Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:21:01 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #33 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Eskrima - Serrada Eskrima. (William C. Prentice) 2. Re: As the blade stabs... (bgdebuque) 3. Re: As the blade stabs... (Tyler Murphy) 4. Re: Eskrima - Serrada Eskrima. (Andrew Maddox) 5. Re: As the blade stabs... (Ray) 6. How does you art translate to Empty Hands Question? (Lawrence, Marc J.) 7. Re: As the blade stabs... (Ray) 8. Absorb the entire art (Ray) 9. Re: Absorb the entire art (Mike Casto) 10. Re: How does you art translate to Empty Hands Question? (Ramon Espinosa) 11. Defensor Method College Newspaper Article (Sidney Stein) 12. Re: Defensor Method College Newspaper Article (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "William C. Prentice" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Eskrima - Serrada Eskrima. Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:53:53 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "How effective is Serrada Excrima?" As one of the really old guys in martial arts, I wait until I can contribute something that displays a little wisdom. I would like to comment briefly on Oliver's note. I began working out in Chinese Boxing and JKD over 40 years ago, with Tim Tackett, and then segued into escrima, and to some extent mma as that became a focus of innovation in the fighting arts. I have also had several armed and unarmed encounters, and I owe my presence here on earth to my instructors and my art. From that perspective, when I see a question about how effective something is, I am reminded of one of Sifu Tacket's lectures to me (I was about 15). The art that you study is only one aspect of the truth that you will face in combat - there are at least two others - one is "You," and the other is what I remember as the "Circumstance." The art you study is a progression of techniques and experiences that combine to enable you to respond meaningfully to the needs of combat, they constitute what you are taught, and what you discover. How you train, how realistically you train, whether you train yourself mentally as well as physically, all are part of You, as is your appetite for confrontations, how you feel right then and there, what you have been practicing most recently, the necessities that drive you, and so on. Circumstances of the confrontation, including who your opponents are, where you are, what weapons are being directed towards you, what weapons are available to you, and luck, are the third determinants of whether or not you are Effective. You have to work on all three things all the time. You select your art and your training partners based on how well it prepares you, and suits you as a fighter. You condition and train as best you can for what you believe you will have to respond to. You also exercise situational awareness at all times, and seek to control circumstantial aspects, including the presence of potential attackers, at all times. The measure of whether or not that particular combination of attributes was Effective or not is whether or not you survive. One of Bruce Lee's most important and oft-quoted maxims is that "freedom of expression towards the ultimate reality of combat is the goal of all martial artists." Another was the directive "Absorb what is useful, reject what is not, and add what is specifically your own." After 40 years, I find that he is more and more right. -----Original Message----- From: DeLeon, Oliver [mailto:ODeLeon@crai.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 11:44 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Eskrima - Serrada Eskrima. How effective is Serrada Eskrima? How does it compare to other forms of Eskrima? I have been a Serrada Eskrima for about 1 1/2 years now and I find the art fairly effective when apply to regular street fighting. The core of the system is the stick fighting which translates to empty hand but, what I would like to know is how does it compare to the other forms of eskrima. Any thoughts??? --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 22:15:04 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] As the blade stabs... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Even plain tap water can unnerve an opponent if he has never been splashed with it before in a real-life fighting situation. Which brings us to the question: How many of you out there have tried practicing your FMA fighting skills under rainy conditions? It might be a good idea specially if you are living in a tropical area like the Philippines where there is rainfall about 50% of the year... > -- __--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 02:11:09 -0800 (PST) > From: B Katz > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] As the blade stabs , , , > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > My first Guro was a big fan of this as well. I played with it once with > warm tap water and it is quite effective. My training partner FREAKED out > when he got hit in the face with what he thought was 190 degree > Starbucks.(Not a plug you understand, just that they brew hotter than anyone > else!) > > He turtled-up trying to protect his eyes and gave me any target that I > could have wanted to hit. What's the old agdage about "Old age and treachery > always overcoming youth and skill"? --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 07:00:32 -0800 (PST) From: Tyler Murphy Subject: Re: [Eskrima] As the blade stabs... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sometimes to simulate blood I have used old motor oil to grease knife handles. I wouldn't do this to your favorite blades however because it stains the handle rather badly. Tyler ----- Original Message ---- From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2008 10:15:04 PM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] As the blade stabs... Even plain tap water can unnerve an opponent if he has never been splashed with it before in a real-life fighting situation. Which brings us to the question: How many of you out there have tried practicing your FMA fighting skills under rainy conditions? It might be a good idea specially if you are living in a tropical area like the Philippines where there is rainfall about 50% of the year... > -- __--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 02:11:09 -0800 (PST) > From: B Katz > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] As the blade stabs , , , > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > My first Guro was a big fan of this as well. I played with it once with > warm tap water and it is quite effective. My training partner FREAKED out > when he got hit in the face with what he thought was 190 degree > Starbucks.(Not a plug you understand, just that they brew hotter than anyone > else!) > > He turtled-up trying to protect his eyes and gave me any target that I > could have wanted to hit. What's the old agdage about "Old age and treachery > always overcoming youth and skill"? _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 17:36:37 +0000 (UTC) From: Andrew Maddox To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Eskrima - Serrada Eskrima. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Tue, 5 Feb 2008, DeLeon, Oliver wrote: > How effective is Serrada Eskrima? > How does it compare to other forms of Eskrima? I don't practice Serrada eskrima, and have only had limited exposure to it (one or two seminars about 15 years ago, and a few people who've been in clubs I practiced with who had prior training in Serrada), but what I've seen of it impressed me as very good. I know it's the artist, not the art, but Serrada seems to integrate things very well, and its focus on short range, close quarters fighting is very well developed (in my very small opinion). As for how it compares to other forms of eskrima, I don't know enough to say. I can only say that, from the outside, it seems like a very good style, and that it seems to have quite a few *really* good instructors around. I think the organization is pretty selective about who they authorize to teach. Can't remember the details now, but I heard a few stories over the years about GM Cabales, and he sounds like he was a man who really knew what he was doing. From quite real experience. So there's my tuppence worth ;-) afm -- Andrew Maddox, madsox2k at freeshell dot org Practitioner of Unaffiliated Martial Arts But really just, like, this guy, y'know? --__--__-- Message: 5 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] As the blade stabs... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 09:49:17 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Which brings us to the question: How many of you out there have tried > practicing your FMA fighting skills under rainy conditions? It might be a > good idea specially if you are living in a tropical area like the > Philippines where there is rainfall about 50% of the year... Or any regularly prevailing environmental situation... Dark, street light in eyes, street light behind, mud, ice, with heavy coat on, gravel on an asphalt parking lot, etc., etc. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:54:25 -0600 From: "Lawrence, Marc J." To: Subject: [Eskrima] How does you art translate to Empty Hands Question? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Quote: >From: "DeLeon, Oliver" >How effective is Serrada Eskrima? How does it compare to other forms of Eskrima? >I have been a Serrada Eskrima for about 1 1/2 years now and I find the art fairly effective when apply to >regular street fighting. The core of the system is the stick fighting which translates to empty hand >but, what I would like to know is how does it compare to the other forms of >eskrima. Any thoughts??? I am not sure about others but I know that my style- PAKAMUT translates very well to Empty Hands. Our Grand Master always stresses the concept that the stick is just an extension of the hand/arm. We practice empty hands verses empty hands, empty hands verse weapon, and empty hands verses stick. My 12 year old son last summer decided to apply his empty hands against another art in tournament. So he fought in a local tournament-Kung Fu, in the Jr Black belt division. He had four fighters and he beat all of them in back to back matches. They only gave him a 2 minute rest between. Because of his stick fighting conditioning he beat them. I have wondered how many other FMA styles are like us. Guro Marc PAKAMUT-Torrance --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] As the blade stabs... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 12:08:13 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Sometimes to simulate blood I have used old motor oil to grease knife > handles. I wouldn't do this to your favorite blades however because it > stains the handle rather badly. Use KY Jelly... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 12:06:43 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [Eskrima] Absorb the entire art Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > ... Another was > the directive "Absorb what is useful, reject what is not, and add what is > specifically your own." After 40 years, I find that he is more and more > right. Of course the obvious fallacy with this approach has always been that portions of the art are then lost over time. Fine if you are only ever going to be a student. But if you plan on passing along the art, rejecting what is not useful means things that you yourself cannot make work will be lost to those that could have made it work. Always a student. Sometimes a teacher... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 12:35:28 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Absorb the entire art To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Not necessarily. What is "useful" may include material that doesn't suit me but that I retain in order to teach. I know that's not how it's usually interpreted but it is a possible interpretation. "Useful" is vague and can be interpreted and applied to any facet of training. What is useful for a "fighter" will differ from what is useful for a "martial artist" and that will differ from what is useful for a "teacher." Also, it is a fact that portions of the art will get lost regardless and modifications will be made and new things will be developed. That's part of evolution. Sometimes it's intentional. Sometimes it's not. But it will always happen because no matter how long I train with my instructor, my personal understanding of the material will differ from his because I am not him - I have different physical characteristics, I have a different background and experience set that gives me a different perspective. Consequently, no matter how much I stay true to what my instructor taught me, there will be differences. There will be things lost - may or may not mean technical material - and there will be things modified and added. Either consciously or unconsciously on my part. There will be different facets emphasized in different ways. There's no way around it. One of my instructors actually encourages this intentionally. He told me once, "When I teach, I leave holes. It's not to keep the student down - just the opposite. He has to develop and research and fill in those holes on his own - this strengthens him as a martial artist and it keeps the art 'alive.' His students, in turn, will be stronger because of their teacher's experience." Mike ----- Original Message ---- From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2008 3:06:43 PM Subject: [Eskrima] Absorb the entire art > ... Another was > the directive "Absorb what is useful, reject what is not, and add what is > specifically your own." After 40 years, I find that he is more and more > right. Of course the obvious fallacy with this approach has always been that portions of the art are then lost over time. Fine if you are only ever going to be a student. But if you plan on passing along the art, rejecting what is not useful means things that you yourself cannot make work will be lost to those that could have made it work. Always a student. Sometimes a teacher... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 12:13:54 -0800 From: "Ramon Espinosa" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] How does you art translate to Empty Hands Question? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net *"I have wondered how many other FMA styles are like us."* I study Kombatan and in our training it's taught the same, sticks are the extension of our hands. I have found my hands are much faster as well after swinging the sticks. Striking and blocking with empty hands has a lot of correlation to the stick strikes and blocking. I would assume that most FMA is like this, but that's just my assumption. --Ramon On 2/6/08, Lawrence, Marc J. wrote: > > Quote: > >From: "DeLeon, Oliver" > >How effective is Serrada Eskrima? How does it compare to other forms of > Eskrima? > >I have been a Serrada Eskrima for about 1 1/2 years now and I find the > art fairly effective when apply to >regular street fighting. The core > of the system is the stick fighting which translates to empty hand >but, > what I would like to know is how does it compare to the other forms of > >eskrima. Any thoughts??? > > I am not sure about others but I know that my style- PAKAMUT translates > very well to Empty Hands. Our Grand Master always stresses the concept > that the stick is just an extension of the hand/arm. We practice empty > hands verses empty hands, empty hands verse weapon, and empty hands > verses stick. My 12 year old son last summer decided to apply his empty > hands against another art in tournament. So he fought in a local > tournament-Kung Fu, in the Jr Black belt division. He had four fighters > and he beat all of them in back to back matches. They only gave him a 2 > minute rest between. Because of his stick fighting conditioning he beat > them. I have wondered how many other FMA styles are like us. > > Guro Marc > PAKAMUT-Torrance > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Sidney Stein To: Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:22:27 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Defensor Method College Newspaper Article Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There is an article in the the Columbia College of Chicago newspaper on the Defensor Method of Filipino Indonesian Martial Arts. Here is the link http://www.columbiachronicle.com/paper/arts.php?id=4679 salamat Sid _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your HotmailŪ-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx --__--__-- Message: 12 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Defensor Method College Newspaper Article To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:07:52 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > There is an article in the the Columbia College of Chicago newspaper on the > Defensor Method of Filipino Indonesian Martial Arts. Here is the link > > http://www.columbiachronicle.com/paper/arts.php?id=4679 Drat! No pics of Nate... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest