Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 02:48:22 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #78 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2500 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Qualities of a Masters (GatPuno@aol.com) 2. Re: the subject of "masters" (Felipe Jocano) 3. Re: the subject of "masters" (Kim Satterfield) 4. Re: the subject of "masters" (Jonathan Kessler) 5. Who is a true Master? (Talibung Antike) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:22:08 EDT To: GatPuno@aol.com, eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Qualities of a Masters Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Message: 4 From: <2@msfencing.org> To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Thank's my though in FMA Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:25:18 -0600 Organization: 2@msfencing.org Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I know > a lot of Masters in FMA specially here in US, that not really a Masters, > to us > we can call them "Master Kuno" (wanna be). This brings up a good question. What are the characteristic qualities, attributes and abilities of a real "Master" of a martial art, such as Eskrima? Grace and Peace, Rez > > Maestro Rez, Qualities of a Masters is one should not be affraid to face anyone in battle, friendly fights, or real. One master should knows how to diliver their strikes accurately, with a precise timing and strong stances offensively or defensively. A Master should also recognized defeat, and respect the opponent, at all times. We are all beginner once, and we love to be a Masters someday, and this quality should not forget by anyone.  A masters should know their basic basic by heart, open or closed eyes. If someone is practiced drill, him'her should can performed them, with or without opponent. A master make a wise decision in duel (if he has kill or to keep the life and to preservation).. this is few quality of the real Masters. Now a days, a 10 years old wearing Blackbelt and called themselves "masters" in their young age, they should not be be called "master" since they are not matured enough to make a decision that the only adult only understands.  Hope it help, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International > > Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************** Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00 030000000001) --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 05:54:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] the subject of "masters" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Kim, Reading this and the other posts on the topic so far makes me appreciate the rules of the Masters of Defense of 17th-18th century England (did I get the dates right? Somebody correct me). If I remember reading correctly in Christoph Amberger's Secret History of the Sword, it took 14 years of constant supervised training before one was granted the right to teach "ye Noble Art of Defence" on one's own and be accorded the rank of Master. Which, judging from the description was pretty comprehensive. It would probably take that long to be at the level which Gat Puno Abon describes, both in terms of technique and maturity. My own view of a master is: 1. If someone claims he/she's a master, chances are...not, certificates and titles notwithstanding. I've met people introduced to me as master this-and-that. When I saw them move... Then this guy is introduced as so-and-so, no titles or anything. And when he moves, well, here's the real deal. 2. The real masters don't stand on their papers, their words and actions say it all. One of the best examples I've met from within our ranks in LSAI is a man who embodies both the best in skill and depth of maturity that is hard to find in someone else. He was one of GM Lema's top students. In terms of skill, we met up with him after GM Lema's funeral and he crossed sticks with our group. Now in Pilipino we say "Pinilahan siya," meaning that a group literally lined up on a single person. Its a metaphor for an unfair match by any means. In this case, "Pinilahan niya kami," meaning he lined up on us. Which is to say we were all dead meat in his hands. That's the skill part. In terms of humility and maturity, he seemed to lack the distilled machismo found in many younger eskrimadors. You wouldn't know he knew anything until you had the chance to cross sticks with him. Then... He had the humility many of us talk about and few seem to embody yours truly among them. Other masters I know of, both living and passed on, have embodied this characteristic. They had devastating skill balanced with bravery and yet tempered with humility. None of them called themselves master, all of them called themselves students. 3. If a master creates masterpieces, take into account at what stage the master is in his/her work. I know of masters who are truly masters but whose students are still far from achieving the desired maturity that reflects well on their teacher. Their teacher has quite a task ahead in shaping the student's character. I have been privileged to train under several true masters and I sometimes wonder if, when regarding me, they nodded with satisfaction at a job well done or else (which is more likely) they shook their heads, sighed and thought about how much more work they had to do on me. Or about how much they had to undo. Bot --- Kim Satterfield wrote: > Hi all, > > To paraphrase something I heard a while ago, but > still rings true, a "master" creates "masterpieces." > Anyone can be physically adept, but to truly call > someone a master, they should be able to pass on > their art to others in such a way that their lineage > remains strong. Their students should be physically > skilled, and have a depth of understanding of the > art that they in turn can pass it on, and so on, and > so on, without the art becoming diluted. > > Kim Satterfield > > > > This brings up a good question. What are the > characteristic qualities, > attributes and abilities of a real "Master" of a > martial art, such as > Eskrima? > > Grace and Peace, > Rez > > > -- __--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > Old digest issues @ > ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima > > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, > MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com > Standard disclaimers apply. > Remember September 11. > > End of Eskrima Digest > > > > In the words of the late, great John Belushi, "Wise > Up" > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 04:12:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Kim Satterfield To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: the subject of "masters" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, Rez, you are most welcome, sir, but I can't take credit for the idea of a master creating "masterpieces". I read it somewhere years ago, and if my memory serves me, it was in an article written by martial artist and author David Lowry, a frequent contributor to Black Belt magazine. It was such a succinct yet eloquent statement that I never forgot it, and paraphrase it often. A real "master" has such a depth of understanding of their art that they are able to pass it on to others in a way that causes the lineage to remain strong, and the art to not be diluted with each succeeding generation. The art may evolve, as any living entity (or art) will naturally do, but the original concepts and ideals of the master remain, as they are an essential part of the art. Kim Satterfield Message: 2 From: <2@msfencing.org> To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] the subject of "masters" Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:33:24 -0600 Organization: 2@msfencing.org Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thank you so much for that reply, Kim. The phrase "a master creates masterpieces" is one of those nuggets of truth I relish finding. If the students are the instructor's canvases then they are the true representation of the instructor's ability and it follows that true Master level instructors will produce masterpieces out of his students. Thank you again for sharing that thought. Grace and Peace, Rez > To paraphrase something I heard a while ago, but still rings true, a > "master" creates "masterpieces." Anyone can be physically adept, but to > truly call someone a master, they should be able to pass on their art to > others in such a way that their lineage remains strong. Their students > should be physically skilled, and have a depth of understanding of the art > that they in turn can pass it on, and so on, and so on, without the art > becoming diluted. > > Kim Satterfield In the words of the late, great John Belushi, "Wise Up" --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 10:03:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Kessler Subject: Re: [Eskrima] the subject of "masters" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net George Silver, one of those Masters of Defence from the 16th century, propses the following as a fair test (England was being swarmed with foreign fencers claiming "mastery" much as in the US a few years back there was a sort of unquestioning acceptance of anything claiming to be an esoteric Asian fighting art...) I think what he proposes is quite fair and sensible... "And this is the trial: They shall play with such weapons as they profess to teach withal(4), three bouts apiece with three of the best English masters of defence & three bouts apiece with three unskillful valiant men, and three bouts apiece with three resolute men half drunk. Then if they can defend themselves against these masters of defence, and hurt, and go free from the rest, then are they be honored, cherished, and allowed for perfect good teachers, and what countrymen soever they be. But if any of these they take fail, then they are imperfect in their profession, their fight is false, & they are false teachers, deceivers and murderers, and to be punished accordingly, yet no worse punishment unto them I wish, than such as in their trial they shall find." By the way the whole manuscript ("Paradoxes of Defence") is a great read. JK Felipe Jocano wrote: Hi Kim, Reading this and the other posts on the topic so far makes me appreciate the rules of the Masters of Defense of 17th-18th century England (did I get the dates right? Somebody correct me). If I remember reading correctly in Christoph Amberger's Secret History of the Sword, it took 14 years of constant supervised training before one was granted the right to teach "ye Noble Art of Defence" on one's own and be accorded the rank of Master. Which, judging from the description was pretty comprehensive. It would probably take that long to be at the level which Gat Puno Abon describes, both in terms of technique and maturity. My own view of a master is: 1. If someone claims he/she's a master, chances are...not, certificates and titles notwithstanding. I've met people introduced to me as master this-and-that. When I saw them move... Then this guy is introduced as so-and-so, no titles or anything. And when he moves, well, here's the real deal. 2. The real masters don't stand on their papers, their words and actions say it all. One of the best examples I've met from within our ranks in LSAI is a man who embodies both the best in skill and depth of maturity that is hard to find in someone else. He was one of GM Lema's top students. In terms of skill, we met up with him after GM Lema's funeral and he crossed sticks with our group. Now in Pilipino we say "Pinilahan siya," meaning that a group literally lined up on a single person. Its a metaphor for an unfair match by any means. In this case, "Pinilahan niya kami," meaning he lined up on us. Which is to say we were all dead meat in his hands. That's the skill part. In terms of humility and maturity, he seemed to lack the distilled machismo found in many younger eskrimadors. You wouldn't know he knew anything until you had the chance to cross sticks with him. Then... He had the humility many of us talk about and few seem to embody yours truly among them. Other masters I know of, both living and passed on, have embodied this characteristic. They had devastating skill balanced with bravery and yet tempered with humility. None of them called themselves master, all of them called themselves students. 3. If a master creates masterpieces, take into account at what stage the master is in his/her work. I know of masters who are truly masters but whose students are still far from achieving the desired maturity that reflects well on their teacher. Their teacher has quite a task ahead in shaping the student's character. I have been privileged to train under several true masters and I sometimes wonder if, when regarding me, they nodded with satisfaction at a job well done or else (which is more likely) they shook their heads, sighed and thought about how much more work they had to do on me. Or about how much they had to undo. Bot --- Kim Satterfield wrote: > Hi all, > > To paraphrase something I heard a while ago, but > still rings true, a "master" creates "masterpieces." > Anyone can be physically adept, but to truly call > someone a master, they should be able to pass on > their art to others in such a way that their lineage > remains strong. Their students should be physically > skilled, and have a depth of understanding of the > art that they in turn can pass it on, and so on, and > so on, without the art becoming diluted. > > Kim Satterfield > > > > This brings up a good question. What are the > characteristic qualities, > attributes and abilities of a real "Master" of a > martial art, such as > Eskrima? > > Grace and Peace, > Rez > > > -- __--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > Old digest issues @ > ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima > > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, > MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com > Standard disclaimers apply. > Remember September 11. > > End of Eskrima Digest > > > > In the words of the late, great John Belushi, "Wise > Up" > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:03:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Talibung Antike To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Who is a true Master? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Who is a true Master? By definition, a Master is a person in power, having a high rank,authority and control over somebody or subjects under his/her rule, mayit be may be due to a very high degree of expertise in his field ofspecialization, consummate skill and power that commands respect andadmiration of his/her peers. A Master may be somebody so influential and powerful that subjects his followers a surrender of their to his control. By definition, it is no wonder why lots of people now a days gives somuch fuss about being called or accorded a rank of a Master orGrand Master. We can glean from the definition that being a Master is relative. Relative in the sense of criteria and point of reference as a basis of comparison. Hence, it is not simply something that a paper or a certificate can attest for people to see and to feed your ego. You may be a Master only in a certain field of specialization or in a certain system under certain rules, but you can be a novice in another area, subject or under a different criteria. Why? Nobody, has the monopoly of skill, the knowledge, wisdom, strength and power. You may be the best, undefeated, most decorated, the greatest, with all the most and ....EST in the past or today. But as history told us, in all probability.. tomorrow, in the coming months, next year, or in the next decades... eventually, somewhere, sometime..somehow.. somebody else will take away that crown of glory from you and you will end up defeated. (In Filipino street lingo, we say it: "isang bala ka lang!" you're only good for one bullet) Who is a true Master then? A true Master is somebody who is able to transcend enough in truly knowing himself, that he is able to conquer himself, conquer his pride and arrogance, conquer his insecurities, conquer his need of attention, need of adoration and praise, conquer his pains and fears, even fear of sickness, starvation and inevitable death. A true Master is somebody who has come to the realization that only GOD has the monopoly of the greatest skill, power, knowledge and wisdom. A true Master is somebody who realized that everything he has is from GOD and he has nothing to boast about himself. A true Master is somebody who has come to the realization that life is fleeting, we are just on a temporary assignment. A true Master is somebody who has come to a realization that in this world of uncertainty, ESKRIMA is not to rule, to maim, to hurt nor to kill but to help build bridges of peace, harmony, joy and friendships, not walls of isolation and misery. Traditional Filipino ESKRIMA is grounded on the law of man's survival against violence, injustice and oppression . But the relevance of true "ESKRIMA" in our present time is to skirmish against man's greatest enemy which is SELF, and that means to bring healing, restoration of human dignity and health as well as prolongation of Quality LIFE. It is of greater challenge now in our generation than our great forebears have faced in the past because it is easier now to kill than to HEAL. Let that be our common and ultimate quest mga ESKRIMADORES... to be a TRUE MASTER! May GOD Bless us all in that quest... :-) "Talibung Antike" ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest