Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 02:48:21 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #42 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. competition and eskrima (Federico Malibago) 2. BJJ BB thru the mail (Ray) 3. Re: BJJ BB thru the mail (jay de leon) 4. Re: A Tale of Two Tournaments (bgdebuque) 5. Re: A Tale of Two Tournaments (Ray) 6. Re: A Tale of Two Tournaments (B Katz) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:55:53 -0500 (EST) From: Federico Malibago To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] competition and eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net At least for myself, while I do not like most current tournament formats, I cannot agree with a desire to keep the art hidden and only in the purveyence of a select chosen elite. Too often one hears stories of how deadly so and so's style is, or how deadly their isntructor is. Yet what is there to base those claims on. Its amazing how much crazy useless stuff will work against someone with no experience, and how easy it is for a student with no experience to be schooled by someone with mediocre experience. Just in the school in which I train, I watched a student with 6 mos of weekly sparring experience go against a student with just 6 sparring matches, and it was easy for him to dance around the other student. Yet, even he will admit he is nothing special. Yet there are plenty of instructors out there, who purposely spar seldomly, and prevent their own students from sparring as well, so that on the rare occaision they do step into the ring, they can still dominate and say that theyre better than their students. For me such instructors are like a grown man walking into an elementary school, beating up all the kindergaten students, and claiming to be super deadly. What do such feats prove, that you have a A-hole for an instructor. To make things worse, there are many instructors are out there who never spar at all, their students think they are tough simply because the beat them up demonstrating a technique where they require their student to stand still and take the punishment. Its real easy to beat someone up who just stands still. If you never test the waters, how do you know your stuff works. And yes sadly, even in our beloved FMAs, there are many who insist on never testing the waters, and only fantasize about fighting. I dont care how many thousands of times you practice your techniques, how great you get at drilling, if you never fight, how can you claim to be "deadly". I know for myself, when I was in TKD, did all sorts of great breaking demos, point sparred, knew my forms, and believed my instructor when he said we were fighters, that my first real fight against someone with no training, but who had fought on the street (ok I also hate all the talk about the deadly street fighter just because someone fights on the street doesnt defacto make him super deadly, yes there are guys like that, but there are equally a large number of plain bullies whose street fighting credentials are a series of fights against people who could be beaten by looking at them funny), it was a real shocker when that first real punch connected, and my opponent didnt take and do the things I was trained to go up against (e.g. another TKD player). Even when your school is a decent school, who fights, and tries to better each other at the skill of fighting, how do you know you arent just training to fight each other, only to be schooled once you fight someone who hasnt been brain washed by you. At least for me, that is why I like the idea of keeping FMA open. How can you claim to be the best, or super deadly, if youve never even fought someone you have never fought before, and who may not have the same philosophy/style as you. Now of course tournament fightings have their own problems, e.g. too much padding, stoppage after one hit, etc...making the fight scenario unrealistic. Yet its still better than simply fantasizing about how deadly one is. Then there are also guys like the Dog Brothers, testing the waters (I just wish they held there gatherings in more than just California for those of us too poor to fly out). This is what made our art strong, the old masters challenging eachother, forcing eachother to back their claims of mastery by the clashing of sticks or the smacking of blades. They did not get better by hiding in some cave and simply thinking about fighting. If that is what makes a better fighter, why even bother doing FMA at all. I can sit at home and think about fighting all I want, or do forms all day long by myself, instead of spending money to be a member of a dojo. Definitely would be easier on my body, not being whacked with sticks, kicked and punched, and twisted in ways it wasnt meant to be twisted. At least for myself, as a proud Pinoy, I dont trust an instructor who claims to be super deadly and has never fought, or seeks only to fight a select hand picked cadre of students he has brainwashed. To me that is a man who is simply Yabang. --__--__-- Message: 2 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:06:56 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [Eskrima] BJJ BB thru the mail Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Get your BJJ 1st Dan via the web. http://www.abjja.com Ray "a greatgrandmaster via the web" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:47:49 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] BJJ BB thru the mail To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net not just 1st dan, you can become an instructor via the web. and how much did your title cost you, o great grandmaster Terry? did it come with fries, supersized? Ray wrote: Get your BJJ 1st Dan via the web. http://www.abjja.com Ray "a greatgrandmaster via the web" Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 00:25:26 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A Tale of Two Tournaments Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I hate to disappoint you boys but it seems that young martial experts are not really a recent Korean TKD or Japanese Judo "invention". Below is an excerpt from p. 239 of the book "The Weapons and Fighting Arts of Indonesia" written by the late Donn F. Draeger in 1972: "... A wide variety of weapons, some indigenous to the Moluccas, is studied. But most specialized are the "tjabang" (a weapon similar to the Japanese Sai) and the "pisau" (knife).... The "tjabang" expert in Batumerah is Husin Karim, a fact made unusual in that Karim is nine years old. His technique is smoothly rhythmic and effective (and in the Author's opinion is equal to any he has witnessed elsewhere in Indonesia, Okinawa or Japan)." You can also find the excerpt below on p. 10 of the Victor Harris translation of "The Book of Five Rings": "Whether he (Musashi) was urged to pursue Kendo by his uncle, or whether his aggressive nature led him to it, we do not know, but it is recorded that he slew a man in combat when he was just thirteen. The opponent was Arima Kihei, a samurai of the Shinto Ryu school of military arts, skilled with sword and spear. The boy threw him to the ground, and beat him about the head with a stick when he tried to rise." It seems that, more than 300 years ago, when he was just 13, the Great Musashi was already able to kill an adult Samurai Warrior with just a stick.... > -- __--__-- > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:35:03 -0800 (PST) > From: B Katz > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A Tale of Two Tournaments > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Having a sport aspect and tournaments probably will show all of the > benefits to the FMAs that it did for TKD and judo. My concern is at what > cost? I think that the principle of diminishing returns applies here. > Eventually things will grow to a point where the subtlties and nuance will > be lost. How many of us can look at a 12 year old TKD black belt and see a > master of a fighting art? --__--__-- Message: 5 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A Tale of Two Tournaments To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:26:08 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > The future is within the youth! I honestly think one way to attract the > youth to FMA, is the same way TKD has grown, is through competitions and the > sport aspect of the art. imho, what has happened to Taekwondo in the last 35 years is not the best example to use. TKDers have gone from being fighters that everyone with half a brain feared, to one that most with a brain now point at and laugh. A sport? Yes. A martial art? No so much these days... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:30:59 -0800 (PST) From: B Katz Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A Tale of Two Tournaments To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I wholeheartedly agree that the youth is the future! My son is the youngest member of our group. He just turned 13 this month. However, he suffers no illusions that her will be a "master" in a matter of moments. The problem that I have with the little ones is probably best illustrated by a story related to me by a friend from PA. He was outside a MCDojo in a strip mall waiting for his Missus and watched a young blackbelt standing outside get punched in the mug by a neighborhood kid. The little "Master's" response... run into the dojo crying. Not really on a par with the lad from Draeger's book or Musashi's run-in with the samurai. I hope against hope that the FMAs do not follow in the footsteps of quanity over quality that so many other systems have done. www.eskrimacustoms.com Fine hand-crafted hardwood bastons and training knives --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest