Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 02:48:21 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #361 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Mr. Harris (jason couture) 2. Re: Testing, Training or Irresponsible (ILDEFONSO ODAL) 3. No-Protective-Gear Stickfighting - Training for what? (bgdebuque) 4. Re: Sparring No Gear verses Gear (Ruel Apostol) 5. Safety Gear Verses No Safety Gear comments (Lawrence, Marc J.) 6. RE: Testing, Training or Irresponsible (Jeremiah Hosch) 7. List down (Ray) 8. Re: Sparring No Gear verses Gear (Daniel Arola) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:32:41 -0800 (PST) From: jason couture To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Mr. Harris Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just wanted to comment on what Mr. Harris said about "what could be gained by getting hit in the head full force with a stick?". I understand your point. There is no denying that injuries occur. Some last for years. What is to be gained by full contact training? My answer: Proper undilluted technique. Here we are again in the politics of the martial arts / self defense world. Take a good hard look at the difference. Does it scare you? Re-evaluate what you're learning, practicing, teaching. Does everything still fall in line with why you started training in the first place? Be true to yourself! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:24:23 -0800 (PST) From: ILDEFONSO ODAL Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Testing, Training or Irresponsible To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Where can I order this DVD of Tuhon Tom Keir, please let me know... it it similar to the Dog Brothers? Thanks Jun ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel Arola To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:16:54 PM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Testing, Training or Irresponsible You guys just got to watch this DVD by Tuhon Tom Kier titled "Sayoc Kali STICKGRAPPLING". The scenes of fights in the dvd are pretty enlightening just from watching. Some practitioners are just willing to go this far just to see if what they've learned works. I can dig it! Daniel Arola Paul Harris wrote: Maybe I've lost some of my youthful bravdo but regardless of the label you put on it (testing or training) participating in full contact stick fighting with no gear in my book is plain irresponsible. Under no circumstances would I intentionally put myself into a situation where someone is swing a stick full force aimed at my head and not have at least head and eye protection. The risk (permanent, life long injury) versus any benefit you might gain via this type of "testing" just isn't justified IMHO. What happens on the street is to some extent out of your control. You've got to deal with the situation as it presents itself. Where you have control (training or testing) a common sense approach should be taken. What possible lessons can you learn by being cracked in the head full force with a stick? That it's not a good thing? _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net DAMAG-INC [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com Houston, Texas --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:53:54 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] No-Protective-Gear Stickfighting - Training for what? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net No-protective-gear stickfighting will be no better than with-protective-gear stickfighting in preparing one for real-life street situations for the simple reason that stick-vs-stick confrontations are very, very rare even in the Philippines or any other part of Southeast Asia for that matter. Normally, at least one party is armed with either a blade or a firearm. Ideally, therefore, a true street reality-based no-holds-barred competition should involve a blade or a firearm - and both weapons should be employed without any consideration for the physical well-being of the participants. Was it Tatang Ilustrissimo who once challenged everyone to fight with real swords? --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:39:51 -0800 (PST) From: Ruel Apostol Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sparring No Gear verses Gear To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey c'mon, we have our no-armor or minimal protectors formats too. Protective Gears is our amateur format so that it is kid-safe, and olympics-friendly. I'm not trying to say that taekwondo is good, but I am just saying that armor is just an option depending on what is your goal. I mean, if arnis guys want it to be kid-safe or appealing to the public, then armor up. if you want to go extreme, then go on without the armor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rOx1omomHQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLkc_wtRih8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY6npVDGCNw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVJFmEz1rak http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3S91YOLP90 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsL6b46jdG0 My dos sentimos. ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel Arola To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 5:06:58 AM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sparring No Gear verses Gear Ray wrote: "...I do not want to see Eskrima go the route of Taekwondo." -Ray Terry --I feel ya man. I wouldn't be diggin it either. Daniel Arola DAMAG-INC [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com Houston, Texas --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:54:18 -0600 From: "Lawrence, Marc J." To: Subject: [Eskrima] Safety Gear Verses No Safety Gear comments Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It was Grand Master Dionisio Canete of the Doce Pares Multi-system that started on the idea of the WEKAF Gear, it was Master Erwin Mosqueda who first told be about early days of the gear design. Others of the Doce Pares Multi-system have said more about it. Professor Remy Presses of Modern Arnis saw this need in his early days also, that why in his first book (1977) he listed the Kendo gear. Even the Dog Brothers- Mark Denny has his people wear a fencing mask and hockey gloves. Now look at Balintawak they do a lot of close quarters drills with no gear, but Grand Master Ising Atillo told me the other day at lunch, when you sparring wear the gear because it is dangerous without! My Lolo Espi was right, an injury to the eye is forever! Those who do not know the history are doomed to repeat it. Remember that in modern sparring there are two thoughts paths in the current tournament format, one is like boxing and the other is like fencing. There is big difference between fighting and sport sparring. Sport sparring is for fun, fighting is for keeps and everything goes. Just my thoughts, Marc Lawrence PAKAMUT-Torrance --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Jeremiah Hosch" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Testing, Training or Irresponsible Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:18:02 -0600 Organization: Strategic Defense Systems Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have them if you want a copy, e-mail me direct at realitycombat@peoplepc.com -----Original Message----- From: ILDEFONSO ODAL [mailto:o_jhun@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 5:24 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Testing, Training or Irresponsible Where can I order this DVD of Tuhon Tom Keir, please let me know... it it similar to the Dog Brothers? Thanks Jun ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel Arola To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:16:54 PM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Testing, Training or Irresponsible You guys just got to watch this DVD by Tuhon Tom Kier titled "Sayoc Kali STICKGRAPPLING". The scenes of fights in the dvd are pretty enlightening just from watching. Some practitioners are just willing to go this far just to see if what they've learned works. I can dig it! Daniel Arola Paul Harris wrote: Maybe I've lost some of my youthful bravdo but regardless of the label you put on it (testing or training) participating in full contact stick fighting with no gear in my book is plain irresponsible. Under no circumstances would I intentionally put myself into a situation where someone is swing a stick full force aimed at my head and not have at least head and eye protection. The risk (permanent, life long injury) versus any benefit you might gain via this type of "testing" just isn't justified IMHO. What happens on the street is to some extent out of your control. You've got to deal with the situation as it presents itself. Where you have control (training or testing) a common sense approach should be taken. What possible lessons can you learn by being cracked in the head full force with a stick? That it's not a good thing? _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net DAMAG-INC [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com Houston, Texas --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 7 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:44:28 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [Eskrima] List down Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reminder... Just an early heads-up that the list will be down next week. If all goes as planned, email sent to it will bounce back to you. So be advised. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:04:06 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sparring No Gear verses Gear To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For children training in FMA is a whole other area of discussion.... I'm all about gearing the kids up. Their bodies are still growing and developing. -Daniel Arola Ruel Apostol wrote: Hey c'mon, we have our no-armor or minimal protectors formats too. Protective Gears is our amateur format so that it is kid-safe, and olympics-friendly. I'm not trying to say that taekwondo is good, but I am just saying that armor is just an option depending on what is your goal. I mean, if arnis guys want it to be kid-safe or appealing to the public, then armor up. if you want to go extreme, then go on without the armor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rOx1omomHQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLkc_wtRih8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY6npVDGCNw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVJFmEz1rak http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3S91YOLP90 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsL6b46jdG0 My dos sentimos. ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel Arola To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 5:06:58 AM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sparring No Gear verses Gear Ray wrote: "...I do not want to see Eskrima go the route of Taekwondo." -Ray Terry --I feel ya man. I wouldn't be diggin it either. Daniel Arola DAMAG-INC [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com Houston, Texas --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net DAMAG-INC [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com Houston, Texas --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest