Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 02:48:21 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #45 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Watered Down? (Kendal Coats) 2. Re: mcdojo in the philippines (maurice gatdula) 3. Re: Re: mcdojo in the philippines (Ray) 4. Myths,Mysteries, and Misconceptions about FMA (jorge penafiel) 5. List down or slow (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:08:14 -0800 (PST) From: Kendal Coats To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Watered Down? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Why do you think if students fight in a very sport centered tournament it waters down the art. The path of the TKD McDojo, hasn't watered down TKD. It may have had an effect on what some of the instructors are teaching, or even the number of qualified instructors, but the art is still TKD, and if you look for it you can find it, all of it. Parts of the art have evolved, and all things evolve. I may show my true ignorance here but, was there not a time in the FMA history where it was considered bad form to strike the baston. GM's have developed lots of training methods, sinawali, etc. that are just drills and patterns. Do they have combat application? The movements sure do. A #1 is a #1 is a #1 whether its in a drill, a sparing session, or at the dog brothers gathering. We train these drills to increase repitition, muscle memory, and to create flow right, but none of us would call a sinawalli a combat technique. We're in the box, within the rules, (strike the stick not the hand, follow the pattern). The art evolved. Some even call it MODERN. SO when I see full contact sparring, guess what I see, a big ole' # 1, in almost every match. Did they water down our art? So if I go to a tournament and they have a smaller box, I adapt, I follow the rules of the game. After all I chose to go there. Its part of the training. Even at the DB's Gathering, there are rules. I was taught that we need the structure, the rules, the games to lay a foundation before its a free for all, before we get out of the box. It takes control and dicipline to follow the rules, to be more than a savage fighter. Do the rules lessen my art, absolutely not. My teacher taught me there are many circles surrounding the Master, some exist in many, some in few, and some dont even know the circles exist or what one they reside in. And ultimately you do not reach the inner circles without spending time in the outer ones. So new students go in the outer most, and there are parts of the art they do not see. I put them in a box, and see where they take it. That way I do not need background or homeland security checks on students. The art filters itself. Billy BadArse who wanted to learn knife fighting didnt get what he wants, so he either heads down the road, or his goals evolve. He emptys his cup and then he can be taught. So the student who only attends five classes, does not learn much. Some coordiation drills, some twirlings, some basic self defense. When a student walks out of my class, I hope and pray they have a little more (delf defense) than when they came in. That they are just a little more aware, a little more prepared than before, for at least for a few hours their brains were asked to work in a different box than the rest of the population. It gives me time to know the swine before I cast my pearls. I can still remember my first few weeks of teaching. My god I showed a lot. (hundreds were killed and maimed) Was it for the students benifit, or just for my own ego. I thought I had to impress, to show how good I was, and guess what, I didnt. So my teaching evolved, and my teacher had a good laugh. Frankly I could care less what the TKD guys are doing, or what they are calling Kali this week. It doenst change what I am teaching. I do not let it diminish me in the least. I am not in a competition with them. I am just trying to pass on my teachers art, his system. With the most respect to you and your teachers. Kendal Coats --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:32:05 -0800 (PST) From: maurice gatdula To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: mcdojo in the philippines Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net i think the new "mcdojo" in the philippines is to live up to those stories foreigners think about when they go to the philippines. they are looking for dressing up in moro costumes and army uniform? what size are you. they want "kali"? give it to them. they want training in the mud? train with the pigs and caribou? sure, we got that. and when you're done....here's your certificate, i even going to put you on my website. its bad now, that the small old guy in the province is not respected as a master, because he never bragged to kill people in death matches, he doesnt speak good, or educated, and he doesnt have a website or foreign students. i'm very proud that we dont have mega schools in the philippines, but i am not proud that we 'give them what they came for". this is for money, and fame, forget if the student really knows how to fight or not, and that makes a lot of commercialsim in the philippine martial arts. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: mcdojo in the philippines Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:43:03 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Feb 18, 2008, at 12:32 PM, maurice gatdula wrote: > i think the new "mcdojo" in the philippines is to live up to those > stories foreigners think about when they go to the philippines. they > are looking for dressing up in moro costumes and army uniform? what > size are you. they want "kali"? give it to them. they want training > in the mud? train with the pigs and caribou? sure, we got that. and > when you're done....here's your certificate, i even going to put you > on my website. I understand this is exactly what Tatang did. A few from the US went to the RP to train with him, but they wanted paper in return. He thought "how stupid of them to want paper and not just skill", but for a few pesos extra they were able to get some paper out of him. :) Ray "the paper is extra" Terry EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "jorge penafiel" To: Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:50:05 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Myths,Mysteries, and Misconceptions about FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jay,,,greetings pare !! One thing for sure, when a UP professor like our friend Bot gives some pesos worth of his chimes and see's foremost real little details like the "badger" out of your masterpiece work, it means -it's AWESOME!. Tagalog ang " galing-galing talaga ". Always in awe and a pleasure reading your prolific mind about FMA, same with Bot, James Sy Jr. , GP Baet, and other ED notables. Keep on boggling our minds with your great work guys,,we love it.. Regards some MA macdojos, instructors, students, tournaments, etc, out there .. Agree to disagree, It's the foreboding ever changing TIME, PHILOSOPHIES, and INDIVIDUAL DIFFERENCES. Coupled these with the huge influence of commercialism, legalities, and the advent of sport venues. Yes, we could qualm or critique all we could regards these ensuing things, but the truth is, that it is what's in all of MA world today. True, there are those that still have or maybe not have the warrior blood in us and those that are not meant to be instructors either. Gone if not watered down are the mainstream training regimen and focus of a ancient warrior mentality. People today just see no relevance in learning all the complexity of FMA has to offer. Some FMA tools just don't have the tactical sense or use in today's modern life. As a venue, MA tournaments exists basically to showcase MA as a sport with rules. It's set-up as a version of modern gladiator competition, and so not much can be desired from it if one expects to see mundane things. It's some form of layway to vent out wind, ego, and for most at best a unrealistic show or test for someone skills and abilities. Better than to always compete with fellow mates. For FMA, it could be better improve though with support from all of FMA and be made more universal to all systems. One drawback, the many FMA systems and different mind-sets among many other factors.. Myself, for now I deemed it best satisfying and fun for my students to have the touch and blend of the old MA with the new. Towards the end we all learn, go home sometimes bruised and more importantly we get to go to work the next day. MA is a way of life and not a way to put one from harm's way. My thoughts.... Jorge Penafiel --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:32:34 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] List down or slow Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'll be out of town for a few days starting on Thursday to teach at a seminar. Things should get back to normal around Tuesday. Ray Terry EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest