Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 02:58:28 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #217 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: school in Orlando ? (Balintawak Arnis) 2. Re: KALI - The Indonesian Connection (james jr. sy) 3. RE: 2007 Brotherhood of the Blade (Michael Gallagher) 4. FMA summer camp- Michigan (sidney525@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Balintawak Arnis" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] school in Orlando ? Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:41:30 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'll second that recommendation for Raffy. Robert -----Original Message----- Message: 3 From: "Sharon Bronson" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] school in Orlando ? Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:21:16 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi there! http://bbtechnologies.net/pambuan/ I am a student of Ama Guro Raffy Pambuan. Come check out our class, he is amazing! Best wishes, Sharon Bronson www.RadicalRay.com From: "Vik ." To: Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:16 PM Subject: [Eskrima] school in Orlando ? > Looking for school in orlando FL and east coast of FL > Thank you for any help! --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:11:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] KALI - The Indonesian Connection To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bgdebuque, You have failed to tell our fellow EDers that 1. Tjakalele makes use of spears and shields and not bladed weapons like the kalis as supposed to be used in Kali. 2. “Seram natives have a history of headhunting and cannibalism.” And so does Africa and other parts of the world. 3. Draeger was making a supposition and hypothesis that he hoped can be researched further when he wrote: "On the small island of Haruku is found a system of stick fighting which may bear some relationship to the Philippine (Mactan) use of tabak (sharpened) sticks. Haruku islanders make use of small sticks sharpened at one or both ends, fire hardened, and apply them as skewers..." Such can’t be taken as HISTORICAL proof. 4. It is another supposition and hypothesis when Bgdebuque wrote, “In pre-Spanish Philippines, there exists an all-male secret society for the training of future warriors in the art of headhunting (and possibly cannibalism). The core curriculum of such training is the mastery of the war dance called KALI.” No Philippine history textbook mentions such a secret society. Such supposition would also mean that ancient Kalistas, if they did exist, were headhunters and cannibals? Would this mean that modern Kalistas should also do the same practice? Bgdebuque previously wrote that Kali was Muslim. Ever heard of a cannibal Muslim? >(:>) As to Bgdebuque’s questions: Could the secret society angle be the possible explanation why no Spanish historian ever came accross the term? If Pigafetta came across the term Kampilan, we can see no reason why he could not have come across the term Kali, if indeed there was such. Could the headhunting angle be the possible reason why Ibanags and Gaddangs call headhunters as KALINGA? We can wonder why Kalistas are not headhunters and cannibals. Could it is also the possible explanation why Borneo (which together With New Guinea is probably the last bastion of headhunting and cannibalism) is originally called by the native population as KALIMANTAN? Again we can wonder why Kalistas are not headhunters and cannibals. Bgdebuque wrote: “BTW, Wikipedia offered several explanations on the possible meaning of KALIMANTAN. If you are familiar with the Indonesian language, however, MANTAN means "experienced". KALIMANTAN, therefore, could also Possibly mean "experienced in KALI".” Or maybe “River Experience,” i.e. might as well say Kalistas are good swimmers. >(:>) bgdebuque wrote: In his book "The Weapons and Fighting Arts of Indonesia" (c. 1972) the late Donn F. Draeger described certain combative ceremonies in the island of Ceram (now known as Seram) in the Moluccas as follows (p. 234): "There can be seen on special occasions the centuries-old TJAKALELE, the male war dance indigenous to the Moluccas. Its origin is obscure but is suggested in legends, though not by name. Hybrid forms are practiced today on Tanimbar, Timor, and in the Celebes. >From the age sixteen, village boys study and work three to five years in conjunction with the KAKEHAN. Under the rigors of daily training the TJAKALELE is performed." In footnote 13, he described the KAKEHAN as follows: "A highly secret, animistic religious form, active today. As a secret society, its workings have never been fully disclosed." BTW, Seram natives have a history of headhunting and cannibalism. Donn continued to write on the Moloccas (p. 235): "On the small island of Haruku is found a system of stick fighting which may bear some relationship to the Philippine (Mactan) use of tabak (sharpened) sticks. Haruku islanders make use of small sticks sharpened at one or both ends, fire hardened, and apply them as skewers..." If you juxtapose the foregoing description of Donn on the possible existence of KALI in pre-Spanish Philippines, then you would get the following description: In pre-Spanish Philippines, there exists an all-male secret society for the training of future warriors in the art of headhunting (and possibly cannibalism). The core curriculum of such training is the mastery of the war dance called KALI. Could the secret society angle be the possible explanation why no Spanish historian ever came accross the term? Could the headhunting angle be the possible reason why Ibanags and Gaddangs call headhunters as KALINGA? Could it is also the possible explanation why Borneo (which together with New Guinea is probably the last bastion of headhunting and cannibalism) is originally called by the native population as KALIMANTAN? BTW, Wikipedia offered several explanations on the possible meaning of KALIMANTAN. If you are familiar with the Indonesian language, however, MANTAN means "experienced". KALIMANTAN, therefore, could also possibly mean "experienced in KALI". > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 05:16:11 -0700 (PDT) > From: kali warrior > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kali and Marc Denny > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Mr. Sy, > > > May I offer some references If you try to read Arnis Lanada by Amante P. > Marinas, it says, "Arnis evolved from kali, an ancient martial art practiced > by early Filipinos. Kali, generally believed to have come from Indonesia, is > a highly systemized form of fighting which was taught in tribal schools > called bothoan prior to 1521." > > And in Pananandata by the same author, "Prior to 1610, kali was known by > many names depending upon the dialect of the warrior. Kali was known as > pananadata in Tagalog, pagakalikali in Ilbanag, kalirongan in Pangasinan, > kaliradman in Visayas,…" > > "Indeed by 1853 the word kali had almost disappeared, replaced by the word > "arnes" which later became "arnis" " > > "Kali was orginally practiced by the royalty of the Visayan and the > Tagalog regions, by the Amandakwas of Pangasinan and the Baruwangs of > Cagayan." > > GM Marinas is one of the most respected guros in the US. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:22:25 -0400 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Michael Gallagher Subject: RE: [Eskrima] 2007 Brotherhood of the Blade Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net At 10:39 AM 7/11/2007, you wrote: >Sorry. Guess the whole document did not transfer when I did the cut & >paste. Here it is again with all the info. > > And you're sure it all came through this time? :P :) Sorry; couldn't resist! :) --__--__-- Message: 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:03:10 -0400 From: sidney525@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] FMA summer camp- Michigan Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The Defensor Method will be having their annual summer camp in St. Joseph, MI When:? July 28 & 29 Where: 1817 Brown School Road, ?St. Joseph, Michigan.? About 90 mins. from Chicago Cost: $80 pre-paid Topics covered:? Numerada, 64 attacks, Seguida, Lock n'block, Sikaran, Silat, and Staff. For more info, check the website @ www.defensormethod.com salamat Sid ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest