Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 02:48:22 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #53 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2500 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. frederico's post (maurice gatdula) 2. Re: Re: Arnis field study (Felipe Jocano) 3. Arnis Field Study - Visayan FMA (james jr. sy) 4. Re: Filipino language/s (james jr. sy) 5. Pretenders and McDojos (Federico Malibago) 6. Re: Maurice's post (B Katz) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:38:22 -0800 (PST) From: maurice gatdula To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] frederico's post Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net that was a very good post, by the way. i think what makes our FMA water down, is not the fat that it is taught in a school, or money is paid for the classes, or that we fight in tournaments. i dont know about most of the filipinos on this group, but tournaments, is a very FILIPINO thing. rules? oh come on, everyone has rules, even in "no rules fighting". if there really is no rules, then i will bring my knife to the next one. people who dont like tournaments, usually is scared of fighting in them, and you know he aint fighting in the street. but when many of us complain "mc dojo" we are talking about the quickness that some people get to be considered an expert, and how easy it is to be considered "expert". we have people who complain that there is no teacher in his town, so he must go to video and seminar to learn the art. but what if you want to become a lawyer and there is no law school in your city? how bout if you want to become a doctor? you travel. i know i am not getting my divorce by some guy who is too lazy or too not committed to travel to learn his law. and yet, some of us, trust our lives in the hands of a teacher who did not thing is important enough to travel to learn from a qualified master. how many of us, have slept of the floor of an arnis master to learn his style, or catch a bus to learn a new style, or save his money to travel to study under a great master. in this country, where money can be made everywhere, people dont want to spend $200 a month to learn from a qualified master, but he will spend $75 for two hours of learning in a seminar, or $200 to learn from a video tape. mc dojo. last year, when i had a conversation with a teacher, who is a member of this forum, who told me, the "black belt" is the beginning. really? since when? when you are a black belt, you are an expert. supposed. but it is not for a beginner of the art to wear, which is the attitude, and this is why we have 7 years old 1st degree, 14 years old 4th degree, and lost interest by age 21. what makes our FMA a mc dojo? too many beginners with no skill who now have rank to teach. who will take FMA serious with black belters who cannot fight? we have too much of that. then the last part, is we have liars in the FMA. they lie about history, they lie about who they learn from, they make up words and styles and give fake histories, even created new things in our culture. and its not about money all the time, lost of time, its about a small butok, who tries to act like a BIG butok. they use stories, and tough talk, and fancy names, youtube demos, and big words to describe what they do. they teach cops, military, wear army uniform, go to isreal, take hundreds of foreign students, make nice websites, put out videos with rock music and rap, etc. but people forget the most important thing, can you fight? and this is filipino....can you fight. screw the drills, and fancy disarmings, forget the neat tricks and cool locks and throws. i dont care who you train with, or who certify you, or if you use to shine bruce lee's shoes. can you fight. i always say, its the one who can't fight, who talks politics, rank and gossips. he must distract you so you dont notice, that he cant fight. mc dojo, is the one who is so far from tradition, he becomes like mc donalds of martial arts. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:34:25 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Arnis field study To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Jesse, One of my fellow LSAI teachers is from the area. I will look for his website address and local cell number. Being an anthropology professor, I am happy that you are interested in Filipino martial arts for your research work. If you need help in this aspect, contact me and I'll see what I can do. Best, Bot --- Jesse Sandow wrote: > Greetings All, > > I'm an Anthropology student @ Gavilan Community > College and would like to do my field in our ancient > Martial Arts "Arnis". I will be visiting Metro > Manila (Las Pinas) March 21st - April 6, 2008. I > would like to interview/ observe a session or two. > Please consider my request for information, Dojo, > and/ contact person.Salamat Po in advance. > > JesS > > "James jr. sy" wrote: > Agree on that Master Jay. > > The flipping falls are the norm in Aikido but when > jointlocks such as kote gaeshi (wrist reversal) are > applied against somebody who doesn't know how t fall > in real life, he'll just fall in a less dramatic > way, albeit still with the same desired degree of > control after the fall. > > James Sy Jr. > > > jay de leon wrote: > "Beautiful movements have taken over much of martial > arts training, > and much of eskrima is no exception." > > Certain masters/oldtimers categorize their arnis > training or teaching > into two types: "pang-entablado" and "pamatay." > > "Pang-entablado" literally means "for the stage." > This is for show, > demos, possibly competition or maybe even just > self-expression. > This is where the beautiful movements come in--fancy > twirling, > complicated sinawali patterns, aerial moves, > choreographed > self-defense sequences, etc. > > 'Pamatay" literally means "for killing." This is the > combative aspect > of eskrima. > > I saw my guro Godofredo Fajardo do a double-stick > self-defense > demo wherein his uke went flying several times into > a front > somersault. (The uke was landing on soft grass in a > park.) > > Can he do this in actual combat? Maybe. But there is > no doubt in > my mind he can easily skewer anybody in a much more > simple and > less spectacular (less beautiful?) way. > > Jay de Leon > www.filipinofightingartsintl.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > > > Work for LOVE & PEACE > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 03:53:23 -0800 (PST) From: "james jr. sy" To: Eskrima Digest Subject: [Eskrima] Arnis Field Study - Visayan FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Jess, Have to agree with Bro Bo there. Consider these facts: Have a quick survey of the FMA community. You'll notice that Visayan styles figure prominently and most of the hybrid/eclectic styles were derived from them. Consider these 80 styles/systems which are visayan in origin: Abaniko Tres Puntas-Sangga Patama Alakdan Escrima Arjuka Bahad Zubu Bais Tres Manos Balintawak - Original Style Balintawak - Atillo Style Balintawak - Balintawok Balintawak - Nicklestick Style Balintawak - Tabimina Style Balintawak - Teovel Style Balintawak - Tres Personas Combate Balintawak - Villasin Style Baraw Sugbu BDU System Biņas Dynamic Arnis Black Eagle Eskrima Bohol Method Cabales Serrada Escrima Cinco Generales Comki De Campo 1-2-3 Orioginal Decuerdas Defensor Method Dekiti Tirsia Doce Generales Doce Pares - Original Style Doce Pares - Babao Arnis Doce Pares - Cagadas Style Doce Pares - Escribo Doce Pares - Eskrido Doce Pares - Multi Style System Doce Pares - San Miguel Escrima Doce Pares - Saavedra Style Doce Pares - Vicar Style Dugukan System Dumog Escrima de Caqmpo JDC-IO Gokosha Guarra Style Modern Arnis Hinigaran Arnis de Mano Inosanto Kali KaliSilat Kalis Ilustrisimo Karaan Tapado Kombatan Kruzada Lacoste Eskrima Lameco Lapu-Lapu Viņas Arnis Lapunti Arnis de Abanico Lema Scientific Kali Arnis System Lightning Scientific Arnis Moro-Moro Orabes Heneral Oido de Caburata - Aguilar Style Oido de Caburata - Gubaton Style Original Filipino Tapado Palakabanate Pangamot Pecate Arnis Pekiti Tirsia Philippine Dynamic Arnis - Galvarole Style Philippine Dynamic Arnis - Prologo Style Philippine Modern Arnis Presas Style Modern Arnis Pronus-Supinus Cadena De Mano System Ricarte Robas Otso Tiros Baston Arnis System Sarimanok Tanique Arnis Tapondo Tat Kon Tou Tendencia Arnis Trese Grabes Piga-Piga System Uno Blanco Arnis Vasquez Modified Tapado Villabrille Kali Warriors Escrima Yaming Yasay Sable There are more but they just escape my mind at the moment. If we were to believe the tale about the 10 Bornean Datus and them bringing their fighting arts to the islands, then we can assume that there will be a high concentration of said arts in the areas where they populated. Of course, this does not imply that the Luzon and Mindanao regions do not have a rich tradition of FMA. Actually they do. Just that the visayans are more known for their FMA. Hope this helps. James U. Sy Jr. Conceptual Martial Arts Society (CMAS), Inc. Message: 11 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:39:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse Sandow Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Arnis field study To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings All, I'm an Anthropology student @ Gavilan Community College and would like to do my field in our ancient Martial Arts "Arnis". I will be visiting Metro Manila (Las Pinas) March 21st - April 6, 2008. I would like to interview/ observe a session or two. Please consider my request for information, Dojo, and/ contact person.Salamat Po in advance. JesS --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 04:39:08 -0800 (PST) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Filipino language/s To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Rez, Master Jay just said it best. What he just posted were the rules for repeating Tagalog words. Rule no. 1 also applies to Hiligaynon (Ilonggo) and is found in examples like: Law-ay law-ay (very ugly) Sakit sakit (very paiful) Duha-duha (lit. two-two, second thoughts) Pacute-cute (attempt at looking cute) James U. Sy Jr. 2@msfencing.org wrote: I am happy to be back after a long absence which involved illness, computer crash, and a change of e-mail address. I have a question about the repetition of words in the Filipino language/s, such as the phrase, "Dulo-Dulo." Does this mean two Dulos or a fight in which Dulo vs. Dulo, or something else? Thanks. Blessings, Rez Johnson Headmaster: Mississippi Academy of Arms Teaching Fencing in Central Mississippi since 1980 --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:18:44 -0500 (EST) From: Federico Malibago To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Pretenders and McDojos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I guess I dont see the connection between public school is automatically a McDojo vs backyard/garage training is not. I personally think that in either scenario the chance for low quality is equally high. Ive seen plenty of guys who do the whole informal/backyard/invitation only training, who once you show up, turn out to have little to no training and have little to no skill. To do a quality control visit to one of these guys would be even harder than the public school, at least in my mind, because you would have to first find him (which you wouldnt be able to do since he is doing his best to hide). Ive seen a few guys purposely do the whole private/invitation only thing to purposefully evade such quality checks, because they knew that if they started to publicly teach, those in the area who caught wind of it would put a stop to their shennanigans. However, in a public school, at least you have an open place that states, we do this here regularly, so those who wish to check you out can easily stop by and find you. Furthermore, a public school probably already has liability insurance, legal waivers, etc...dealing with the inherent legal dangers of doing a physical art, whereas in private if something happens it becomes an issue of your word versus his. Then again, like the old saying goes, its not the martial art its the martial artist. I would contend its not the school or tournament that makes a McDojo or waters down the art, but rather the instructors, tournament organizers, and students who either ensure or make a mockery of quality. Anyways, I got to admit, one of the biggest things Ive liked about training in a school open to the public, are all the yahoos who come in, to test your mettle. Some of the greatest lessons I have learned in my breif dalience in FMA, has come from the guys with no training, entering class with the sole intent of beating up on some delusional martial artist. Somedays you eat the bear but somdeays it eats you. However, you never know until you try. With all this talk of FMA, quality control. If youre in the Minneapolis, MN area shoot me a line if you want to come out to play. I personally do not claim to be anyone but a mediocre student trying to do his best in learning, preserving, and paying respect to this art. However, at least for myself its always fun to feel/play with a different energy, a different viewpoint. Gumagalang Federico Malibago ps. Yes I know Sifu Faye is here, I already belong to a school. Not interested in changing schools, just interested in playing. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:24:10 -0800 (PST) From: B Katz Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Maurice's post To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This touches on a little of my concerns. The TKD dojo here in town was one of those that attended a 2 day seminar and added "stick fighting" to his curriculum. I keep joking that I'm going to walk in there some evening and throw a stick at his feet. My understanding of the history of our collective Art is that the friendly test of skills was the proving ground for the beginners and the challenge (death) match was the proof of the master. This seems to me to be an intensely personal type of arrangement. Two men, maybe a total of four sticks, winner take all. I'm good with that. I have studied Isshin Ryu karate in a dojo where there were no colored belts. Rank was indicated by the bloodstains and general rattiness of each players obi. We trained on a tile floor. Yes, the throws were pretty freakin' painful! Our eskrima club promotes in much the same fashion. We are small enough to know who is senior and are respectful accordingly. I just keep hearing GM Antonio Illustrisimo's comment to GM Antonio Diego about how his art kept him alive and why would he tell everyone how it was done. Maybe times have changed to the point that some folks are willing to disseminate the Art to the world, but I, for one, enjoy the fact that when I go to work my techniques are relatively unknown. I might be a bit "hard-core" but I do my solo training with a sharp blade. I can only hope that those out there who teach the FMA's are teaching the history of the Filippine people, the history of the FMA's, and the intent of our Art. It is my contention that the FMA's are NOT a hobby or a sport. It is a way of life. I truly believe in the Mandirigma mindset. Warriors first and foremost. The FMA's have spawned too many heros throughout history to forget the Why in the process of teaching the How. www.eskrimacustoms.com Fine hand-crafted hardwood bastons and training knives --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest