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From eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Mon Mar 24 19:49:10 2008 Return-Path: Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (tarsus.bollow.ch [82.195.230.222]) by plus11.host4u.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id m2P0nAQ29547 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:49:10 -0500 Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tarsus.bollow.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EBE3B28824; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:49:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:48:22 +0100 Message-ID: <20080325014822.16674.13194.Mailman@tarsus.bollow.ch> From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #81 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Qualities of a Master (Ray) 2. Re: Thank's my though in FMA (jay de leon) 3. Re: Qualities of a Master (jay de leon) 4. RE: A Master/and who is the Masters (2@msfencing.org) 5. Re: Qualities of a Master (Ray) 6. RE: A Complete Master (2@msfencing.org) 7. Re: A Master/and who is the Masters (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Qualities of a Master Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:05:52 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Mar 23, 2008, at 10:38 PM, jay de leon wrote: > "...invented the term Grandmaster for...." > > I assume you mean, he was the first to use the title Grandmaster in a > martial arts context, in this case Kuk Sool Won.. > > The term grandmaster has been around for quite a few centuries by > this > time. It has been used by the Knights Templars and many other knight > organizations, the Masons, the international chess federation and > many > others. Yes. A Freemason and Sir Knight here... :) Ray Terry EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:04:04 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Thank's my though in FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This email is addressed to my kapatid (brothers) who are Filipinos in the Phil. and the USA, but the topic is general, for all FMA practitioners. I am simply throwing out food for thought (no charge). So it should be as welcome as unsolicited advice. (1) As a result of the efforts, charisma and vision of some FMA masters, FMA has now spread in the US (or fill in the blank with another foreign country). Eventually, as Prof. Bot Jocano pointed out, and I have now immortalized him by quoting him in several articles now, FMA will become "indigenized," absorbed into the host culture, just like the other martial arts before it. So someday FMA dojos will be a fixture in strip malls and downtown USA, just like karate and kung-fu. We Filipino guros of course hope that these schools will still be representative of the art as we knew and taught it. But at some point, we have to let go--just like children. If you have children, you know what I am talking about. You hope that the Kim Satterfields, Pat O'Malleys etc. will ably and faithfully carry on the Filipino tradition. (2) i know that we are all concerned with the art being watered down or diluted. Just a couple of thoughts on this. You have to distinguish between the art evolving from being diluted. For example, Remy Presas and others greatly innovated FMA by hitting sticks instead of hands or arms. And don't think this hitting business is a myth. My guro Godofredo Fajardo tells of going home as a teen-ager with welts the size of "duhat" or berries on his arms and hands from being hit by his guro. And he is not an old guy. Did this innovation "dilute" or "evolve" the art? As old as I am, I never trained in a school where the guro hit my hands or my arms instead of my sticks during training. Is my FMA diluted then? I say not to worry. Just like the Japanese martial arts, we know what the dojos here look like. But from watching Discovery channel, we know that there are still real deal masters somewhere in Okinawa or Japan who are living replicas of Mas Oyama or Musashi with sledge-hammer reverse punches or can vivisect you with a katana in the blink of an eye. For FMA, many years from now, you might have to go to the mountains of Antique or Laguna to find a real deal FMA "master" but they will be around. There will always be hard-core keepers of the flame. And not to worry, James Sy and GP Abon will know where to find them. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com "james jr. sy" wrote: Manong abon Magandang araw po sa inyo. The eslrimadors I've met in Cebu gave me a very warm welcome. My only regret is there was not enough time. I agree with the points you raised GP Abon. Our FMA is in a sad state just like the Japanese Martial Arts with all the Soke Dockey spread all over the US. It's a buyer's market nowadays; the demand overshadows the supply. I would agree with Prof. Bot also that a true measure of a master is in how he moves and brings himself. But in the end, the term master is a very subjective honorific, as dictated by culture, history, etc. Gumagalang, James U. Sy Jr. GatPuno@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/19/08 8:49:05 PM, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 03:44:17 -0700 (PDT) > From: "james jr. sy" > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] GM Blancia? Records?? > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Hi Manong Abon, > > In my travels to Iloilo I've come across the name of GM Angel L. Blancia. > He indeed has a reputation of being a good fighter, albeit the average > person wouldn't necessarily know that he existed. GM Blancia was like the usual > Arnisador, not much is written about him and whatever details in existence > right now are based on personal dealings with him by his students. No books, > magazines, or other media sources, at least up to this point. > > Panay is a large chunk of island, Iloilo being the capital. Antique is > one of the provinces situated in the Panay Island while Tibiao is a place in > Antique. > > I was introduced to one of GM Blancia's students way back about 2 years > ago. I'm impressed with what little that was shown to me. Traditional. > Tight. Short. Power. > > James U. Sy Jr. > Conceptual Martial Arts Society (CMAS), Inc. > > > James, Thank you from your note. I am serious when I said I would really like to learn from someone like them. I am planning to visit Cebu. Ilo-Ilo, HInigaran, I would like to explore Visayan island and meet as many good Eskrimadores as I can possibly meet. Off-course would love to exchange "blow" to some of them too, just to feel the warm welcome of true Eskrimador. Okay, here is my thought in FMA in general: I have no doubt, that the arts they practices is good, I believed that there are no "Bad" FMA, all is good, the one that make it "Bad" is when they sold "Master Certificate" and not even know how to hold and swing the sticks. I know a lot of Masters in FMA specially here in US, that not really a Masters, to us we can call them "Master Kuno" (wanna be). Is it a number of your student to be called you are master, or the quality of your skills? I am amids fan of the shows performer, like now a lot of FMA are developed a good routines to attract massive group of students (strictly good business strategy). I watch them and God knows how little benefits they can get to their arrange routines, but it sells out their business. I also seen a good "Master" do a good Eskrima but somehow this good "Master" dont have much students? You know why, everyone is looking easy training, less time in a short time, so you are called "Masters" in with no much time effort.. I am fan of them, becaused I can't do what they can do, lied to people.. Stealing their money in exchange of "Bad" fighting strategies, it's a Self Defenseless arts. This is where I step in, challenge every single one of them, to step up o the ladder of training, and Sparring is a good start to wake them up and smell the aroma of stick burning from your hits. Speeds drills, drill npattern, syncronized dance, all looking good and to say that they can really fights, its too good to be truth if every strikes is succesfully blocked and counters.. In reality, this is has little effectiveness, you should know strategically how sto finish the fight, not only to start the fight, and come what may the rest.. Somehow we need to learn how to finish the fight, not only blocking, and continuos blocking to a form of flows of blocks. Majority of system of today is in this form,, just block here, block here, and block here.. During my lesson from my numbers of Maestros, they forbids me to blocks, it's a waste of time, what they what me to do is stop them, the blocks become removes the "B" it becomes "locks" only, meaning stop. Locks not necessarilly arm bar, wrist locks, it means "stopping" your opponent of being able to attack again, stopping him by means of putting him out of commision (knock him out, striking , chocking, bone breaking, etc.). Majority of FMA I have seen of today, is 50/50, they just hit each other like no tomorrow, till one has more hit that the other one.. Try not to get hit and effectively hit your opponents, that is skill..then you can call yourself Eskrimador. Well, just my thought,, be well and hope it give little idea to others, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************** Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00 030000000001) _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:38:41 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Qualities of a Master To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net didn't know there was anything free with you, Sir Ray Ray wrote: On Mar 23, 2008, at 10:38 PM, jay de leon wrote: > "...invented the term Grandmaster for...." > > I assume you mean, he was the first to use the title Grandmaster in a > martial arts context, in this case Kuk Sool Won.. > > The term grandmaster has been around for quite a few centuries by > this > time. It has been used by the Knights Templars and many other knight > organizations, the Masons, the international chess federation and > many > others. Yes. A Freemason and Sir Knight here... :) Ray Terry EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 From: <2@msfencing.org> To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] A Master/and who is the Masters Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:04:54 -0600 Organization: 2@msfencing.org Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I guess, the Master that we are talking here is "Someone" who teach? Well, > in > a Eskrima if I would analyzed what is Master and Who is the Master is. > Someone can walk the talk and not someone just talk and talk. This is true. Talk without demonstration of technique is not real teaching. In order for one to teach how to do something he must first be able to do it himself. He must have the ability to use it himself. On the other side however, if one can "walk the walk" but is incapbable of "talking the talk" (teaching others) then he is nothing more than an expert technician and certainly not a true master. If he is incapable of helping others learn how to defend themselves using his art then his art dies with him and does no one else any good. Mastery I think requires a high level of BOTH fighting ability (self-defense) and teaching ability (imparting it to others). Skill in both "walking the walk" and "talking the talk" appear to be what makes one a true master. And so I would think that if one is able to create a true master (his masterpiece) then it must also be a given that he himself is already a true master himself. Grace and Peace, Rez --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Qualities of a Master Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:23:29 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Mar 24, 2008, at 8:38 AM, jay de leon wrote: > didn't know there was anything free with you, Sir Ray 15 years of running this free forum and 10 years of teaching LEOs for free. That is all... Ray Terry EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- Message: 6 From: <2@msfencing.org> To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] A Complete Master Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:34:03 -0600 Organization: 2@msfencing.org Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > If one difinition of Master is this, then master is just word, it cannot > be > fullfilled by anyone. If we are looking at more than one lifetime? If a > master > is takes more than one lifetime, what about the Grandmasters? it takes > them > what? This nonsense.. just words, just phrase to make it sound you know > what > you > are talking about.. Dear Mr. Baet, Your true meaning in your posts are often difficult to understand due to the grammar structure you use. I hope that this is the case here and that I am misunderstanding your intent. However, it appears in the above reply that you are making the personal attack of accusing me of "saying nonsense to sound like I know what I am talking about." If that is your meaning then I take offense at that because I was only repeating what I was told by the only two true masters I have had personal contact with (both were actually Grand Masters). What I stated (and you called nonsense) is a common thought in many oriental cultures and in Martial arts, that one never truly masters anything because all arts are always changing, evolving, improving. There is always something new to learn and so you are always a student and never a master in the full and complete sense of the word. The related statement which I have also always heard expressed in conjunction with the above is that if someone tells you they are a master then you can rest assured that they are not. The subject heading in my message was "Complete Master." Do you truly know any complete masters? Do you truly know anyone who has mastered all there is to know about self-defense? Most sincere masters would be humble enough to admit they have not mastered all there is to know about self-defense. I think this is why most true masters are humbled when others call them master and prefer not to refer to themselves as masters as Master Terry has also stated. Grace and Peace, Rez --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A Master/and who is the Masters Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:23:10 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The infamous Saavedras of Doce Pares are interesting examples. They are credited with teaching some of RP's top Eskrimadors. Lorenzo Saavedra was one of the founders and he had two nephews that were active in the club; Teodoro and Frederico Saavedra. As Cacoy once explained to me one of the nephews could fight, but could not teach. One could teach, but could not fight. Learning under a Master that can do both is indeed fortunate. Ray Terry EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest