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From eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Fri Mar 28 19:47:23 2008 Return-Path: Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (tarsus.bollow.ch [82.195.230.222]) by plus11.host4u.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id m2T0lMs20868 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:47:23 -0500 Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tarsus.bollow.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6540EB283AF; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 02:49:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 02:48:22 +0100 Message-ID: <20080329014822.8920.50110.Mailman@tarsus.bollow.ch> From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #88 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Categories of Eskrima (jorge penafiel) 2. one of the hotbeds of the Visayan martial art of eskrima (Eskrima-FMA) 3. Re: Categories of Eskrima (Ray Terry) 4. Re: Categories of Eskrima (jay de leon) 5. Re: Categories of Eskrima (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "jorge penafiel" To: Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:23:52 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Categories of Eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net WHOAA !!! Kapatid Talibong Antike another excellent note this "Eskrima Categories". I like the four categories and thinking about it deeper kind of present perspectives and a gauge as to what/who an Eskrimader I (we) am really. It got my retired mind-set stirred up and going again, as it was thought provoking and intriguing - that litlle question mark on our head that won't go away until you have the proper answer. Right?? So here goes: Preferrably, I'd like to see me as a Eskrimador Guerrero IF am still in my youth and be back in time in the old country where the Rajas, Maharlikas, and Chieftain roams. Imagine what goes with this honor and privileges?? I would like to take with me though my ED pals Jay de Leon, Gabe, Jun, as will be known thru out the land as the "Party Warriors". Guys you know what I mean ( sorry it's my other alter-ego)??? Seriously,bringing back to those times what we know now would be a huge advantage, or maybe not, as some of those guys then were a wild bunch as well as history presented.. OK,, back to earth and the present times,,,I think a mixed of Eskrimador Matador (50%)/Jugado (35%)/Intablado (15%). Of course, I tried to input the many things to mind what I deemed have influenced my assesment (above); i.e., changes in time and MA culture, technology, legalities, venues, business, etc. These factors in reality really does affected what we (eskrimadors) can do today. Well, got myself laid out for all to skirmish and echo back. It felt good to analyzed oneself at times and so, who's next?? Oosshh!! Jorge Penafiel --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:50:59 -0700 From: Eskrima-FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] one of the hotbeds of the Visayan martial art of eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Saturday, March 29, 2008 Vidal forms 2 committees to raise funds, study design for Oslob church Sun.Star Cebu Local church leaders formed two committees yesterday to work on the design of the new Oslob parish church and to raise funds for its construction. As this developed, a judge and a government prosecutor both explained that the law allows the local government to help pay for a new church. A dawn fire initially blamed on a short-circuit lost the southern town its 160-year-old Immaculate Conception Parish last Wednesday. In a meeting yesterday morning with Cebu Archbishop Ricardo Cardinal Vidal, the clergy formed a fundraising committee and a technical committee. The first group will explore approaches to pay for the reconstruction, including second collections during masses, said media liaison officer Msgr. Achilles Dakay in a mobile phone interview. Members of the second group will look for engineers and architects and coordinate with them on the design of the parish, among others. There is no timeframe yet on how soon the construction can start. When he visited the ruins last Thursday, Cardinal Vidal asked if the thick walls that survived the fire can still be used. While he asked the parish priest, Rev. Fr. Val Gemelo, to abide by the normal flow of parish activities, the prelate said the church is also open to donations to help rebuild the parish. Meanwhile, a judge and a public prosecutor said that government funds can be used to restore the Oslob parish. Heritage After all, opined Regional Trial Court (RTC) Judge Geraldine Faith Econg, that building is more than just a place of worship, it has become part of Cebu's heritage. "Not only can it help in the restoration, it (the local government, primarily) has a responsibility to preserve it," she said. She cited the general welfare clause of Republic Act 7160, the Local Government Code. "The state shall ensure and support preservation and enrichment of culture," she said, quoting one provision. Naga City Prosecutor Aida Sanchez also pointed out in a separate interview that what is being helped isn't the church, but the people who go there. The Cebu Provincial Government earlier gave P3.2 million for the rehabilitation of the Boljoon Church, after the National Heritage Council declared it a heritage site. Historical records show that Oslob was established as a visita of Boljoon in 1690 and became an independent parish in 1848, with the Immaculate Conception as its patroness. The church, in turn, was built on May 4, 1830 under the direction of Fr. Julian Bermejo. Survival Bermejo, according to museum curator Roel Rigor in a previous article, commissioned the building of watchtowers along the coast of southern Cebu for a military purpose: to watch out for and warn against incoming Moro raiders. The church was made of cut stone and corals and also served as a fortress for the townsfolk during raids. Oslob town, said Dr. Ned Nepangue and Celestino Macachor in their 2007 book "Cebuano Eskrima: Beyond the Myth", is one of the hotbeds of the Visayan martial art of eskrima. Fire gutted the church in 1955 but it was eventually restored. The entire church complex is surrounded by a stone wall. At the southeastern portion of the complex are the unfinished remains of a military barracks. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:58:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Categories of Eskrima To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Didn't Mark Wiley categorize various types of Eskrimas? I'd have to dig out that particular book again, but I seem to recall him noting the stylistic differences between old style combat eskrimas vs. more modern eskrimas (perhaps modern arnis) vs. pure sport eskrima (aka WEKAF) and classifying eskrimas & styles based on that. ??? Ray ----- Original Message ---- From: jorge penafiel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:23:52 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Categories of Eskrima WHOAA !!! Kapatid Talibong Antike another excellent note this "Eskrima Categories". I like the four categories and thinking about it deeper kind of present perspectives and a gauge as to what/who an Eskrimader I (we) am really. It got my retired mind-set stirred up and going again, as it was thought provoking and intriguing - that litlle question mark on our head that won't go away until you have the proper answer. Right?? So here goes: Preferrably, I'd like to see me as a Eskrimador Guerrero IF am still in my youth and be back in time in the old country where the Rajas, Maharlikas, and Chieftain roams. Imagine what goes with this honor and privileges?? I would like to take with me though my ED pals Jay de Leon, Gabe, Jun, as will be known thru out the land as the "Party Warriors". Guys you know what I mean ( sorry it's my other alter-ego)??? Seriously,bringing back to those times what we know now would be a huge advantage, or maybe not, as some of those guys then were a wild bunch as well as history presented.. OK,, back to earth and the present times,,,I think a mixed of Eskrimador Matador (50%)/Jugado (35%)/Intablado (15%). Of course, I tried to input the many things to mind what I deemed have influenced my assesment (above); i.e., changes in time and MA culture, technology, legalities, venues, business, etc. These factors in reality really does affected what we (eskrimadors) can do today. Well, got myself laid out for all to skirmish and echo back. It felt good to analyzed oneself at times and so, who's next?? Oosshh!! Jorge Penafiel _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:58:33 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Categories of Eskrima To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net fwiw, i have mentioned in previous posts that the old eskrimadors basically taught "entablado" and "pamatay" or "matador." the "jugado" is of course the sports aspect of it, a more recent development of the art, although buno or dumog was part of competition and entertainment way back then. the more rounded FMA styles nowadays--Doce Pares, Modern Arnis, Bakbakan, Garimot, etc-- strive to practice (and teach) all these aspects of the art. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com Ray Terry wrote: Didn't Mark Wiley categorize various types of Eskrimas? I'd have to dig out that particular book again, but I seem to recall him noting the stylistic differences between old style combat eskrimas vs. more modern eskrimas (perhaps modern arnis) vs. pure sport eskrima (aka WEKAF) and classifying eskrimas & styles based on that. ??? Ray ----- Original Message ---- From: jorge penafiel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:23:52 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Categories of Eskrima WHOAA !!! Kapatid Talibong Antike another excellent note this "Eskrima Categories". I like the four categories and thinking about it deeper kind of present perspectives and a gauge as to what/who an Eskrimader I (we) am really. It got my retired mind-set stirred up and going again, as it was thought provoking and intriguing - that litlle question mark on our head that won't go away until you have the proper answer. Right?? So here goes: Preferrably, I'd like to see me as a Eskrimador Guerrero IF am still in my youth and be back in time in the old country where the Rajas, Maharlikas, and Chieftain roams. Imagine what goes with this honor and privileges?? I would like to take with me though my ED pals Jay de Leon, Gabe, Jun, as will be known thru out the land as the "Party Warriors". Guys you know what I mean ( sorry it's my other alter-ego)??? Seriously,bringing back to those times what we know now would be a huge advantage, or maybe not, as some of those guys then were a wild bunch as well as history presented.. OK,, back to earth and the present times,,,I think a mixed of Eskrimador Matador (50%)/Jugado (35%)/Intablado (15%). Of course, I tried to input the many things to mind what I deemed have influenced my assesment (above); i.e., changes in time and MA culture, technology, legalities, venues, business, etc. These factors in reality really does affected what we (eskrimadors) can do today. Well, got myself laid out for all to skirmish and echo back. It felt good to analyzed oneself at times and so, who's next?? Oosshh!! Jorge Penafiel _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:39:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Categories of Eskrima To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Don't know about the others, but when Cacoy teaches Doce Pares if you use the stick as a blade you are not doing Doce Pares. He classifies an art like Serrada as "old style" (said as he looks down his nose :) because the counters are optimized for going up against a blade and where you are using a blade. That was a change that he made to Doce Pares, and one thing that upset Momoy. Momoy would inquire, "Why are you changing my art?". But it was Cacoy that was doing all the fighting for the clan, not Momoy. And they used sticks, so he changed the art to work better with sticks and against sticks. If you used your stick as a blade or used counters as if the opponents stick was a blade then you weren't doing Doce Pares, you were doing "old style" eskrima which he does not stress or teach. In Doce Pares, if you wanted to work on a blade art then you'd put down the stick and pick up a dagger. Ray ----- Original Message ---- From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Categories of Eskrima fwiw, i have mentioned in previous posts that the old eskrimadors basically taught "entablado" and "pamatay" or "matador." the "jugado" is of course the sports aspect of it, a more recent development of the art, although buno or dumog was part of competition and entertainment way back then. the more rounded FMA styles nowadays--Doce Pares, Modern Arnis, Bakbakan, Garimot, etc-- strive to practice (and teach) all these aspects of the art. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest