Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:44:00 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #48 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2500 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Manong Johnny (Terrence David Reyes) 2. Re: Myths,Mysteries, and Misconceptions about FMA (jay de leon) 3. Re: my prediction for the next "mcdojo"... (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: Re: A Tale of Two Tournaments and David and Goliath (Felipe Jocano) 5. Re: Re: Watered Down? (james jr. sy) 6. Re: Re: Watered Down? (james jr. sy) 7. Re: Re: mcdojo in the philippines (james jr. sy) 8. Boxing Training Ring for sale (Ollie Batts) 9. Re: Re: Watered Down? (james jr. sy) 10. Re: Manong Johnny (alan stewart) 11. Re: Re: Arnis field study (Jesse Sandow) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:12:52 -0800 From: "Terrence David Reyes" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Manong Johnny Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guess he changed it. He told me personally two numbers. :) Best Regards, David Reyes- > > Gints... for the first time I TOTALLY agree with you!! GM John Lacoste once > made a comment to the effect of if you learn the First Five you can beat > anyone, any style... --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:32:42 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Myths,Mysteries, and Misconceptions about FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For my part, it is seldom my intention to admonish. I usually write about facts as I know them. personal anecdotes as I have experienced them, and once in while, some biased opinion. We all have our own realities, experiences, biases and opinions. It is indeed a boon to have a forum like this to share experiences, air differences and occasionally agree to disagree. Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com B Katz wrote: Gentlemen, Thank-you all for your input on this topic! I at once feel vindicated and admonished for my views! It is a great help to have access to the thoughts and opinions of practicioners from all over the world. www.eskrimacustoms.com Fine hand-crafted hardwood bastons and training knives _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:03:39 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] my prediction for the next "mcdojo"... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Manong Maurice; It's started already. The ads in martial arts mags... And there's a gym here offering lessons...Come to think of it, expensive too. Bot --- maurice gatdula wrote: > http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/mma_experts/post/Kimbo-takes-the-mantle-from-Tank?urn=mma%2C67120 > > how much you want to bet, the next art to become > the new thing in video, seminars, even schools....is > not going to be any rare martial arts......but > streetfighting with NO martial arts, and NO boxing, > and NO wrestling! they will still sell certificates > (theres already some kung fu guys in NYC who teaches > "52 blocks", but they never been to prison, and they > aint 5 percenters. yes, street fighting from the > "hood". but its going to be bigger than every > before. streetfighting experts from the streets of > buffalo new york or youngtown ohio, you can beat any > UFC fighter with these secrets! crips and blood > streetfighting tactics! learn to stomp somebody ass > into the ground, 3 on 1! > > the thing about the martial artists, is, he never > grew up from 12 years old. he's still searching for > "secret" styles and techniques nobody can beat. he > still belives in the "supersuit" that gives you > superpower (we call this muay thai shorts or bjj > uniforms), straight from the temples of suburbs and > internet websites. the 12 year old kids who use to > buy karate posters and 10 page course from the comic > book, he is teaching, still in "10 easy lesson", > except now its called "intensive no-nonsense > training camp!" look at his resume. the dates of his > "certification" will be exactly 12 months after > important martial arts storms: like: van dam movie > "kickboxer" (muay thai), jason scott lee "dragon" > (JKD/wing chun), jeff speakman "perfect weapons" > (kenpo), bjj/etc (after the UFC, and release of some > bjj video), "ong bak" (ancient muay thai), eskrima, > noo excuse me, kali (after the hunted, and cable TV > specials like fightquest), you get it. but look all > the way back when he was > 13 years old, his first black belt is from a > shopping center karate (or maybe a real school), but > that master is not on his website.... > > the martial artist, is afraid to prove what he > has. that is why he lets his friends promote him. > this is why he says he doesnt like tournaments. he > teachs boxing, but he never been in a boxing gym. we > have guys who watch zulu stick fighting on pbs, and > now, they teach it! i wonder how long they studied > before the zulus "certified" them. you know, even > after bravehard, and 300, and troy, we have guys who > abandon there karate, fma, and other asian style to > teach "gladiator style fighting/wma". yeah, okay. > one guy came to my place who says he knows a roman > stickfighting. what he showed to me looks like > kendo. well, maybe the samurai stole it from the > romans. > > this is why many people do not take the martial > arts seriously, because we have so many clowns who > study an art 10 years, and he is not courageous > enough to stand by his learning, and defend what he > learned. we dont take our own training serious, this > is why we are forever trying to learn something else > that makes us "confident". why is this? because our > teachers fail us when they "certify" us and we are > not the best he can produce. i know this is true, > and so does the seminar guys who targets not the > beginning student, but TEACHERS and EXPERTS. you can > make a lot of money from another man insecurity. the > truth is, most black belters, did not work hard to > get it, and he does not have the confidence that he > can really back up his certificate, and even there > teachers know this is true, but everyone keeps doing > it.... > > so anyway, beginning of this week, i am going to > start my "combat streetfighting classes" at my > school. this is not martial arts base, but only the > most effective fight skills proven by a selected few > bangers and thugs know the secrets. you can learn > them all in one day, and i guarantee that you can > beat any mma guy on the "big yard"...the streets! > lol > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:59:31 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: A Tale of Two Tournaments and David and Goliath To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Badger; He ain't the only one. I run into his clones every now and then over here :-) Bot --- Young Forest wrote: > I've got a student, Filipino, who was sort of > dumbfounded that there was such > a thing as Filipino martial arts. He got his TKD > black belt in the PI, but > somehow in his martial studies, managed to > completely avoid the dudes with the > sticks. > > Badger Jones > Siling Labuyo Arnis > www.youngforest.ca > > _________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:12:52 -0800 (PST) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Watered Down? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Agree on that Master Jay. The flipping falls are the norm in Aikido but when jointlocks such as kote gaeshi (wrist reversal) are applied against somebody who doesn't know how t fall in real life, he'll just fall in a less dramatic way, albeit still with the same desired degree of control after the fall. James Sy Jr. jay de leon wrote: "Beautiful movements have taken over much of martial arts training, and much of eskrima is no exception." Certain masters/oldtimers categorize their arnis training or teaching into two types: "pang-entablado" and "pamatay." "Pang-entablado" literally means "for the stage." This is for show, demos, possibly competition or maybe even just self-expression. This is where the beautiful movements come in--fancy twirling, complicated sinawali patterns, aerial moves, choreographed self-defense sequences, etc. 'Pamatay" literally means "for killing." This is the combative aspect of eskrima. I saw my guro Godofredo Fajardo do a double-stick self-defense demo wherein his uke went flying several times into a front somersault. (The uke was landing on soft grass in a park.) Can he do this in actual combat? Maybe. But there is no doubt in my mind he can easily skewer anybody in a much more simple and less spectacular (less beautiful?) way. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:03:11 -0800 (PST) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Watered Down? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Former Extreme Fighting champion, UFC champion, and WKA World Kickboxing champion Maurice Smith was a brown belt in TKD. Joe son, who competed in UFC 3 was into TKD. Cal Worsham (sp?), who competed in the earliest UFCs was a TKD guy. James Ruel Apostol wrote: UFC is about mixing of some martial arts, believe it or not, some of the guys there do have TKD background. I don't remember the names, but one of them that I remember is Stephan Bonnar. Juras is an MMA fighter in Poland and his base art is also TKD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLabBQaWM88 But, I myself, is also disappointed with the direction that TKD went nowadays. Its true that the concentration of most TKD dojangs now is its sport aspect. The combative side of it is almost gone. But, there are still others who still practice traditional combat TKD. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:43:16 -0800 (PST) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: mcdojo in the philippines To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The economic equation being dictated by demand and supply. Indeed a sad reality. maurice gatdula wrote: i think the new "mcdojo" in the philippines is to live up to those stories foreigners think about when they go to the philippines. they are looking for dressing up in moro costumes and army uniform? what size are you. they want "kali"? give it to them. they want training in the mud? train with the pigs and caribou? sure, we got that. and when you're done....here's your certificate, i even going to put you on my website. its bad now, that the small old guy in the province is not respected as a master, because he never bragged to kill people in death matches, he doesnt speak good, or educated, and he doesnt have a website or foreign students. i'm very proud that we dont have mega schools in the philippines, but i am not proud that we 'give them what they came for". this is for money, and fame, forget if the student really knows how to fight or not, and that makes a lot of commercialsim in the philippine martial arts. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:13:25 +0000 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Boxing Training Ring for sale Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net We have an 18' low-level Boxing ring for sale. It's slightly less than two years old and has only been used on five occasions for Savate (kickboxing) competitions. (It takes too long to put up and take down for regular class training sessions.) It can also be erected at 16', if space is an issue. Sadly, the cupboard where we currently store it in (alongside the Gym we use it in) is now required by the school for storing their own stuff in. So they have asked us to move it. With nowhere else to keep it, we are forced to put it up for sale. It cost us £2,650 in March 2006, so we'd like to get as close to £2,000 as we can for it. Any buyer would need to collect, I suppose, but it fits into a Tranny Van, as that's what it was delivered in. We're based in Cambridge (UK). Ollie Batts Director & Senior Instructor Cambridge Academy of Martial Arts® http://www.cama.org.uk Tel: 01223 565 020 (mobile: 07709 81 44 22) --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:07:09 -0800 (PST) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Watered Down? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net TKD was historically derived from Shotokan and in its earliest form was predominantly hand-based. The emphasis on the legs was highlighted when Koreans started to make the art more Korean. James Tyler Murphy wrote: While in Korea I trained with a few true TKD stylists and it was much different than what i had done here in the states. If however you could gte inside there range they really didn't have anything against takedowns or good boxing skill. If one of those bombs they called feet hit you howveer they usually put you down by themselves. Tyler --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:36:52 -0800 (PST) From: alan stewart Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Manong Johnny To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I read in Dan Inosanto's Filipino Martial Arts book that GM Lacoste said it was the first two strikes of his system that were the most important. All the rest are just different versions of those strikes. This question is to David Reyes - Do you still do Lacoste's system? I've only heard about Inosanto, Bustillo, and Jerry Poteet ( I think...) training and teaching the Lacoste system. Alan in Southold, NY. Terrence David Reyes wrote: Guess he changed it. He told me personally two numbers. :) Best Regards, David Reyes- > > Gints... for the first time I TOTALLY agree with you!! GM John Lacoste once > made a comment to the effect of if you learn the First Five you can beat > anyone, any style... _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net test'; "> --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:39:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse Sandow Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Arnis field study To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings All, I'm an Anthropology student @ Gavilan Community College and would like to do my field in our ancient Martial Arts "Arnis". I will be visiting Metro Manila (Las Pinas) March 21st - April 6, 2008. I would like to interview/ observe a session or two. Please consider my request for information, Dojo, and/ contact person.Salamat Po in advance. JesS "James jr. sy" wrote: Agree on that Master Jay. The flipping falls are the norm in Aikido but when jointlocks such as kote gaeshi (wrist reversal) are applied against somebody who doesn't know how t fall in real life, he'll just fall in a less dramatic way, albeit still with the same desired degree of control after the fall. James Sy Jr. jay de leon wrote: "Beautiful movements have taken over much of martial arts training, and much of eskrima is no exception." Certain masters/oldtimers categorize their arnis training or teaching into two types: "pang-entablado" and "pamatay." "Pang-entablado" literally means "for the stage." This is for show, demos, possibly competition or maybe even just self-expression. This is where the beautiful movements come in--fancy twirling, complicated sinawali patterns, aerial moves, choreographed self-defense sequences, etc. 'Pamatay" literally means "for killing." This is the combative aspect of eskrima. I saw my guro Godofredo Fajardo do a double-stick self-defense demo wherein his uke went flying several times into a front somersault. (The uke was landing on soft grass in a park.) Can he do this in actual combat? Maybe. But there is no doubt in my mind he can easily skewer anybody in a much more simple and less spectacular (less beautiful?) way. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Work for LOVE & PEACE --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest