Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:48:23 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #24 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2500 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Bad people trying to learn FMA (Perry Gil Mallari) 2. More on Dog Bros on Nat Geo; Porn Star Dog in DC (Marc Denny) 3. Re: Bad people trying to learn FMA (Mike Casto) 4. Re: Bad people trying to learn FMA (Daniel Arola) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:33:53 -0800 (PST) From: Perry Gil Mallari To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Bad people trying to learn FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Very well said... "My point being this, are bad people trying to learn FMA really that much of a problem? The bad guys certainly know as much or more than most of us when it comes to hurting people. Are we talking about offensive knife skills? The pointy end goes into the other guy, repeat till he stops twitching. There are countless inmates and ex-inmates all over the world that have the knowledge and most notable the real life experience of using a blade on someone else. They have even been known to study anatomy books to learn the best targets. I'd also wager most FMA instructors have never and will never be in a fight with blades of any type, and as such are merely dealing with martial theory. The bad people do not have time for theories. They need to do their business as fast and effortlessly as they can. And the best way to learn that is from someone who has really done it." --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:38:02 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] More on Dog Bros on Nat Geo; Porn Star Dog in DC Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: >> Here's the times for National Geographic's documentary "Fight Club" (not >> my >> choice for a name!) on the Dog Brothers: > > Congrats on getting "published" yet again. Couldn't happen to a more > deserving eskrimador... > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com Thank you Ray. > From: Andrew Maddox > > > On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Marc Denny wrote: > >>> > Hey, congratulations, that's pretty big time coverage - are you (and the > other Bros and Sistern) happy with the final cut? Did they come out with a > decent product, one that you like? Mostly yes. There were some points that I was not happy with though. 1) Over my repeated requests, there was no mention of where all this came from. I begged for just 90 seconds to say that this came from the Philippines, how it came to America, how we received it etc-- but was rejected 2) My repeated requests for something explaining what is involved in the fights e.g. hand shots was rejected. Similarly my repeated requests for showing something more than 5-8 second snippets of fights (maybe even with slow motion!) were rejected. 3) The high estrogen pyscho-babble professors were , , , well lets just say they served as a foil to our tale. Overall though I think they did a good job on the humanity of it. > Definitely. > > And on a side note, I haven;t checked recently - are there any Canine > Brethren active in the Washington, DC area these days? I'm thinking that > joining up with such like-minded nutballs ;-) might be just what me MA > need to kickstart my practice. Been in something of a rut for a couple > years now... Yes, Dog Brothers Martial Arts Instructor Brian "Porn Star Dog" Jungwiwattanattaporn, who had extensive private time with me while he lived in Los Angeles, is in DC now after a couple of years in Bangladesh and Thailand. A word of explanation on the name-- Brian is a very shy and humble guy -- so for his name we riffed on the last four letters of his name to give him a sobriquet that we thought might encourage the ladies to think that we had seen him in the shower , , , but I digress. Anyway, he is going for his Masters Degree at John Hopkins and teaching privately as well as teaching regularly at Team Ruthless in Manassas VA, where I give seminars a couple of times a year. His stick skills are an excellent representation of DBMA "Los Triques" (blending Kali and Krabi Krabong i.e. the 3 Ks, i.e. Los Tree Ks i.e. Los Triques. A couple of his fights appear in our next release "The Dos Triques Formula" (release date about 3 weeks from now) with one of them being the highlight of the DVD. He's a true sleeper, upon meeting him you would never have an idea of the level he can fight at. > Congrats again, Marc and all! > afm Thank you. The Adventure continues, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:17:20 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Bad people trying to learn FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net One of the 9/11 terrorists had trained with an FMA instructor ... did it help him in some way? Probably not. Could/would he have done the same thing without that FMA training? Almost certainly. But it's still food for thought ... some of the bad guys are actually seeking out better instruction. I knew a guy once, a fellow Eskrimador, who told me that when he was young he ran with a gang and they did some "knife training" drills. The drills were simple but effective - especially within the parameters of their intended purpose. Mostly what they drilled was concealment and getting a quick, clean cut from concealment with minimal risk of anyone seeing the blade or the target realizing he'd been cut. The objective was this: cut the target somewhere like the arm, the blade is kept sharp enough that the target won't immediately feel it, follow the target until he (or someone else) notices he's cut, in the confusion caused by the "sudden appearance of a cut" grab target's wallet and vanish into crowd. This guy went on to say, though, that he's very glad none of the guys in his gang had had any FMA training because they might have decided to up the ante if they had some training and it may have cost some targets more than a few stitches and their wallet. HOWEVER ... the thing more pressing problem I see is this: I'm marginally worried about the "bad guy" coming to train both from a moral and legal standpoint - if he attacks someone with a blade and, during the investigation, it comes out that he had "blade training" from me then I end up in court, too (may or may not be criminal charges but a civil suit would suck, too). For the same moral/legal reasons, though, I'm far more concerned with the "stupid guy" coming to train with me. This guy probably won't have a record but he's got the kind of personality that can lead to this: (a) he gets some "blade training" and (b) decides to carry a blade or if he already carries one he becomes much more likely to actually think about pulling it under stress then (c) he pulls it and stabs someone in a situation that should have been dealt with via some other, less harmful means. If that happens and they find out he trained with me then, oops, I'm back in court again for one reason or another and none of it is going to be much fun for me. This has happened at least once recently that I'm aware of - a guy stabbed a bouncer in a bar a couple of years ago (if I remember correctly, it happened in NYC and the bouncer died) and the guy's FMA instructor wound up in legal hot water. But I think several people have already hit the nail on the head in this discussion. A background check doesn't hurt. But the most important thing to use is common sense. I recently had to "fire" a student. This guy had come in and watched several classes and then actually attended a few. There was a strange vibe (that everyone in the school felt) about the guy from day one. His first couple of classes, he was training with one of my senior students, Les, running the class because I was out of town. Les called and told me the guy seemed a little "off." I feel obligated to make these kinds of judgments from first-hand knowledge so I filed Les's observations into the "keep in mind" category and when I got back to town this guy came to class. It quickly became apparent in his words/manner that he didn't have a solid rooting in reality. I got the distinct impression that he has some schizophrenic tendencies. Meds might help but, for all I know, he's already on meds and that's why he's able to function to the extent that he does in society. Anyway, after that class, I told him he wasn't cut out for training with me. If I don't feel like I can trust someone, then I don't train them. The teacher/student relationship is no different from any other relationship. Without trust, there is *no* relationship. Mike ----- Original Message ---- From: Perry Gil Mallari To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 12:33:53 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Bad people trying to learn FMA Very well said... "My point being this, are bad people trying to learn FMA really that much of a problem? The bad guys certainly know as much or more than most of us when it comes to hurting people. Are we talking about offensive knife skills? The pointy end goes into the other guy, repeat till he stops twitching. There are countless inmates and ex-inmates all over the world that have the knowledge and most notable the real life experience of using a blade on someone else. They have even been known to study anatomy books to learn the best targets. I'd also wager most FMA instructors have never and will never be in a fight with blades of any type, and as such are merely dealing with martial theory. The bad people do not have time for theories. They need to do their business as fast and effortlessly as they can. And the best way to learn that is from someone who has really done it." --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:58:56 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Bad people trying to learn FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There will always be "bad" people that do train for purposes that are out of moral bounds. It's the instructors themselves who have the choice to choose whether or not to teach these kinds of people for as long as they recognize the dark motives behind their training. The best thing we can do is to train even harder and better to be one up on the game over them. That's what I think. Can you dig it? -Daniel Arola Mike Casto wrote: One of the 9/11 terrorists had trained with an FMA instructor ... did it help him in some way? Probably not. Could/would he have done the same thing without that FMA training? Almost certainly. But it's still food for thought ... some of the bad guys are actually seeking out better instruction. I knew a guy once, a fellow Eskrimador, who told me that when he was young he ran with a gang and they did some "knife training" drills. The drills were simple but effective - especially within the parameters of their intended purpose. Mostly what they drilled was concealment and getting a quick, clean cut from concealment with minimal risk of anyone seeing the blade or the target realizing he'd been cut. The objective was this: cut the target somewhere like the arm, the blade is kept sharp enough that the target won't immediately feel it, follow the target until he (or someone else) notices he's cut, in the confusion caused by the "sudden appearance of a cut" grab target's wallet and vanish into crowd. This guy went on to say, though, that he's very glad none of the guys in his gang had had any FMA training because they might have decided to up the ante if they had some training and it may have cost some targets more than a few stitches and their wallet. HOWEVER ... the thing more pressing problem I see is this: I'm marginally worried about the "bad guy" coming to train both from a moral and legal standpoint - if he attacks someone with a blade and, during the investigation, it comes out that he had "blade training" from me then I end up in court, too (may or may not be criminal charges but a civil suit would suck, too). For the same moral/legal reasons, though, I'm far more concerned with the "stupid guy" coming to train with me. This guy probably won't have a record but he's got the kind of personality that can lead to this: (a) he gets some "blade training" and (b) decides to carry a blade or if he already carries one he becomes much more likely to actually think about pulling it under stress then (c) he pulls it and stabs someone in a situation that should have been dealt with via some other, less harmful means. If that happens and they find out he trained with me then, oops, I'm back in court again for one reason or another and none of it is going to be much fun for me. This has happened at least once recently that I'm aware of - a guy stabbed a bouncer in a bar a couple of years ago (if I remember correctly, it happened in NYC and the bouncer died) and the guy's FMA instructor wound up in legal hot water. But I think several people have already hit the nail on the head in this discussion. A background check doesn't hurt. But the most important thing to use is common sense. I recently had to "fire" a student. This guy had come in and watched several classes and then actually attended a few. There was a strange vibe (that everyone in the school felt) about the guy from day one. His first couple of classes, he was training with one of my senior students, Les, running the class because I was out of town. Les called and told me the guy seemed a little "off." I feel obligated to make these kinds of judgments from first-hand knowledge so I filed Les's observations into the "keep in mind" category and when I got back to town this guy came to class. It quickly became apparent in his words/manner that he didn't have a solid rooting in reality. I got the distinct impression that he has some schizophrenic tendencies. Meds might help but, for all I know, he's already on meds and that's why he's able to function to the extent that he does in society. Anyway, after that class, I told him he wasn't cut out for training with me. If I don't feel like I can trust someone, then I don't train them. The teacher/student relationship is no different from any other relationship. Without trust, there is *no* relationship. Mike ----- Original Message ---- From: Perry Gil Mallari To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 12:33:53 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Bad people trying to learn FMA Very well said... "My point being this, are bad people trying to learn FMA really that much of a problem? The bad guys certainly know as much or more than most of us when it comes to hurting people. Are we talking about offensive knife skills? The pointy end goes into the other guy, repeat till he stops twitching. There are countless inmates and ex-inmates all over the world that have the knowledge and most notable the real life experience of using a blade on someone else. They have even been known to study anatomy books to learn the best targets. I'd also wager most FMA instructors have never and will never be in a fight with blades of any type, and as such are merely dealing with martial theory. The bad people do not have time for theories. They need to do their business as fast and effortlessly as they can. And the best way to learn that is from someone who has really done it." --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net DAMAG-INC [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com Houston, Texas --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest