Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 02:48:24 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #363 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2500 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: FULL CONTACT NO RULES (bgdebuque) 2. Re: Sparring (Beungood8@aol.com) 3. Merry Christmas (Rocky) 4. Re: training for the street (Kim Satterfield) 5. Full Contact with no protective gear? Amen (GatPuno@aol.com) 6. Re: Re: training for the street (B Katz) 7. RE: Re: training for the street (Jeremiah Hosch) 8. list down (Ray) 9. Re: Re: training for the street (Mike Casto) 10. Re: Re: training for the street (Daniel Arola) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 02:16:06 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] FULL CONTACT NO RULES Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The answer of military establishments for the eternal warrior dilemma you have described are the so-called "confidence-building drills" - which can range from making trainees crawl under a curtain of fixed elevation live machine gun fire to simulated gassing in an enclosed space. With respect to the FMA, the best way would probably be to reverse-engineer the whole training process by identifying the specific threats that the practitioner would likely encounter in the street. From there, specific "confidence-building drills" should be designed to address the specific threat. This would probably result into the expansion of the range of with-protective-gear full-contact sparring competition from the current stick-vs-stick or empty hand-vs-empty hand paradigm into the more realistic stick-vs-blade, stick-vs-firearm, blade-vs-firearm, blade-vs-blade, etc. At the same time, the frequency of no-contact live weapons sparring sessions should be increased (I am assuming here that this is already part of your FMA curriculum, as should be the case). Another military training concept that can be adopted to the FMA is "on location" drills. Let's face it, what is the probability that the initial real-life application of your FMA skills will be in a dojo-like setting? On-site training on locations where you would most likely expect such incident to happen can go a long way in building your self-confidence when the "moment of truth" arrives. Sparring sessions should, therefore, not only be conducted in an a dojo-like setting. Practitioners should also spar on hallways, doorways, stairways, back alleys, dining halls, etc. > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Tarn Shadowhawk > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 6:23:25 PM > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] FULL CONTACT NO RULES > > Well I train every day and I STILL don't know how I > would function in real life situation. My skill and > heart tell me I can handle anything and I never panic, > but how can anyone be 100% sure until the chips are > down. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 00:56:08 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Sparring Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think you need to balance out realism with safety. What are you accomplishing when you put out an eye of your partner or yourself? We use minimal protection, Rattan sticks big and heavy,Hockey helmet with eye guard and gloves heavy enough to prevent a broken bone but light enough you only want to feel the hit once. We also use Fencing equipment (R-4 Rapier/Dagger with heavy blade from Tripplette Competition arms /Zen Warrior armory. While they won't break bones THEY HURT and after a wack from one will make you realize how important your footwork is to not getting hit again.... You just have to explain all the whip like bruises to your freinds.... Jack **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Rocky" To: Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:43:02 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Merry Christmas Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I want to wish a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, to everyone.... Thanks to Ray for the Site. Thanks to Kim S. Guru Crafty, Marc Mac, GM GatPuno, and everyone else that help to make the ED an informative and intersting digest. Be safe everyone. Rocky --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:32:05 -0800 (PST) From: Kim Satterfield To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: training for the street Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, This is the only post I'll make on this subject, because it is an area we can really get carried away with easily. I've worked in law enforcement/detention/ corrections for 22 years, and deal with these little ##@$%'s every day. The weapon of choice of the street thug is a gun. They don't have the time or inclination to train in anything that would improve their empty hand skills, they don't see the point anyway when a gun is so readily available, and they are predators, they aren't warriors looking to test their skills. They have one objective...to put you at a disadvantage as quickly as possible, and relieve you of any property you might have that they find to their liking. And this is a sad fact, but the FBI statistics are notoriously wrong. They are influenced by any number of factors, but trust me, FBI statistics rarely reflect the reality of the street. Those of us in the field, who practically live with thugs on a daily basis, hardly ever take these stats seriously. Kim Message: 10 Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:56:55 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: full contact training To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Actually, according to the FBI statistics from 2004 (all I could quickly find) - http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/aggravated_assault.html - if you get attacked it will most likely *not* be with a gun. A little less than 20% of the aggravated assaults in America in '04 involved firearms. Over half involved some other form of weapon with nearly half of those being edged weapons. And the remainder were empty hand attacks. This means that, statistically, our training in MA - and, especially close-quarters weapons, as in FMA - is absolutely vital for anyone seriously interested in protection of self/others. === message truncated === In the words of the late, great John Belushi, "Wise Up" --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 08:51:45 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Full Contact with no protective gear? Amen Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Paul, You hit the point "Bulleye" Amen to that. This is what I am talking about a years ago when I start posting here in ED. But like I said before, everytime I open this topic, I gained friends and gained many negative friends too. Way to go train hard, as real aproach as possible. There is a way to learn this, our ancestor didi it without Armor and they live to tell stories to the young generation, tell you what, its works for me, hope to work for you all. Anyway Merry Christmas to all and hope you have a prosperous New Year. As we spending our holiday stay away from un-safe"Fire-works" for New Years. I know in the Philippines this is the big year of "Fireworks" accident. Peace to all, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com > > Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:54:21 -0800 (PST) > From: Paul Harris > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Full Contact Stick Training - No Gear > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >   "What is to be gained by full contact training? > My answer: Proper undilluted technique. Here we are > again in the politics of the martial arts / self > defense world. Take a good hard look at the > difference. Does it scare you? Re-evaluate what > you're learning, practicing, teaching. Does > everything still fall in line with why you started > training in the first place? Be true to yourself!" >    >   My comments were not about full contact stick sparring but full contact > stick sparring WITHOUT protective gear. >    >   I've taken enough hard hits WITH head gear to learn the lesson that > avoiding a hit is a good thing and that there is no substitute for learning "proper > undiluted technique" that works in realistic situations. >    >   If you accept the concept of full force stick sparring with no rules or > protective gear (that there is some lesson in doing it that can't be learned > some other way) and take it to its logical conclusion we would be talking about > knife sparring with live blades or force on force close quarters firearms > training with life ammo. >    >   Again, realism in training is important but you have to weight the risk > involved in elevating the level of realism with the rewards that can be gain, > and at the same time consider ways to gain those same benefits while > minimizing the risk. > > ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 09:51:03 -0800 (PST) From: B Katz Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: training for the street To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net OK, here's my bit on practical application. I'm an ettiquette enforcement technician at a local "gentleman's club". I am involved in a physical confrontation on a nearly nightly basis. I have found that there is no training that can prepare you for the variables that you will find in a street-type situation. You can train until your asleep on your feet every day, covering everything that you can think of and still manage to get surprised with alarming frequency. What has helped me the most is the constant reinforcement of training the angles of attack and the basic counters for each. Simple counters that can be quickly applied with quick results seem to be all that I need to do my job well. Paraphrasing Bruce Lee, If it doesn't work don't train it. Occam's Razor is the deadliest weapon on the street! Theory is fine, kata is pretty to watch, but when the feces hits the ocillating ventilator, I am a huge fan of a good swift kick in the pills. Training for the street is WAAAY more than technique, it's training the eye to see without seeing, the ear to hear without listening, creating awareness of your surroundings. There is no tapping out in an alley at 3 in the morning. The question that needs to be answered is who wants to go home to the wife and kids more? www.eskrimacustoms.com Fine hand-crafted hardwood bastons and training knives --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Jeremiah Hosch" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: training for the street Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:55:11 -0600 Organization: Strategic Defense Systems Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Maybe you should try training with Paul Vunak. -----Original Message----- From: B Katz [mailto:cutsandbruises_99@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 11:51 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: training for the street OK, here's my bit on practical application. I'm an ettiquette enforcement technician at a local "gentleman's club". I am involved in a physical confrontation on a nearly nightly basis. I have found that there is no training that can prepare you for the variables that you will find in a street-type situation. You can train until your asleep on your feet every day, covering everything that you can think of and still manage to get surprised with alarming frequency. What has helped me the most is the constant reinforcement of training the angles of attack and the basic counters for each. Simple counters that can be quickly applied with quick results seem to be all that I need to do my job well. Paraphrasing Bruce Lee, If it doesn't work don't train it. Occam's Razor is the deadliest weapon on the street! Theory is fine, kata is pretty to watch, but when the feces hits the ocillating ventilator, I am a huge fan of a good swift kick in the pills. Training for the street is WAAAY more than technique, it's training the eye to see without seeing, the ear to hear without listening, creating awareness of your surroundings. There is no tapping out in an alley at 3 in the morning. The question that needs to be answered is who wants to go home to the wife and kids more? www.eskrimacustoms.com Fine hand-crafted hardwood bastons and training knives _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 8 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:09:39 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [Eskrima] list down Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Final reminder... Just a heads-up that the list will be down next week. If all goes as planned, email sent to it will bounce back to you. So be advised. Merry Christmas! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:39:40 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: training for the street To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This is an extension (rather than a counter) to Mr. Katz's post. In my experience, the most useful part of training has been flow. Flowing from one thing to another without hesitation based on the energy of the moment. Integrating flow into my body has meant that I didn't have to try to train for every possible scenario (which, as you point out, is impossible). I just have to stay present in the moment and flow with it, making a series of minute adjustments according to the shifting variables of the moment and, through the duration of the encounter, those minute adjustments add up, and, generally, get me on top of the food chain, so to speak. I would say that mindset is another important factor - I consider it on par with flow and to have a chance at reaching peak performance, I think the two have to be co-dependent on each other. Without mindset, flow has no purpose and, eventually, will falter. Without flow, the mindset has a hard time finding outlets - when a wall is hit, mindset-without-flow will keep butting his head against that wall until one of them breaks. Flow with mindset means that there's plenty of goal-driven aggression with a flexible enough approach that very few obstacles pose much of a problem. The mindset I'm talking about is simple - define the job you want to accomplish, then do whatever it takes to get that job done in the shortest amount of time possible. As Bruce Lee put it, "If a man wants to bite your nose off and that is his sole intent and purpose in the fight then he will probably succeed. You'll have to kill him to stop him and there's still a good chance that he'll die with your nose in his mouth." That mindset, coupled with flow, is, in my experience, a very powerful combination. Mike ----- Original Message ---- From: B Katz To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:51:03 PM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: training for the street OK, here's my bit on practical application. I'm an ettiquette enforcement technician at a local "gentleman's club". I am involved in a physical confrontation on a nearly nightly basis. I have found that there is no training that can prepare you for the variables that you will find in a street-type situation. You can train until your asleep on your feet every day, covering everything that you can think of and still manage to get surprised with alarming frequency. What has helped me the most is the constant reinforcement of training the angles of attack and the basic counters for each. Simple counters that can be quickly applied with quick results seem to be all that I need to do my job well. Paraphrasing Bruce Lee, If it doesn't work don't train it. Occam's Razor is the deadliest weapon on the street! Theory is fine, kata is pretty to watch, but when the feces hits the ocillating ventilator, I am a huge fan of a good swift kick in the pills. Training for the street is WAAAY more than technique, it's training the eye to see without seeing, the ear to hear without listening, creating awareness of your surroundings. There is no tapping out in an alley at 3 in the morning. The question that needs to be answered is who wants to go home to the wife and kids more? www.eskrimacustoms.com Fine hand-crafted hardwood bastons and training knives _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:57:15 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: training for the street To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I've done more than my fair share as a bouncer at a gentleman's club, the last establishment being in a military town and even more fun was when I finally got sent to work outside in the parking lot where it all begins and ends. It takes a street-forged state of mind just to maintain awareness and experience to toughen you up. The best you can make out of your experience is to make sure you don't make any of the same mistakes you may have made the last time. Daniel Arola B Katz wrote: OK, here's my bit on practical application. I'm an ettiquette enforcement technician at a local "gentleman's club". I am involved in a physical confrontation on a nearly nightly basis. I have found that there is no training that can prepare you for the variables that you will find in a street-type situation. You can train until your asleep on your feet every day, covering everything that you can think of and still manage to get surprised with alarming frequency. What has helped me the most is the constant reinforcement of training the angles of attack and the basic counters for each. Simple counters that can be quickly applied with quick results seem to be all that I need to do my job well. Paraphrasing Bruce Lee, If it doesn't work don't train it. Occam's Razor is the deadliest weapon on the street! Theory is fine, kata is pretty to watch, but when the feces hits the ocillating ventilator, I am a huge fan of a good swift kick in the pills. Training for the street is WAAAY more than technique, it's training the eye to see without seeing, the ear to hear without listening, creating awareness of your surroundings. There is no tapping out in an alley at 3 in the morning. The question that needs to be answered is who wants to go home to the wife and kids more? www.eskrimacustoms.com Fine hand-crafted hardwood bastons and training knives _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net DAMAG-INC [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com Houston, Texas --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest