Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 02:46:41 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #302 - 2 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Mark Wiley (Jon Broster) 2. Re: Mark Wiley (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:48:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jon Broster To: Eskrima Digest Subject: [Eskrima] Mark Wiley Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I recently held a seminar with Guro Mark Wiley here in Leicester and, as promised, asked him a couple of things that had been raised here on ED. With regard to GM Binas, and the inheritance of the Binas system: Mark says that he was invited by GM Binas to inherit his system, the condition of so-doing was that he only teach and train in the Binas system. He thanked GM Binas but declined, suggesting that GM Binas' son should inherit instead. The principle reason for declining was that he was a keen practitioner of other systems (serrada, illustrisimo etc). With regard to training with GM Angel Cabales: Mark made numerous trips to California, each lasting weeks, over the course of a few years to train with GM Cabales. With regard to GM Cabales issuing Masters certificates in the belief that people would grow into them: He says that this is untrue, and pointed out that there is one certificate that was not issued, because the intended recipient had not completed his training. Mark also pointed out to me that he has never met some of the people who are most critical of him, Ray Terry being the obvious example. He also mentioned that he was in good standing with Suro Mike Inay, having assisted Suro at a seminar for LEOs on the East coast A couple of observations from me: There seems to be very little disunity between direct students of GM Angel Cabales. Most of them get on well with each other. A lot of the infighting comes from students of students (just like in Wing Chun and JKD) If other direct students of Angel did not like or broadly agree with Mark, it seems highly unlikely that so many of them would have cooperated on Mark's second book about Serrada. I don't see much public criticism of the other master graduates - Jerry Preciado, Darren Tibon, Khalid Khan, Sultan Uddin etc. I draw 2 conclusions from this: 1. Mark is more in the public eye, because of his books, and thereby a bigger and easier target. 2. His publishing has bred resentment from other FMA practitioners (along the line of: "Why didn't you feature my teacher?") I guess that by writing this I will put myself in the firing line, but I did promise EDers that I would reply. Maybe people should live by a little saying I like: If you don't have something nice to say, then shut up!! Jon "There's nothing more dangerous than a blunt knife" http://www.pecahan.net --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Mark Wiley To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:58:03 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net All very good info! Thanks for taking the time, the effort and the risk. :) Just two very quick comments since it is always best to hear both sides. > With regard to GM Cabales issuing Masters certificates in the belief that people would grow into them: > He says that this is untrue, and pointed out that there is one certificate that was not issued, because the intended recipient had not completed his training. What Mark claims is not true came straight from Vincent Cabales, the head of the CSE system. And not hearsay, but face-2-face... to me. Also at the same table were Suro Inay, Danny Alvendia, Vincent's son, and one or two others. Vincent also made it clear, again directly to me, twice that Mark has yet to complete his training in CSE. Vincent's direct quote, "Dad was too trusting". > Mark also pointed out to me that he has never met some of the people who are most critical of him, Ray Terry being the obvious example. > He also mentioned that he was in good standing with Suro Mike Inay, having assisted Suro at a seminar for LEOs on the East coast On this point, yes, Suro was a very early instructor of Mark's. But to say that Suro and Mark were on good terms is incorrect, at least from Suro's point of view. Mark seems like a good guy. I have no personal issues with him and would love to meet him sometime to learn more FMA history. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest