Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:48:21 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #349 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Man sues instructor (Michael Koblic) 2. Swords again (Gilmour, Julian) 3. Proposed banning of fake katanas (Gilmour, Julian) 4. Re: Man sues instructor (Andrew Hartnett) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:05:44 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Man sues instructor Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jodey has people sign waivers now. Whether he did in 2003, I do not know. The big question is: How useful are these waivers? Do they cover everything that happens in the class? Or are certain events thought of as negligence and not covered by waivers? The details in the story are woefully inadequate. Injury in January 2003 severe enough to damage ligaments and a meniscus, surgery not until May 2004? I don't think so, even in Canada one would expect early MRI diagnosis and repair. There are orthopaedic surgeons in Campbell River. Jodey and his brother are nice guys, not the "if you are not missing teeth at the end of the session, you have not trained hard enough" types. I suspect some creative lawyering cannot be totally excluded in this case... Michael Koblic, Campbell River, BC --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:46:48 -0000 From: "Gilmour, Julian" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Swords again Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all More on the Katana debacle: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7138735.stm It seems to specify 'samurai' swords, so I don't know if it will affect eg. Barongs, or the longer Filipino swords. Strike from the void Julian ****************************** This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. 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Registered as a limited company in England and Wales No. 3725015. Registered office as above. ****************************** --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:13:45 -0000 From: "Gilmour, Julian" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Proposed banning of fake katanas Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All FYI This was on the BBC News Website today: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7139724.stm "Strike from the void" (while you can) Julian ****************************** This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, disclose or take any action in reliance to it. This e-mail and any attachments have been checked by virus detection software before transmission. You should carry out your own virus checks on the contents of this communication. 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Registered office as above. ****************************** --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:38:40 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Hartnett Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Man sues instructor To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net One way a waiver can be overcome (by "creative" lawyers?) is convincing the judge/jury that the waiver was more of a cover-your-bottom tool for the defendant and its content was not really understood by the poor injured plaintiff. (and in some cases, this could very much be the case) I remember how the late, great Jonathan Vance (Universal Kempo-Karate in Hawaii) would often talk about safety and respect before and during class. In stressing the importance restraint--we did train and spar very hard--he would often remind the class of our waivers acknowledging that injuries are possible and kind of use that as a springboard for a "Golden Rule" ethic of care and respect for each other. A possible (if unintentional) result? A slew of witnesses available to testify that EVERYONE was fully aware of the risk they were taking! So in hindsight, it was a great two-birds-with-one-stone policy. (BTW, I broke my rib--among other injuries--and never considered suing or asking for any compensation whatsoever.) And if anyone is still reading, there's one more thought I had on this subject, beyond mere waivers. [Though I don't know if this applies in Canadian law]: In discussing assumption of risk, my tort law professor used the analogy of a football (American-style) player who was tackled REALLY HARD and sustained permanent injuries. Can he (successfully) sue the defender who tackled him, or the team? Generally no. He chose to play, he benefited from playing and everyone knows defenders are supposed to hit hard--written waiver or not. He assumed the risk. But everything could change if it turns out the defender hit after the whistle had been blown, the ball out of play and with reasonable time to stop. You can assume the risk of accidents but not intentional or RECKLESS conduct, even with a bullet-proof waiver. It would be the definition, and possible interpretation, of "reckless" that instructors/classmates would have to worry about. [This is NOT meant to imply anything regarding the defendant (Jodey?) in this case. You're right, the facts are way too skimpy and even then the plaintiff's history sounds a little fishy.] Drew --- Michael Koblic wrote: > Jodey has people sign waivers now. Whether he did in > 2003, I do not know. > > The big question is: How useful are these waivers? > Do they cover everything > that happens in the class? Or are certain events > thought of as negligence > and not covered by waivers? > > The details in the story are woefully inadequate. > Injury in January 2003 > severe enough to damage ligaments and a meniscus, > surgery not until May > 2004? I don't think so, even in Canada one would > expect early MRI diagnosis > and repair. There are orthopaedic surgeons in > Campbell River. > > Jodey and his brother are nice guys, not the "if you > are not missing teeth > at the end of the session, you have not trained hard > enough" types. > > I suspect some creative lawyering cannot be totally > excluded in this case... > > Michael Koblic, > Campbell River, BC > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest