Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 02:48:21 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #347 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2500 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Hot Link (Tarn Shadowhawk) 2. Re: A Quick note on death matches (m2341@aol.com) 3. Re: Re: A Quick note on death matches (Ray) 4. Re: Hot Link (Ray) 5. Escrima in Latin America? (garry bowlds) 6. Re: Hot Link (Andrew Hartnett) 7. Re: Man sues instructor (Andrew Hartnett) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 17:36:20 -0800 (PST) From: Tarn Shadowhawk Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Hot Link To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I am terrible at promoting I think. To see what kind of tournament I am hosting, go to: www.freewebs.com/battlefieldweaponstournament I think that even with the safety level I have intruduced that any serious practitioner will find that his or her skills are challenged to the max. If you don't think so, try fighting sword against spear or naginata and see if you do well. That is what the end result for grand championship will result in. Since this is a new kind of tournament that is also why I am offer cash grand prizes instead of the traditional plastic and fake stone dust collectors. Please read everything carefully. There are some unusual rules and faqs present. All this is to insure that anyone who enters is indeed a serious martial artist with the control and discipline to go at speed and still not injure his opponent. Hope you find it interesting. Sensei Charles Adams --- "Armstrong, Steven T SSG RES USAR TRADOC" wrote: > Are you talking about the kind of tournament like > the Dog Brothers host. They are full contact and > with weapons. I have found them to be very violent > and good for judging where you're skill level is > against another trained opponent. I think this type > of tournament would be very beneficial to anyone > serious about training. I see a lot of people today > who just want to get the fastest road possible to > being the baddest dude around. I see this a lot and > they do not want to put in a lot of time training. > It has put a strain on training in the world we live > in now. > > SSG ARMSTRONG > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tarn Shadowhawk > Date: Friday, December 7, 2007 20:59 > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Hot Link > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > I wonder what he would say if I told him the > master of > > my style had to kill twice with his "cultural > style" > > in self defense. Most of the head masters in the > > Phillipines fought challenge matches for real. > Sounds > > like serious fighting to me. My students and I > train > > as hard as we can while still keeping it safe. I > can > > see why anyone might think as he does tho. I have > been > > trying to put together a weapons only tournament > with > > a "few holds barred" format and so far it seems > that > > most people are only into forms and demos with > > weapons. Any serious practitioners out their want > a > > chance at the money in a true challenge? > > Oh well. Training is as you say the key. If you > train > > hard enough most combat styles will see you thru > when > > the going gets tough. > > Sensei Charles Adams > > > > --- "Armstrong, Steven T SSG RES USAR TRADOC" > > wrote: > > > > > I believe that my real issue with this CPT. and > his > > > self defense he says that a lot of FMA such as > arnis > > > and escrima are cultural arts and not true self > > > defense. I know that as a soldier who has been > to > > > Iraq and Afghanistan and Cuba I can personally > vouch > > > for the effectiveness of escrima and any style > can > > > be true self defense by Capt.Chris's definition > and > > > all you have to do is train for a style to work > in a > > > self defense scenario. Training is the only way > to > > > make you're style effective for any situation > even > > > if you're style is the touted special defeat > anyone > > > self defense system you still have to train to > be > > > effective. > > > > > > SSG ARMSTRONG > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > > > Resource > > > Standard disclaimers apply > > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Looking > for last minute shopping deals? > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping_______________________________________________ > > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 2 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 08:27:18 -0500 From: m2341@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Re: A Quick note on death matches Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all >From what I have heard, and believe I saw in a documentary the term DEATH MATCH did not necessarily mean a fight to the death.? Instead during a Death Match both participants would sign a contract stating it was a death match.? In the event that someone died in the fight, the victor would be able to refer to the contract that stated that the opponent recognized and accepted the risk of death. ??? This would prevent the family members of the fallen fighter from coming after the winner.? Which might happen on an honor basis.? It seems a smart thing to do seeing there is no point winning the fight if it means you will be hunted down and killed by the family of your opponent. Again, it wasn't necessarily a fight to the death but if in the process of winning you end up thrusting the opponent in the throat and he dies it would all be considered fair play.? Real Deal "No hold Barred". -- __--__-- Message: 5 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:58:47 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [Eskrima] death matches, was Hot Link Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There is a long held myth that the old FMA masters would test their skills by participating in "death matches". Not sport matches with protective gear and a ref, but actual death matches. I suspect that there were in fact a few death matches, but no where near what some claim. One of my favs is a, ummm, dedicated follower of Cacoy Canete that claims Cacoy fought in 100 death matches, never lost a match -and- never had to kill anyone. THEN IT WASN'T A DEATH MATCH! I'm fairly certain that Cacoy would not make that claim, yet this is how the myth begins. A student telling tales about how good his training must be because his instructor killed those that dared to cross sticks or swords with him. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: A Quick note on death matches To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 09:04:43 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > In the event that someone died in the fight, the victor would be able to > refer to the contract that stated that the opponent recognized and accepted > the risk of death. This was pretty much SOP, yet it is not what people attempt to claim as a death match. Which again did not really exist in the numbers people would like you to believe. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Hot Link To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 09:02:29 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Since this is a new kind of tournament that is also > why I am offer cash grand prizes instead of the > traditional plastic and fake stone dust collectors. How is this a new kind of tournament? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 11:32:29 -0800 (PST) From: garry bowlds To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Escrima in Latin America? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey all! I'm going to be doing some traveling in Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicuaraga, Belize, and Costa Rica very soon and was wondering if anyone knows of some schools I could contact while I'm there. Last time I was there I gave some self-defense workshops in Palenque, Mexico and by the time I left the locals were trying to get me to open a school down there. I'm especially looking for some places that would be interested in having some Serrada Escrima seminars. Thanks, Guro Garry ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 13:28:45 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Hartnett Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Hot Link To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net As far as "few holds barred" training and tournaments go, the Dog Brothers immediately come to mind. They're in San Diego, I think, and it seems that folks from all over come to spar. For a little less risk of injury, check out the "Cold Steel Challenge" and the various schools that take part. They seem to use padded, foam swords, but single-stick escrima technique would apply. Still, it's more of a match or "duel" setting--as opposed to raw "reality" setting. But seeing as here in Kansas I take part in niether, my hat goes off to them. Maybe some of your students would be willing to pony up for some padded sticks--there are several makes available. Drew --- Tarn Shadowhawk wrote: > I wonder what he would say if I told him the master > of > my style had to kill twice with his "cultural style" > in self defense. Most of the head masters in the > Phillipines fought challenge matches for real. > Sounds > like serious fighting to me. My students and I train > as hard as we can while still keeping it safe. I can > see why anyone might think as he does tho. I have > been > trying to put together a weapons only tournament > with > a "few holds barred" format and so far it seems that > most people are only into forms and demos with > weapons. Any serious practitioners out their want a > chance at the money in a true challenge? > Oh well. Training is as you say the key. If you > train > hard enough most combat styles will see you thru > when > the going gets tough. > Sensei Charles Adams > > --- "Armstrong, Steven T SSG RES USAR TRADOC" > wrote: > > > I believe that my real issue with this CPT. and > his > > self defense he says that a lot of FMA such as > arnis > > and escrima are cultural arts and not true self > > defense. I know that as a soldier who has been to > > Iraq and Afghanistan and Cuba I can personally > vouch > > for the effectiveness of escrima and any style can > > be true self defense by Capt.Chris's definition > and > > all you have to do is train for a style to work in > a > > self defense scenario. Training is the only way to > > make you're style effective for any situation even > > if you're style is the touted special defeat > anyone > > self defense system you still have to train to be > > effective. > > > > SSG ARMSTRONG > > _______________________________________________ > > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > > Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:40:30 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Hartnett Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Man sues instructor To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net, Thomas Gordon Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In American tort law, there's generally a defense called "assumtion of risk" that is applicable to MA training injuries. Of course, Canadien law may be different and we don't know all the facts in this case. But this underscores the value and importance of release forms, occasionally explained to the full class, that lay out the possibility of injuries in training (and the importance that instructors--and class members--know where the reasonable, identified limits of contact are and do not cross them). Instructors, and even classmates, are right to worry about being sued (which is a terrible strain even if successfully defended), but as far as I know, informed consent and assupmtion of (reasonable) risk should generally be a safeguard against large judgments like the one described here. That is assuming that the lines of agreed, reasonable MA contact and safety are not crossed. p.s.: none of this is meant, nor should it be construed, as legal advice to any specific person or institution. Drew --- Thomas Gordon wrote: > http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hWqoBBeJ8MEkD1N1H-1ecawv3W5A > > > Campbell River man hurt sparring with martial arts > teacher wins damages > > VANCOUVER - A man who sued his martial arts teacher > after his knee was > injured while the teacher was demonstrating a move > has been awarded damages > of more than $155,000 in B.C. Supreme Court. > > Court was told that Robert Parker of Campbell River > suffered a ligament tear > and damage to the cartilage of his right knee as a > result of pressure > applied by Jodey Ingalls on Jan. 23, 2003. > > Parker said he heard his knee pop, rip and tear, > suffered excruciating pain > and blacked out for 20 to 30 seconds. > > Parker eventually had surgery on the knee, in May > 2004, but his knee is > still stiff in the morning and he limps for the > first couple of steps he > take. > > Court was told he can't ski or do martial arts, play > baseball or ride his > bike off-road, has gained 30 pounds since the injury > and continues to take > pain and anti-inflammatory medication. > > He's also unable to work on his house or trade work > with his friends and his > ability to help with chores around the house is > reduced. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest