, that is the reason why street confrontations in the Phil. were so dangerous (either in the mountainous areas or the cities). You never know when a hard look (masamang tingnin) can end up in just words (murahan) or knifing or gunplay. Jay de Leon www.tipunan.com "james jr. sy" wrote: We can often have an idea and impression of a man’s experience and wisdom thru his words and actions. In GP Baet’s case, I agree to his statement that survival is the very essence of martial arts. (snipped) In a real fight, it’s not about winning but surviving; it’s not about art but controlling, maiming, or killing. These kinds of things do happen in the mountainous areas of the Philippines. James U. Sy Jr. Conceptual Martial Arts Society (CMAS), Inc. --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:06:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Red Gonzales To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Kali around the world Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For those who are looking for an explanation of the name Kali in defense of it, you might want to know that KALI also means: Times (Indonesian, Malay) Old times (Wanda, Wanji, Lambya, Mwanga) Fierce, sharp (Doe, Hehe, Kami, Kutu, Manda, Ngoni, Rungwa, Zalamo, Zigula) Potassium oxide, potash (Danish, Dutch, Finnish, German, Spanish, Swedish, Vietnamese) Bitter (Ndali, Ndari Sumbwa) Bud (Sanskrit, Urdu) - Transliterated Red Gonzales --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:11:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Red Gonzales Subject: Re: [Eskrima] the origin of kali - a straight forward answer To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Bot, I agree that GM Presas did try to connect Tjakalele to Kali in his book but the other details outlined in my copy paste post can’t be seen in the Presas book. But don't you think the write up has alot of grains of truth in it (minus the speculative part of on Tjakalele et. al? Red Gonzales Felipe Jocano wrote: Ahem> Self correction protocol enabled> Begin> I was actually referring to the statement about the name kali being a derivative of tjakalele. Bot --- Felipe Jocano wrote: > With all due respect, that comes from the history > section of GM Remy Presas' book. In actuality, > tjakelele is mentioned in Draeger's book on > Indonesian > silat as actually being a war dance. > > Bot > --- Red Gonzales > wrote: > > > i found this while surfing. i copy paste it here > > for what’s its worth. > > > > =========== > > > > AllExperts > Experts > > > > Experts: Martial Arts > > Volunteer > > Answers to one of thousands of questions > > > > Topic: Martial Arts > > > > Expert: David Belanger > > Date: 4/9/2004 > > Subject: origin of kali > > > > Question > > Can you tell me the specific origin of kali? > > > > Get the answer below > > > > Answer > > Actually, kali probably does not originate in > the > > Philippines. There is very little documented > history > > of the islands, and the most common names for the > > martial arts of the Archipelago were not given by > > the natives. The term "kali" may have originated > > from tjakalele, indonesion fencing. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:15:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Red Gonzales Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Insult To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pat my friend, This is the kind of posts that insults Filipinos. Red Gonzales iPat wrote: many posts with some points maybe lost in translation! There was one that said "You nailed it, we dont know anyhting about this, since Dan Inosanto ." But now you say it was 1902 the claim was that pre spanish terminology refferred to the art as Kali. As we are often inundated by posters that say the US is guilty of generating the term - hey im happy to blame the US too! - its clear that this is not the case. The fact that most manuscripts were destroyed by the Spanish, many manuscripts in other cultures were saved by the churches - something discussed earlier in the thread. The question i have to ask is why such a patriot would want to initiate a myth that has others calling him a liar? The fact that men are quick to dispel the claims of a man who fought on the front line for his country's freedom makes me curious. Why would he 'make up ' such a claim? As a priest he would be able to gain access to manuscripts that many outside the church may not get to see - but apparently he made it all up! of course, as he was excommunicated he would have a bug bear with the spanish so maybe was keen to dispel the spanish terminology that many cling too. Maybe he made it up? But, what is the insult that the term Kali was the ancient word for the FMA? For years on the list we have been told it was because it was an american generated term and many of us sympathised with the claims that the term could be an 'insult'. However, the more we look into it we are able to see that it was a term that generated in the Phillipinnes and had a valid translation for the pre spanish era - a claim made by scholars in the Phillipinnes. On 6/11/07, gatpuno@aol.com wrote: > Pat Davis, > > Yes, off-course we knows and it been said that "Kali" was claimed first > by Filipino recorded in Yambao's Book. I will repeat them again, The > first one who call this term is "Father Greogrio Aglipay" the first > Filipino Protestant Priest, founded the Iglesia Filipina Indipediente > (Philiipines Independent Church). He was said that on 1610 "Kali" is > the first name of Filipino Matial Arts. But the claimed is "bias", is > like a"Myth" instead of reality. Since there are no evidence of the > word to be called as the FMA. > > Also we want just to make it clear, that everything you see and read is > true. We also try to stop is the claimed to be the first name of theart > arts and the mother arts, the purer, such a claimed that make Arnis and > other FMA second or came from it.. > > Maybe you have to go back to the old post and re-read what you read, it > was said many times. > -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:18:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Red Gonzales Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Church Manuscripts To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pat my friend, What is the source of this statement from your post “most manuscripts were destroyed by the Spanish?” What Philippine history books (no internet please) did you read to come to this declaration? Can you please name the “manuscripts that many outside the church may not get to see?” Salamat po. Red Gonzales iPat wrote: As we are often inundated by posters that say the US is guilty of generating the term - hey im happy to blame the US too! - its clear that this is not the case. The fact that most manuscripts were destroyed by the Spanish, many manuscripts in other cultures were saved by the churches - something discussed earlier in the thread. The question i have to ask is why such a patriot would want to initiate a myth that has others calling him a liar? The fact that men are quick to dispel the claims of a man who fought on the front line for his country's freedom makes me curious. Why would he 'make up ' such a claim? As a priest he would be able to gain access to manuscripts that many outside the church may not get to see - but apparently he made it all up! Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:20:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Red Gonzales Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali - From RP or US? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pat my friend, Your defense now for the Kali term is Yambao’s book and you’re asserting that the term originated from the Philippines because the book did mention it as the ancient name of Arnis. Hmmm…you may have a point maybe, just maybe. However, I have all the reasons to believe that the Kali mentioned in Yambao’s book has nothing to do with the Kali that is done in the US. I want to ask, have you read Yambao’s book? If yes, was it in Tagalog or a translation? And what commonalities have you seen in Yambao’s and the US Kali? If you haven’t read the book, what gives you the conviction that it is indeed a good piece of evidence for your defense of kali? I’ll excitedly await your answer Pat. Red Gonzales iPat wrote: many posts with some points maybe lost in translation! There was one that said "You nailed it, we dont know anyhting about this, since Dan Inosanto ." But now you say it was 1902 the claim was that pre spanish terminology refferred to the art as Kali. As we are often inundated by posters that say the US is guilty of generating the term - hey im happy to blame the US too! - its clear that this is not the case. The fact that most manuscripts were destroyed by the Spanish, many manuscripts in other cultures were saved by the churches - something discussed earlier in the thread. The question i have to ask is why such a patriot would want to initiate a myth that has others calling him a liar? The fact that men are quick to dispel the claims of a man who fought on the front line for his country's freedom makes me curious. Why would he 'make up ' such a claim? As a priest he would be able to gain access to manuscripts that many outside the church may not get to see - but apparently he made it all up! of course, as he was excommunicated he would have a bug bear with the spanish so maybe was keen to dispel the spanish terminology that many cling too. Maybe he made it up? But, what is the insult that the term Kali was the ancient word for the FMA? For years on the list we have been told it was because it was an american generated term and many of us sympathised with the claims that the term could be an 'insult'. However, the more we look into it we are able to see that it was a term that generated in the Phillipinnes and had a valid translation for the pre spanish era - a claim made by scholars in the Phillipinnes. Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:21:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Red Gonzales To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Kali in Panay Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Bot, Your father Landa Jocano was from Cabatuan, right? Do you have any idea if they did indeed use the term Kali in that part of the Philippines? Thanx. Red Gonzales --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:14:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Red Gonzales Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kalibo, Kalinog, Kalinga Apayao - What the Kali Are You Talking About? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bgdebuque my friend, It’s a very good thing that you mentioned Kalinga for it will make our discussion on Kali more interesting. Both of us are Ilonggos and needless to say we both know the Supreme Grandmaster of Kali. For those who still don’t know, it was Gaje who pioneered the connection of Kali the purest Mother Filipino Martial Art to the names of Filipino places which included Kalibo, Calinog, and Kalinga Apayao. It was Gaje who said that the name of the municipality of Kalibo meant “a gathering of Kali men” and that it is there that one can find a Kali tribe. Hahaha is all Aklanons could comment. For those who are not familiar with the etymology of Kalibo, it was derived from the root word Libo “thousand.” The prefix ka was added to it to have the town name. For the non-believers, I suggest a trip to Kalibo, it’s a beautiful place, and while there visit their municipal hall for the naked truth. And BTW, don’t mind asking if they have a Kali tribe there. You wouldn’t want to be embarrassed. The different tribes in the Philippines had already been mapped out. Calinog, which is conveniently respelt Kalinog to look more similar to the Inang Arte (Mother Art), by the same token is composed of the prefix ka and the root word linog “earthquake.” Wow, how did the Black Mother found her way into Kalinog in Panay? Biskan imo utok malinog (even your head will quake.) I’ll have to leave the Kalinga Apayao to the ethnic groups living there. Maybe they might have the Kali tribe there. Red Gonzales bgdebuque wrote: Don't forget folks that the Philippines has a province in Northern Luzon called "KALINGA". The inhabitants of which are also referred to as "KALINGA". Here's what Wikipedia says on the origins of "Kalinga": "It is said that in the Ibanag and Gaddang languages, Kalinga comes from the common noun "kalinga" which means "enemy", "fighter", or "headhunter". The inhabitants of Cagayan and Isabela considered the Kalinga as enemies since they conducted headhunting attacks on Ibanag and Gaddang territories." If "Kalinga" is the noun, what is the verb? "Kali"? And what would "Kali" mean? To fight? To hunt heads? I hope there's somebody out there who is fluent in Ibanag or Gaddang who can shed light on this... _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://ph.mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:21:00 -0400 From: gatpuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Father Gregorio Aglipay Arnis Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ken, I research from Luzon existing system is based by the number. The system exist in Luzon majority, Cinco Teros, Even Cabaroan, Kadaanan is base on Cinco Teros, the famous Sinawali is based on Cinco Teros. Father Aglipay has one student in Laguna during their time in Catholic Seminary. Grandfatherr of one of my mentor GM Victor "Afu" David his Granfatehr GM Leon Afu is born 1838 died on 1925 are closed friend of Father Aglipay, even though he was not able to graduate as Priest becaused both Father Aglipay and Leon fell in love with the women, which is not allowed to the Catholic Friest. Their was thought the "Doce Strata of Cinco Teros" which is organized system practice in Central Luzon, from Pampannga, Panganisnan, Ilocos, and other Provinces. The the Doce Pares of Luzon is not a system at all in the beginning, it is an organization developed during the rule of Spain. It was late 1800's when the Doce Pares of Laguna become the system, based on "Doce Strata of Cinco Teros. I am also found that the Cinco Teros is the most practiced art from the old days up to this days. Siete Pares Arnis (Stand for the Seven Provinces Style of Arnis) was born during the Peak of KKK (katipunan Revolution) which is taught to the Katipunero by the group of General Emilio Aguinaldo which native of Magdalena, Laguna. The "Laban Tulisan Arnis" was born on the 1940's created by the HUKBALAHAP. Mainly practiced in Laguna Hukbalahap, which my Uncle Leocadio Baet as "Kumader Sabo" ng Laguna was the head of his Laguna/Quezon Hukbalahap Groups. Now based on the book of Yambao, is remarkable fighting stance, name of the strike, and the techniques demonstrated on the book is fall to the Cinco Teros Arnis the original form of Arnis in Luzon. The stretch armed and position of weapon during execution is only seen in Cinco Teros stylist. Today, you can find lot of different numbering system in Luzon, but the origal form is Cinco Teros. A lot of master practiced different number as they want to be different from the others, are some says based on their analogy, they find beneficial to their particular style the added angle of their style. Some of the numbering you see in Luzon, Tres Puntos of Batangas, Nueve Teros of Morong Rizal, Their Trece Arnis System is base on 13 strikes, and more.. Well, somehow "Kali" might be a creation word by Mirafuerte, since my instructor whom direct studied under his Granfather foloower of Fatehr Aglipay in Philippine Independent Church does not know the "Kali" word as refer as the old Arnis. He heard Kadaanan, Kabaroan, Eskrima, Estokada and Pananandata as refer to Arnis but again never the word "Kali" that why we are continues tracing the words. If we can get lucky to find any lead to the truth. Peace, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:56:27 -0700 (PDT) From: ken jo To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Kali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net james jr. sy wrote [in Eskrima Digest Vol.14#169]: “..Florante at Laura by Francisco Balagtas - 1831 - First record of Arnis. Mga Karunungan sa Larong Arnis by Placido Yambao - 1957 - First record of Kali.." -- thank you for the input james.. Florante at Laura was actually published in 1838 upon the release of Francisco Baltazar from prison.. – that aside, I think I need to reiterate my question to the body again.. and perhaps this time, perhaps somebody out there can help me out with my inquiry.. I would like to know if anybody has information as to which organization/system/style Mr. Yambao and Mr. Mirafuente belonged to or were practicing at that time that they agreed to acknowledge the terminology "KALI" in the book "Mga Karunungan sa Larong Arnis" which was published in 1957? -- matagal ko na po sanang gustong itanong ito noon pa.. ano po ba ang grupo/sistema/istilo ni manong mirafuente at manong yambao noong panahong yun at pumayag sila na bigyan pansin ang terminolohiyang "KALI" sa panahong 1957? -- dugay na unta nako ni gusto ipangutana, unsa diay ang grupo/sistema/istilo nila noy mirafuente ug noy yambao ngadtong panahona nato nga nisugot man sila na gamitun ang "KALI" niadtong 1957? daghang salamat.. PS: I am looking for this particular information because this would indicate which organization(s)/system(s)/style(s) were in possession of knowledge about KALI the term of an indigenous Martial Arts of our land at that time.. perhaps this group is still existing and is an actual living repository of extensive knowledge re: our native fighting arts/martial culture long before 16 March 1521 when the expedition of Portuguese explorer Ferdinand Magellan sighted the island of Samar - where he was welcomed by Raja Kolambu and Raja Siagu, and where he named the islands the Archipelago de San Lazaro (the islands of Saint Lazarus).. [-- as to where Mr. Mirafuente got his info – that would be the subject of debates - but it would seem logical to assume that the use of that word has been in existence long before the publishing of the book -as the draft document, i heard, was 20-30 years in the making - we can only surmise that the word KALI was in existence at least in the 1900s or a minimum of 100++ years.. but if we are to be strict, legalistic, and technical about it, then the published word KALI is at least 50 years old this year --] -- and very big thanks to Manong Abon "Garimot" Baet for pointing out [in Eskrima Digest Vol.19#171] that Mr. Mirafuente actually cited the founder of Iglesia Filipina Independiente (Philippine Independent Church), Fr. Gregorio Aglipay [8 May 1860 – 1 September 1940], as Mr. Mirafuente’s source for the word KALI – [i wonder what the connection was between Mr. Mirafuente, Mr. Yambao and Fr. Aglipay?] -- I maybe wrong, but from what I gathered from the information that Manong Baet shared with the group - Mr. Yambao quoted Fr. Aglipay as giving the following timeline for the evolution of terms for the Filipino Martial Arts that we know today: from #### B.C. [?] to 1610 : Kali from 1610 to 1860 : "Pananandata" in Tagalog, "Pagkalikali" in Cagayan by the Ibanags, "Kalirongan" in Pangasinan, "Kaliradman" in Visaya, and; "Pagaradman" in Ilongo 1853 (sic) / [1838] : Arnis [as specified by Balagtas in Florante at Laura] from 1860 to 1872 : "Didya" in Ilocos, "Kabaroan" -- anyway, thanks a lot for all of the inputs guys.. appreciate it big time.. hope somebody out there can trace the specific kali-eskrima-arnis organization/system/style of Mr. Yambao and Mr. Mirafuente and perhaps Fr. Aglipay himself?.. Mabuhay ang Pilipinas! ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. =0 --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Stephen Lamade" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:45:22 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Fire in San Nicolas District, Cebu City Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I've heard that there was a bad fire earlier this week in San Nicolas district, Cebu. Over 50 homes were destroyed - including Momoy Canete's home and the home of his grandson, Panto Flores - and there are hundreds of people displaced and living in emergency housing at a local sports complex. Master Flores let me know that historical artifacts and photos of Momoy were lost and that he and his wife, both of whom were not at home when the fire started, lost everything that they owned. I think that this is also probably true of most people in the district who lost their homes. Condolences to all involved. _________________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm --__--__-- Message: 13 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:37:45 -0400 From: gatpuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Influenced in Insosanto/blend Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Okay, I am thankful of Guro Inosanto of being the key influencial person of propagating the FMA. This list make me dizzy, I can only assume that this is what we call "collectible" system, and my questions is what style is major based before adding this all influenced "Lacoste? I assume since he calls his blend Lacoste/Inosanto blend of Kali? Just wondering, you know one arts or style need to study in a lfie time to really understand, but since it was claimed influenced then its like what we can call in our conversational jokes. Jack of all trades Master of none, it difinition it might be not fall to Guro Inosanto. I dont know since I only see him once. But if he can pull it off and can seperated them is good for him, I wish I could teach all the system that I learned from twelve maestro that I have. Cinco Teros alone a lot of my student is overwhelming information, that is why I teach them seperated by major style. From: Long Range to Closed Range: 1/Tres Puntos, (Knife Fighting) 2/Cinco Teros, (Twelve Strata of Cinco Teros) 3/Siete Colores, (Seven Stiking System includes Laban Tulisan) 4/Doce Pares Laguna (Twelve Language of Fighting) or Doce Idioma de Combate 5/Sikadtukan, (Kick boxing includes Sikaran and Mano-mano) 6/Dobleteros, (The Sinwali & Abaniko double stick) 7/Moro-moro (The Combat Dance ) First formal drill currcullum of Arnis, Eskrima and Estokada. 8/Harimaw Buno (Filipino Wrestling, Grappling) 9/ Garimot Hilot (Filipino Healing Arts) I have twelve Maestros, and my major Maestro is my father then I learned form the others, and I am having a hard time to combined them down that easy, I have to teach them seperates from each other, becaused if I am not going to pick here and there, which and what to pick to be the Foundation. If you do that then I believed the foundation will be weak in nature. Its not enough understanding of one style, then confusing approach from the other style add on.. Is just me I dont know how he can do it. Well "God bless someone like Guro Inosoanto can teach all this influenced, I think I am going to bring some part of my knowledge to my death bed. That the reson why I asked my student if they can help me to video tape them while I am still strong and alert. The day will come I will forget some of them, who know the future tomorrow will bring huh?. Guro Inosanto is not getting any younger anymore, I suggest get your training now, until he forget some of them.. No disrespect whatsoever, just wondering the percetage he know it each style? that's all. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com Everything I have heard and been told is the same as what IPat mentioned. The Title of the system pays respect to both Lacoste and Guro Inosanto's Father. Plus often when you take on or over a system, you place your teacher's name first and yours second. From what I have learned from Guro Inosanto as well as Guro Balicki is that the Inosanto Blend shows many influences. Of those these are the one's that I have been shown and listed. Many are similar but also different. Methods (Styles/Systems of Training) 1. Abecedario style 2. Doublecado style 3. Trisello or Crosses style 4. Redondo style 5. Disalon style 6. Herada Bantanqueno style 7. Abanico style 8. Etalanio style 9. Largada Pesada style 10. Sumkeate style 11. Precia Punialada style 12. Rompipan Cempiapa Etalonia style 13. Abierta style 14. Serada style 15. Dos Manos style 16. Fondo Puerta style 17. Reterida style 18. Lastico style 19. Toledo style 20. Bergonia style 21. Magalaya style 22. Toledo-Collado style 23. Doce Pares style 24. Bohol style 25. Moro style (many types Muslim styles) 26. Tagalog style 27. Pampango style 28. Illongo style 29. Taosug style or Sulu style 30. Cebuano style 31. Waray style 32. Ilocano style 33. Pangasinan style 34. Samar style 35. Mountain style (Norther type) 36. Largo Mano style 37. Derobio style 38. Repeticion style 39. Numerado style 40. Literada style 41. Cabisedario style 42. Sumbrada style 43. Villabrille system (composite of styles) 44. Lameco Guro Inosanto still continues to train and always put on a white belt so therefore there has been I think more added in the last few years but this is a really good list or base to pull from. Many will be similar but as IPat said, Guro Inosanto pulls from all of them and pays complete respect to all of his teachers and their arts. I hope this helps some. Cya sweatin, Guro Larry St. Clair The New & Improved Martial Way Academy www.martialway.net 821-3637 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest