Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 02:58:31 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #208 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Kali Records (ed garcia) 2. And in yet another effort to wrap up my participation in this discussion , , , (Marc Denny) 3. Re: Kali and the Path of the Warrior (bgdebuque) 4. Re: Number of dialects (Sonny Padilla) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 21:18:09 -0700 (PDT) From: ed garcia Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali Records To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Why haven˘t the ultra mega patriotic Dr. Jose P. Rizal, the national hero of the Philippines, mention Kali in any of his novels which depicted war, his autobiographies, letters to his families, and other documents? (I can guarantee you there was none. Rizal was required study in the elementary, high school, and collegiate level of Philippine education). For what it's worth, in chapter 14 of El Filibusterismo, one line reads "the continuous clashing of the blades from the fencing lessons". In the Tagalog translation of the novel, this is written as eskrima and I would venture that the original Spanish text would also be written as escrima. Whether Rizal was referring to Spanish/European fencing or FMA is anybody's guess. Just my $0.02. _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 22:49:18 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] And in yet another effort to wrap up my participation in this discussion , , , Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings Sy: My only points are these: 1) The Mirafuentes/Yambao book serves as evidence that the term "Kali" was used in the Philippines and is not "made up in America". I'm sorry that the book does not cite sources, but that's life. I find the argument that the book was influenced by some sort of Filipinos-in-Stockton conspiracy to be too convoluted to be persuasive for me, but to each his own. 2) To my understanding, Guro Inosanto's principal source for the use of the term "Kali" is GM Lacoste. This is not to say that Kali was a term of his native language. It is a term he acquired elsewhere-- somewhere in the south is my understanding. It is my understanding that he did train with Muslims in the south even though he was not a Muslim. Whether this was known to his Muslim teachers I do not know. MY POINT IS NOT THAT THIS CONSTITUTES PROOF. MY POINT IS THAT THIS LINE OF EVIDENCE HAS NOT BEEN DISPROVEN-- and probably never can be. No doubt this is frustrating for those who wish to obliterate the name Kali from the historical record, but there it is. 3) GM Largusa's words on this subject are often ascribed to Guro Inosanto. This is not precise. Guro I. quoted GM Largusa, which is not the same thing. While we're at it, it is worth noting that the essays that began the book were by Gil Johnson not Guro Inosanto-- however it is Guro I's name that is on the cover. As for your other questions, by all means carry on-- but it will need to be without me because I haven't a clue. The Adventure continues! CD --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 02:47:06 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali and the Path of the Warrior Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net While we may not have uncovered enough evidence to prove that Kali is the "Mother Art" of the FMA, in the 1 month or so this topic has been discussed, I was at least personally able to "uncover" the following: 1. Currently, there is a stick-based martial art play in Southern India called KolKALI. 2. In the Malay language a river can be called as KALI. 3. In the Malay language "times", "multiply by" or "repetition" is called KALI. 4. In a typical MA training conducted in the Malay language, it is normal to hear the word KALI. 4. In the Ilonggo or Hiligaynon language "to dig" means KALI. 5. In Ilonggo culture, it is acceptable for a place to be named as KALI. 6. In the Ibanag and Gaddang languages a "fighter", "enemy" or "headhunter" is called as KALInga 7. In the Hindu religion, the Goddess of annihilation is called KALI. 8. In the Hindu religion, the Goddess KALI is also considered as "the ultimate reality" 9. The weapon of the Goddess KALI is a sword. 10. KALI is the feminine version of the Sanskrit word "Kala" which means "time". 11. The Goddess KALI is portrayed as one who dances on the battlefield over the corpses of slain demons. 12. One of the hands of the Goddess KALI is holding a severed head. I tried to string together in random order all the key words associated with KALI and this is what I got: SWORD-ENEMY-SEVERED HEAD-ANNIHILATION-TIME-FIGHTER-DANCES-BATTLEFIELD-STICK-REPETITION-DIG-HEADHUNTER-PLAY-SLAIN DEMONS-RIVER-ULTIMATE REALITY Regardless of whether or not it can be proven that the term refers to the Mother Art of the FMA, one thing seems to be clear to me - the term is surely related to the Path of the Warrior... --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Sonny Padilla" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Number of dialects Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:42:15 -0600 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Jay, Singkaw also means sickle, a tool used to cut rice stalks when harvesting. I used to carry a singkaw and a bolo (buneng) during rice harvest times. Sonny >From: jay de leon >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Number of dialects >Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:38:36 -0700 (PDT) > >James: > > For whatever it is worth, Pangasinan is divided linguistically > into Pangasinense (also known as pangalatok) and Ilocano. > My father's side of Binmaley going up north to as far as > Alaminos and probably beyond is mostly Pangasinense. > My father spoke both Pangasinense and Ilocano fluently, > among many other dialects. > > So it is not unlikely that an Ilocano word like "singkaw" > would find common usage in the province of Pangasinan, > as well as the Ilocos provinces. > > Jay de Leon > www.tipunan.com > >"james jr. sy" wrote: > Thank you Sir Jay. > >I first heard the term Singkaw from R. Jun Batobalani Sensei, the highest >ranking Filipino Aikido instructor in the world as recognized by Aikikai >Hombu, who now lives in Urdaneta City, Pangasinan (formerly Baguio City). >As it was explained to us, Singkaw is the Ilocano word for the English >“harness,” and by extension, the Filipinized term Arnis. > >James U. Sy Jr. >Conceptual Martial Arts Society (CMAS), Inc. > > > > > >--------------------------------- >Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _________________________________________________________________ Fight Allergies With Live Search http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=Remedies+For+Spring+Allergies&mkt=en-ca&FORM=SERNEP --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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