Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:04:03 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #352 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2500 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Training (Ray) 2. Re: Death Matches (Tarn Shadowhawk) 3. Re: Death Matches (Tarn Shadowhawk) 4. Re: Death Matches (Tarn Shadowhawk) 5. Frequency (Ray) 6. Re: Death Matches (ILDEFONSO ODAL) 7. Sport (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:09:17 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [Eskrima] Training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > There are no rules in the streets you just got to do what you need to do.. > experience and wisdom come from different places and times in our life and > those that learn from them GROW. If you ever get in a real fight things move > so fast your heart races and when it happens you will know.. In the real > world you don't really know what is going to happen to you? Exactly right my friend. Yet even more reason to make your training as real as possible. > So just for fun if you want to experience what a full contact blow feels > like? sure its going to hurt maybe break a BONE or if it is delivered > improperly maybe TRUMA OR YOUR DEAD! Yep, anything is possible. Diving to work each day is very dangerous too. Train hard, train for reality, or train in Tae Bo. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:51:18 -0800 (PST) From: Tarn Shadowhawk Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Death Matches To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My instructor is 10th dan with nearly fifty years experience. Ex marine. They trained with kendo gear. To spar. Isshinryu is made to go thru you not around you. Kendo gear was perfect for that kind of fighting. --- Ray wrote: > > Why don't you guys find a way and make some kind > of body protector like > > they use in kendo? > > You mean like > http://www.spargear.com/Products.asp?intCatalogID=6 > ? > > Sparring gear has been around for a long time. > Perhaps that is part of > the problem, since it does not seem to be the > solution. > > Did our instructors wear sparring gear? No. So why > should we? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:26:45 -0800 (PST) From: Tarn Shadowhawk Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Death Matches To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I can tell you what one of my instructors said about the old days when he was coming up. If you didn't come from class with something broken or bloodied you didn't have a good workout. If you need to find out how you react to a full contact hit, why would you need to do it more than once? To see if you are just as (brave?) next week as you were the first time you got hit? I once had to use one of the techniques I trained regularly to master and lo and behold it worked instinctively when the chips were down. And I never had to crush the groin of anyone in training to prove it. Or find out if I could take a full power punch. If I or someone I train hit you full power, you won't do anything again, ever. I don't train them to trade punches like the John Wayne movies, I teach them to hit vital areas. Little girl can kill you with a good strike to the throat so why learn to trade punches with someone? Just a few thought here. --- Glenn Timmons wrote: > Then go ahead and get body injury.. what are trying > to prove.. a certain status where you rank amongst > your peers. When you do these tournaments human > nature takes over, its not for fun anymore egos get > involve like it or not..so go ahead do it with out > protection; I was just concern for those who will > get serious injuries.. please excuse my input on > this. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ray > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:30:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Death Matches > > > > Why don't you guys find a way and make some kind > of body protector > like > > they use in kendo? > > You mean like > http://www.spargear.com/Products.asp?intCatalogID=6 > ? > > Sparring gear has been around for a long time. > Perhaps that is part of > the problem, since it does not seem to be the > solution. > > Did our instructors wear sparring gear? No. So why > should we? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:43:29 -0800 (PST) From: Tarn Shadowhawk Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Death Matches To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I may have need of a writer if you saw some of the things you talked about in my rules and faqs. First off, the only rule on contact I have is no striking the head. You can score TO the head, just don't hit it. Purely a safety precaution in case someone with less than adequate control slips by me. There is only one kind of division in my tournament. That is by weapons. No weight classes, no gender, no rank, and all must be legal adults. So far I believe I have seven days allowed for different weapons divisions. Long sword, broadsword, polearms, short sword, etc. The score is a "six point must" system, no time limit. First one to six wins. How you get the six is up to you so long as it is done with the weapon. I don't care how good you grapple at all. The period clothing is for two reasons: One is to give the competitors a chance to show off one of the traditions in the styles they take. I rather like the Gumdo practioner way of dress for performance as well as the kung fu battle uniforms. Never mistake those for pajamas. (really iritated me when someone called my karate gi that) The second reason is that the whole thing is being held at a renaissance fair and it is as a courtesy to the owner and participants of the fair. After all, he is letting me do this thing for the whole run of the fair. If one is serious enough to enter, that shouldn't be a problem. Strangely enough I have had the best response from western practioners but the eskrima and gumdo people have written too. Anything else? --- Andrew Maddox wrote: > On Wed, 12 Dec 2007, Ray wrote: > > > Sparring gear has been around for a long time. > Perhaps that is part of > > the problem, since it does not seem to be the > solution. > > > > Did our instructors wear sparring gear? No. So > why should we? > > Hmm. An opportunity to inject my "hey gang, let's > put on a show" plea > again! (Sorry, I just has to speak up) > > For Mr. Adams, I don't know exactly why you're > having trouble finding > participants. For me, I'd be put off by the point > scoring system (I prefer > a more subjective, boxing style '10-point must' > system) and some of the > limitations in the rules. When I competed, it was > informal except a > couple of the tournaments Tuhon Chris Sayoc put on > about 15 years ago, but > when I was in the tournaments I really disliked the > WEKAF setup at the > time, preferring the more open Sayoc structure. > > I also think the requirement for period clothing is > a bit silly, to be > honest. Some of the other requirements on what's an > allowable hit and what > isnt make your structure not as compatible with > (speaking only from my > experience) the way hard-contact-liking FMAers (and > not all are) tend to > fight. > > That said, from a more European MA-oriented group, > of which there are > many, I'd think you should be able to get a good > showing. But don't put a > minimum number of participants in there - I've had > great fun in > trounaments that had only 5 or 6 people in each > weight class! (We fought > each other a couple of times, everybody went round > robin, and I think we > gave up on awarding anything, kinda like a Dog > Brothers lite event). > > Anyway, anybody around me who wants to start working > out is welcome and > invited to get in touch! If you know me, drop me a > line, if you're > wondering who the hell I am and what I'm talking > about, do the same. > > I'd join the Dog Brothers if I had time and > resources to train enough and > travel to one of their Gatherings, but I can't. So > let's try for the next > best thing, eh? > > Laters, > Andy > > -- > Andrew Maddox, madsox2k at freeshell dot org > Practitioner of Unaffiliated Martial Arts > But really just, like, this guy, y'know? > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping --__--__-- Message: 5 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:24:59 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [Eskrima] Frequency Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > .... If you need to find out > how you react to a full contact hit, why would you > need to do it more than once? Over a 20 or 30 year period one would normally experience full contact hits. You're right in that it isn't needed every week, not even every month. But it should be part of your training, if you're serious about martial arts. Black eye, busted lip, broken finger, stick hickeys... all something we'll all experience in our years of serious training. Kids? No, they don't need to be training that realistically. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:09:33 -0800 (PST) From: ILDEFONSO ODAL Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Death Matches To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: Godofredo Fajardo , jay de leon Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This is exactly one great reason why we compete, to test our skills or techniques and discipline as it may apply in real life or in the real world. The key thing that was hit here by sir Glenn is discipline... before I learn martial arts, I was always pick on, a skinny short 12 years old less than a 100lbs and I want to get back at them. I have trained in shotokan and modern arnis at 13 still ever learning... but before it was revenge or getting even and fear of getting hurt but not anymore... now is just confidence, self esteem and self control. Discipline through training, teaching, applying FMA when needed in real life. I have competed in my younger years in the Philippines both in point system and full contact. Full contact gives you the reality check that sometimes "it hurts to received than give sometimes" but if you can dish it you may as well know how to take it win or lose as long as with honor. We take great pride in the art specially as part of our culture and heritage. And one must developed skill on a regular basis by practice, training, attending seminar and YES! sometimes competing. I had my fair share of real to life fight in those early years also and "NO real to life DISCIPLINED FMA" goes out there and look for trouble, but sometimes trouble finds or come to us. I'm 42 now, a night manager of Walgreens store/pharmacy in Las Vegas and just recently on December 10 around 4:05 am a shoplifter/robber entered my store. The moment I saw him from my one way mirror and sense trouble. I'm 5'6", 140lbs, medium build and the suspect was 5'9", about 190lbs armed with a 38 revolver and a badge passing himself as a cop. He started stealing in my hardware section putting merchandise in his pockets and I watched him discreetly, gave a heads up to my night cashier that something is about to go down and signal her to call 911. Suspect tried to walk out the store and trigger my store sensors. Standard questioning and search procedure commenced, suspect refused to show ID to back up the gun and badge his wearing and started threatening not to messed with him. He started to reach for his gun and before he get to his weapon, I grabbed the suspect did a sweep take down, put him on a armbar and applied a rear naked choked enough to him to sleep. It was over in less than 2 minutes and I continued to restrained him until the police came apprehended and booked the suspect for shoplifting, robbery, illegal possession of a concealed weapon, impersonating a police officer and yes illegal possession of a control substance too. It could have been worst, someone getting hurt even dead, as associate, a customer or namely me, it was all playing in my head if I don't take him down. The point is that through disciplined training, studying and YES! sometimes competing (even in the past), I have applied my knowledge in FMA at the right place at the right time without anybody getting hurt except the suspect. Let me take this time to thank my Sensei and Grandmaster Godofredo Fajardo for passing the knowledge, skill and discipline essential in life. www.filipinofightingartsintl.com www.tipunan.com www.imafp.com Outmost respect and honor to all our warriors of the past and present! Happy holiday to you all!!! Jun Odal FFALV http://martialartsfriends.com/icodale7 Go with the FLOW. The absolute Arnis commandment. Accept, move on, adapt. ----- Original Message ---- From: Glenn Timmons To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:51:36 PM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Death Matches Hey Ray, I understand your message, i don't mean any disrespect..Sometimes I sit and check out my mail and respond to a topic,but as you know our e-mail friends bombard a topic of interest and I do my best to get up to speed and sometimes I don't know were to begin to catch up a certain topic.. I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way. Certain people that grew up fighting know what i am about to say. The environment that you grow up in gives you a true perspective of how what you as a child or a teen have experienced growing up.. for instance fighting. Growing up in Luzon, I was exposed to allot of fighting, I had my fair share. When I moved here to the USA, I was exposed to an atmosphere were guns and knifes was still not used as much like todays violence;don't get me wrong the guns and knifes were around.. we fought and you just had to fight back. Some knew how to fight and when they couldn't hurt you the way the wanted too they came in numbers from one to four and at one time a group of seven at one time > I have the scars of those days... My friend lost his upper teeth and two of his ribs broken do to a pipe and several kicks to the his side and head; for me I have three gold teeth from that day from a guy that held a rock in his hand striking me with it every time I move to get different angle on the situation doing the best to fend off these Cholos from hurting my child hood friend; he was out cold. That day change me for the worst! After I recovered, I went hunting for these Cholos; out of the seven i got even with four,the fifth guy I ran into when I was 21 with my son now 23years old and a petty officer in the Navy; changed his profession from being a Navy Seal to communications and top Ten in his Graduating Class (just a proud Father excuse me for getting off base) we saw each other, he took off his belt and wrapped it around his fist, as handed my son to my wife she told me to let it go! I was not listening to what she was saying, my focus was to do major harm to that guy! I gave chase as he ran from me, stoped him from climbing wall.... I Lit into him square across his face broke his jaw and rearrange his nose! That guy was a golden gloves boxer at 17!This happened 4 years later.. There are no rules in the streets you just got to do what you need to do.. experience and wisdom come from different places and times in our life and those that learn from them GROW. If you ever get in a real fight things move so fast your heart races and when it happens you will know.. In the real world you don't really know what is going to happen to you? do you look over your shoulder or you just get on with your life? think about it; if you win you still lose! you have no say in the matter if that other person you hurt lets you off the hook then its all good! and if he can't beat you he will surely find away to get back at you or your family. If you happen to fight a person of this mind set and has nothing to lose.. watch out! Thats why you never win in a fight it get too easy to fight every time and you think you have something to prove.. no matter what you know; you don't know what the other person is thinking... any form of self defense is great, you can't let the ego enter inside your head! all Great Teachers in martial arts must help past on self discipline and to help you grow not just physically but mentally.. we all have peace inside all of us.. > So just for fun if you want to experience what a full contact blow feels like? sure its going to hurt maybe break a BONE or if it is delivered improperly maybe TRUMA OR YOUR DEAD! If your really serious about how it feels stick out your arm and have a student strike you at full force with escrima stick.. please use your left arm to demonstrate this lesson, I will assume you are right handed...let me know how it feels. By the way the other two cholos that i never came across ,but I had heard from others years back; One took a Hammer in is head while opening his front door after he moved out of my city by a arrival gang member tryin to make a name for himself, the other got ice picked twenty -two times in jail at age 29... I chose to walk down another road: I chose Family and Friends. I hope you didn't mind me rambling along. Happy Holidays to all of you ----- Original Message ---- From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:56:49 AM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Death Matches >> Then go ahead and get body injury.. what are trying to prove.. a certain status where you rank amongst your peers. When you do these tournaments human nature takes over, its not for fun anymore egos get involve like it or not..so go ahead do it with out protection; I was just concern for those who will get serious injuries.. please excuse my input on this. >> No excuses needed. We can disagree, no problem with that. What are we trying to prove? That our training works. What a full contact hit feels like. Things of that nature. If you don't know what a full contact blow feels like you don't know how you will react when it happens in real life. Granted, different people train for different reasons. Some are interested in training in a martial art. Others in a martial sport. Can you get hurt in full contract training? Sure! You can get hurt doing most anything. When I've been hurt in training my initial thought was not "crap, that bum hurt me!", it was "crap, I need to train harder so that doesn't happen again". Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ --__--__-- Message: 7 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:13:10 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [Eskrima] Sport Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > My instructor is 10th dan with nearly fifty years > experience. Ex marine. They trained with kendo gear. > To spar. Isshinryu is made to go thru you not around > you. Kendo gear was perfect for that kind of fighting. Kendo gear or most any good sparring gear is great for martial sport training. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. 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