Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 02:48:21 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #360 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Full Contact (Tarn Shadowhawk) 2. Re: NO rules Fights?? (Tarn Shadowhawk) 3. Testing, Training or Irresponsible (Paul Harris) 4. FULL CONTACT NO RULES (Gordon Walker) 5. Sparring No Gear verses Gear (Lawrence, Marc J.) 6. Re: Testing, Training or Irresponsible (Daniel Arola) 7. Re: Sparring No Gear verses Gear (Ray) 8. Re: Sparring No Gear verses Gear (Daniel Arola) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:12:11 -0800 (PST) From: Tarn Shadowhawk Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Full Contact To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Well that's just great. And me too short to come see it from tyler. Oh for all the money to train!! Hope you do well Daniel. And if you might consider giving the battlefieldweaponstournament a little plug while you are there it would be most appreciated. Some of the people who contacted me seem to have a deal of respect for you. --- Daniel Arola wrote: > BTW, I'm leading my very 1st Stickfighting clinic > about this very topic.... this weekend in Houston > (shameless plug-hehehe) > > [copied from a post made by Johnathan to the FMA > forum on defend.net] > > > DAMAG-Inc. Kali Combatives Seminar > > --------------------------------- > > The Houston Martial Arts Academy (HMAA) is proud > host Daniel Arola of DAMAG-Inc. Kali Combatives for > a half-day seminar in Houston. > > Date: Saturday, December 22, 2007 > Time: 9 a.m. - noon > Location: The Downtown Club at Houston Center > Cost: $30.00 > > For more information, contact Johnathan Bolton at > (713) 550-6575 or > johnathan@houstonmartialartsacademy.com > > > Daniel Arola wrote: > as my group's mottos says, > "Take the lickin' and keep on STICKin'!" > > -Daniel > jason couture wrote: > Daniel! What's up bro? To answer the question posed > by someone on the list about what I consider "full > contact". Full contact to me means all targets are > fair game. Full contact also means full power > (although I do confess to kicking lighter to the > groin....I mean c'mon.....good training partners are > a > rare bunch!). Full contact to me means, you are > fighting for a submission in some form ( a joint > lock, > a verbal submission, choke, immobilization. etc...). > > I hate very wordy e-mails so, I'm going to wrap this > up. Full contact is important in the quest for > truth. > Safety trumps all things. It is possible to practice > full contact safely. After all......I'm still alive > and even have all my pieces and parts. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > > > DAMAG-INC > [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] > http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com > Houston, Texas > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > > > DAMAG-INC > [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] > http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com > Houston, Texas > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:48:30 -0800 (PST) From: Tarn Shadowhawk Subject: Re: [Eskrima] NO rules Fights?? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I can tell you why some martial artists have to have this type of full contact fighting. "just because" . Some people feel they have to fight like this people. Niether right or wrong,it just is. Glad I am not one of them. I do love armor. But I am also glad these people exist just like I am glad we have navy seals. I don't want to do either job. Nor do most of you.' --- GatPuno@aol.com wrote: > Hello let me stir this topic, > > > Who said the DVD is NO rules, I dont see one > fighters with multiple > opponent, therefore there is a rules, one opponent > at that time. No rules if it will > fight two or even the whole barangay. Then we can > call that "NO" rules. > Remember the arts is designed to live and survived > not kill yourself before the > real attacker come. Just a though many fight I see > is like two guys beating each > other anyone can do that even not skilled fighter. > To those wearing > protective gear and calling it real contact remove > it then I agreed that is real > contact. Full contact tournament here in the US > produced many Champion, I open > wonder if they survive to the real world, FMA is > design for self preservation > not try to kill other friend, yes they agreed to > each other, its easy is > because one on one basis, remember if this is sport > then is okay, if you practiced > for self preservation be ready practiced multiple > opponent in full speed and > as little protective see the difference. Multiple > opponent force you to stay > on your feet, the fight that I see everyone try to > take every single one of > them to the ground and wrestle them with the stick, > that is not stick > fighting, this is stick grappling. Stick fighting > is were you used the stick > effectively to strike and keep your opponent away > from you. Stick should be the > equalizer of the fight, even is multiple opponent. > Just my opinion.. > > Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet > Garimot Arnis Training Group International > > Each of the fighters in the film did it by choice. > They each have their own > reasons and I'm pretty sure their reasons didn't > quite have anything to do > with trying to impress anyone else but each other. > Having the guts to do it was > enough. > > Paul Harris wrote: "It was > full-contact stick fighting, > and the rules were very easy to follow...there > weren't any. No body targets > were off limits, no technique was outlawed, and > absolutely no protective > equipment was allowed, none, including groin cups. > These guys just warmed up and > went at it. I've seen a lot in my day, but Ican > honestly say that I was more > than impressed by the sheer guts of these guys..." > > There is a word that comes to mind when I read this > and it's not "impressed". > > Do either of these guys have wife's, children or > other family that loves and > cares about them? Do they have jobs they do to > support themselves and their > families? Do there realize that with all the > medical technology in the world > an eye can't be replaced? > > No, the word is not impressed. > > > "We have no government armed in power capable of > contending with human > passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our > Constitution was made only for a > religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate > for the government of any > other." John Adams > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > **************************************See AOL's top > rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:28:55 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Harris To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Testing, Training or Irresponsible Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Maybe I've lost some of my youthful bravdo but regardless of the label you put on it (testing or training) participating in full contact stick fighting with no gear in my book is plain irresponsible. Under no circumstances would I intentionally put myself into a situation where someone is swing a stick full force aimed at my head and not have at least head and eye protection. The risk (permanent, life long injury) versus any benefit you might gain via this type of "testing" just isn't justified IMHO. What happens on the street is to some extent out of your control. You've got to deal with the situation as it presents itself. Where you have control (training or testing) a common sense approach should be taken. What possible lessons can you learn by being cracked in the head full force with a stick? That it's not a good thing? --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:03:28 -0700 From: "Gordon Walker" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FULL CONTACT NO RULES Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I wholeheartedly agree with Guro Steve L. I have been training a lot since 1997 and there is always this thought "Would I be able to survive a real situation?" While going full out, day in, day out is not a healthy way to train with longevity in mind, it is a necessity if you wish to answer that thought. Anyhow, I dont know what the hell Im doing posting here. I havent trained for a month. Regards, Gord 'some call me guro' W. p.s. the other thought is 'can i take a shot?' --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:41:58 -0600 From: "Lawrence, Marc J." To: Subject: [Eskrima] Sparring No Gear verses Gear Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sparring No Gear verses Gear Stories Many years ago I had several conversations with people who were training with Grand Master Caņete when the WEKAF style gear was designed and tested, before that gear they used Kendo Gear or no gear. They tried hollowing the sticks or using hollow thin walled cane. They said that for training the gear was needed to teach people and allow them to be able to come to training the next day. One of the Masters said that before the gear, guys would get angry for being injured and then want to get revenge next time. This interfered with training. One my relatives, Lolo Espi used to talk story about how they used to spar at the Fiestas back in Illocos. It was with the hollow thin walled cane, about one meter long and keep fighting until it was broken down to be too short to fight with. He used to say that an injury to your eye is forever! Lolo Espi said that there was two rules based upon customs, one was no strikes to face and the other was no strikes to the groin. Both were considered sacred areas. I have seen private & public matches with no gear and the use of limited gear- helmet & gloves. I have known fighters get hospitalized for injuries also because this. This is kind of thing best saved for testing and fighting. Remember to be careful when you play as there is big difference between combat and playing/sparring. Just my thoughts, Marc Lawrence PAKAMUT-Torrance --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:16:54 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Testing, Training or Irresponsible To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net You guys just got to watch this DVD by Tuhon Tom Kier titled "Sayoc Kali STICKGRAPPLING". The scenes of fights in the dvd are pretty enlightening just from watching. Some practitioners are just willing to go this far just to see if what they've learned works. I can dig it! Daniel Arola Paul Harris wrote: Maybe I've lost some of my youthful bravdo but regardless of the label you put on it (testing or training) participating in full contact stick fighting with no gear in my book is plain irresponsible. Under no circumstances would I intentionally put myself into a situation where someone is swing a stick full force aimed at my head and not have at least head and eye protection. The risk (permanent, life long injury) versus any benefit you might gain via this type of "testing" just isn't justified IMHO. What happens on the street is to some extent out of your control. You've got to deal with the situation as it presents itself. Where you have control (training or testing) a common sense approach should be taken. What possible lessons can you learn by being cracked in the head full force with a stick? That it's not a good thing? _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net DAMAG-INC [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com Houston, Texas --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sparring No Gear verses Gear To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:07:11 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Many years ago I had several conversations with people who were training with >Grand Master Canete when the WEKAF style gear was designed and tested, before >that gear they used Kendo Gear or no gear. They tried hollowing the sticks or >using hollow thin walled cane. They said that for training the gear was needed >to teach people and allow them to be able to come to training the next day. >One of the Masters said that before the gear, guys would get angry for being >injured and then want to get revenge next time. This interfered with training. In my time training with Grand Master Canete (Cacoy) in his backyard we never used protective gear of any type. Sometimes I thought we should be using racquetball eye protection (works great, btw), but we seldom used it and luckily never needed it. Cacoy was not a fan of protective gear. But in the attempts to get Eskrima into the Olympics something had to change, else there was no chance of having it accepted by the IOC. To see a similar watering down (my opinion) compare Taekwondo of the 1960s to Taekwondo of 2000. Years ago it was a martial art, now (as it is usually taught) it is a sport. I agree that there is room for both, but personally I do not want to see Eskrima go the route of Taekwondo. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:06:58 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sparring No Gear verses Gear To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: "...I do not want to see Eskrima go the route of Taekwondo." -Ray Terry --I feel ya man. I wouldn't be diggin it either. Daniel Arola DAMAG-INC [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com Houston, Texas --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest