Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:48:22 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #94 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2500 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Title of DATU (Gabriel rafael) 2. Gatpuno, Datu and ranking system Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #93 - 8 msgs (Pananandta@aol.com) 3. Re: Gatpuno, Datu and ranking system Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #93 - 8 msgs (jay de leon) 4. 37 year? yes it was.. (GatPuno@aol.com) 5. Gat Puno/Datu/Hari Titltes (jorge penafiel) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 15:32:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Gabriel rafael Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Title of DATU To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings All! Thank you very much for all the input on Title of DATU. I learned a lot, pros and cons, but it is all good. Since I opened the discussion, I am officially closing this subject unless someone else wants to contribute. Have a great weekend all of you. Mabuhay FMA! Gabe ----- Original Message ---- From: Gabriel rafael To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:40:14 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Title of DATU Greetings all! There were many opinions given on the titles of Grandmasters and Masters. All of them brought insights on these titles. Can we have opinions/clarification on the title of Datu? Thank you. Gabe Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 21:19:27 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Gatpuno, Datu and ranking system Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #93 - 8 msgs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jay, The title Datu was already in use in the Lanada System of arnis back in the late 1960's. Indeed, when I immigrated to the US in 1973, I brought a list of the ranks with me. I met Leo (Gaje Jr. founder of Pikiti Tirsia in the 3rd quarter of 1973) and became good friends with him. In mid-1974, he asked me for a favor. He asked me what sort of ranking system I was using and if I had, if I can let him use it. He was a good friend and I gave the list to him. Here is the list of the rank I provided him: Rajah Datu Lakan Hadji (If you recognize this as derived from jihad, you are right) Kaddy Leo did not use the rajah and two lower ranks and used only Datu and Lakan. After he used it and published the ranks of his students in the Filipino Reporter, the title caught on. In anticipation that there will be claims as to who introduced the titles in the US, in an interview I gave to the martial arts magazine Defense Combat (August 1976, New York) I specified the requirements for the rank of "kaddy". I also mentioned in the interview my rank at the time, "rajah". I was never comfortable with the title and I never used it. I mentioned it in the article just for the record. By the way, if anybody is wondering what a direct translation of "Gatpuno" means: "Gat" is derived from "ugat" meaning root. Puno is the trunk of a tree. Hence, Gatpuno, "ugat ng puno" can be directly translated as "root of the tree". Applied to the Filipino martial arts, "root of the tree" = "head/founder of the system". Best to all. APM **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 19:17:48 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Gatpuno, Datu and ranking system Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #93 - 8 msgs To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net PG Mat: Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I was aware of the etymology of Gatpuno, that is why I wrote it was "particularly descriptive." I am quite familiar with all those ranks and their connotation in their real usage, but i have never even heard of "kaddy." Can you tell us what the original rank or usage meant? Thank you. And good of you to de-lurk, lol. Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com Pananandta@aol.com wrote: Jay, The title Datu was already in use in the Lanada System of arnis back in the late 1960's. Indeed, when I immigrated to the US in 1973, I brought a list of the ranks with me. I met Leo (Gaje Jr. founder of Pikiti Tirsia in the 3rd quarter of 1973) and became good friends with him. In mid-1974, he asked me for a favor. He asked me what sort of ranking system I was using and if I had, if I can let him use it. He was a good friend and I gave the list to him. Here is the list of the rank I provided him: Rajah Datu Lakan Hadji (If you recognize this as derived from jihad, you are right) Kaddy Leo did not use the rajah and two lower ranks and used only Datu and Lakan. After he used it and published the ranks of his students in the Filipino Reporter, the title caught on. In anticipation that there will be claims as to who introduced the titles in the US, in an interview I gave to the martial arts magazine Defense Combat (August 1976, New York) I specified the requirements for the rank of "kaddy". I also mentioned in the interview my rank at the time, "rajah". I was never comfortable with the title and I never used it. I mentioned it in the article just for the record. By the way, if anybody is wondering what a direct translation of "Gatpuno" means: "Gat" is derived from "ugat" meaning root. Puno is the trunk of a tree. Hence, Gatpuno, "ugat ng puno" can be directly translated as "root of the tree". Applied to the Filipino martial arts, "root of the tree" = "head/founder of the system". Best to all. APM **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2500 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 22:33:38 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] 37 year? yes it was.. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 Andrew Maddox Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Datu/Title/Gatpuno/Hari > > > On Thu, 3 Apr 2008, gatpuno@aol.com wrote: > > > >  In regards of "Hari" (King), my father Felipe "Garimot" Baet was crowned > > "Hari ng Pitong Kabundukan" (King of the Seven Provinces), undefeated > Fighter > > and Stylist from 1950-1987. > > > (1)Laguna, (2)Quezon, (3)Rizal, (4)Cavite, (5)Batangas,(6) Bataan, (7) > Mindoro > > till the day that he died. > > <37 years? Wow. That is, to put it mildly, impressive. Mabuhay! > No, not Mabuhay!, he (My Fatehr) is long gone, just kidding. Well, it is a fact and we have records and witnesses to prove this all truth. As I always welcome everyone to visit Paete, Laguna, Philippines to see it for yourself. The remaining Maestros would love to tell stories of how my father used to fight. Up to this day, No school of other Martial Arts (Karate, Judo, Aikido) in my town. Becaused of this reputation that my family wasd holding on. My father not challenging them, but they challenges my father to gain populatiry and business deal. Parent dont want to enroll their kids to the other MA school, till they defeated my father, then the torch was pass down to my brother Daniel, then t o me.. My brother and I fought, student of TRACMA (Trobador Ramos Martial Arts), Aikido, Combat Judo, Karate (Shorin ryu in particular, student of Rolan and Roberto Gonzales, Boxer, Sikaran, student of Geronimo the founder of Sikaran, their school is in Sta Cruz, and nearby town, not in Paete, Even my bother in law is Black Belt in Sikaran, under their school, still no MA school in Paete only Arnis de Mano.. We are the family (di umuurong sa laban)that dont back-out in fights (Friendly or for real). Like I said before and again and again, anyone want to try us in sparring any comers welcome.. Its a tradition, if we got beat up, be it, atleast we know we have to work harder next time,if their next time, if not, oh well.. > > "student" and "teacher." Or "training partners" and "today's training > leader" ;-) > > and part time. > > -- > Practitioner of Unaffiliated Martial Arts > But really just, like, this guy, y'know? > There are reason too, why we work hard and keep our self busy training as hard like the first time, so we're remained sharp and ready. You should all be sharp and ready too always.. Salamat, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************** Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "jorge penafiel" To: Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 00:50:17 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Gat Puno/Datu/Hari Titltes Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Once again, Kapatid GP Abon assailed his wisdom and great knowledge about FMA specially his own Garimot System from his family roots and his beloved Laguna province from where base his Title of Gat Puno and other eclectic FMA titles like Datu and Hari. Can't refute his facts as they are based on the words spoken to his face by legendary FMA notables who gave him his title and to others given such titles of Datu/Hari/etc. Ever the humble man, in his mind it's best that we leave this fma titles whatever it is to rest due to "respect "of his Teachers, it's what makes FMA somewhat different from othe MA systems, and the best note to me was " Let the title users enjoy their title, its only title, no mean nothing actually.." Amen to this Abon. And Kapatid Jay de Leon,,,you woulden't let this chance of GP Abon cook for you and your guest next time he is in California go to haste. I tell you man,,,the best tagalog 'adobo ' I ever had. Not only this, lots more pinoy food variety and cook in the quickest of time. Don't know about these pinoy brothers, AMA Guro Raffy PAmbuan and GM Bobby Taboada - " Dey Can Cook". National Hero Jose Rizal a "Gat" aside the many titles his famous name carries,,,WOW!! Jorge Penafiel --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest