Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 02:48:21 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #147 - 3 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: grandmaster (terry and lito) (maurice gatdula) 2. Re: Re: grandmaster (terry and lito) (Mike Casto) 3. Fastl PI Trip and Takes!! (jorge penafiel) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 19:21:15 -0700 (PDT) From: maurice gatdula To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: grandmaster (terry and lito) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net its funny i was just talking about the "master"/"grandmaster" to my students a couple days ago. i realize that i have two opinions of this. one, a man cannot be a master of the art, unless he really mastered it as a skill, and as a tool. meaning, he can do this art, in the air, against a student who loves him, and another fighter who determined to beat him. and to say you have it in your hands as a tool, you had to use this tool or skill. a real master of the art like terry said, does not call him a master, he is called master. other than that, the guy is just a "self claim master". two, if a guy wants to call himself "master"/tuan/poobah, etc. he has to have the skill and the courage to back it up. but at the same time, to back it up, he will need to have someone call him on the carpet. if this happens, his student cannot step in for him, and he cannot allow his students to step in for him. he can excape this if he is old. i believe in both. so if a guy made his own style from my art, and we checked him out, and he did okay, then we will admit, that even though he is a beginner or intermediate in my place, he is authentic as a teacher/expert, if his skills say it for him. last month, one of my old students showed up in a tournament with a black belt, as a teacher. two of my guys had a fight with him, and one beat him, one lost, they both said he was pretty good, so that is good enough for me. as a teacher, you are always going to have students who dont finish, but if you plant the seed like you shuold, he will still turn out okay even if he left on bad terms, because you trained him right while he was with you. we cannot change this, and unless you are willing to walk him his place, and pull his sign down you have to except it. my guy, KNOWS he cannot call his art kuntaw or i will, but he will get the respect as another teacher because he is not out there embarassing himself. in history, many famous masters left their teachers, and they were on their own to establish his own reputations. Masutatsu Oyama did not have complete systems when he created his kyokushinkai, they didnt even accept him, but he paved his own road. my si jo in Jow Ga, chow loong, did not have complete choy gar, hung gar or bat gwa but he made his own way. this same way, the FMA seminar goer has to do the same if he is going to get respect from people other than his customers or readers of his websites and articles. we have to remember that many eskrima styles were not created by old men who studied under their masters for years and years, they were created by young men who only had a little bit of learning, but carved his blades with experience and reputation. this is why the contest is so important to the eskrimador. eskrima with no contest, is like basketball by yourself. the contest is where reputations are made, even for the masters. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:31:59 -0400 From: Mike Casto To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: grandmaster (terry and lito) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Well put, sir. I also am of 2 (or maybe 3) minds on the subject - probably comes with being a Gemini :-) One of those minds is definitely on the same page you're describing. Another is this. Generally, I don't equate "master" to "master of the system/art." I equate "master" with "master instructor." To me, a "master instructor" is a "teacher's teacher." It is equivalent to a "grandfather" in a family. From this perspective, if my students have become instructors and are teaching their own students then I am a "master instructor." From this follows "grandmaster" = "great grandfather." I am a "master instructor's instructor." From this perspective there can be more than one "grandmaster" in a given system. And then there are systems - such as Eskrido - where you are granted the title of "master" when you attain a particular rank (i.e.: 6th dan). As a 6th dan in Eskrido, I don't feel that I've "mastered" much of anything yet - but I can spar with the material and hold my own against other similarly ranked people. Mike maurice gatdula wrote: > its funny i was just talking about the "master"/"grandmaster" to my students a couple days ago. i realize that i have two opinions of this. > > one, a man cannot be a master of the art, unless he really mastered it as a skill, and as a tool. meaning, he can do this art, in the air, against a student who loves him, and another fighter who determined to beat him. and to say you have it in your hands as a tool, you had to use this tool or skill. a real master of the art like terry said, does not call him a master, he is called master. other than that, the guy is just a "self claim master". > > two, if a guy wants to call himself "master"/tuan/poobah, etc. he has to have the skill and the courage to back it up. but at the same time, to back it up, he will need to have someone call him on the carpet. if this happens, his student cannot step in for him, and he cannot allow his students to step in for him. he can excape this if he is old. > > i believe in both. so if a guy made his own style from my art, and we checked him out, and he did okay, then we will admit, that even though he is a beginner or intermediate in my place, he is authentic as a teacher/expert, if his skills say it for him. last month, one of my old students showed up in a tournament with a black belt, as a teacher. two of my guys had a fight with him, and one beat him, one lost, they both said he was pretty good, so that is good enough for me. as a teacher, you are always going to have students who dont finish, but if you plant the seed like you shuold, he will still turn out okay even if he left on bad terms, because you trained him right while he was with you. we cannot change this, and unless you are willing to walk him his place, and pull his sign down you have to except it. my guy, KNOWS he cannot call his art kuntaw or i will, but he will get the respect as another teacher because he is not out there embarassing himself. > > in history, many famous masters left their teachers, and they were on their own to establish his own reputations. Masutatsu Oyama did not have complete systems when he created his kyokushinkai, they didnt even accept him, but he paved his own road. my si jo in Jow Ga, chow loong, did not have complete choy gar, hung gar or bat gwa but he made his own way. this same way, the FMA seminar goer has to do the same if he is going to get respect from people other than his customers or readers of his websites and articles. we have to remember that many eskrima styles were not created by old men who studied under their masters for years and years, they were created by young men who only had a little bit of learning, but carved his blades with experience and reputation. > > this is why the contest is so important to the eskrimador. eskrima with no contest, is like basketball by yourself. the contest is where reputations are made, even for the masters. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "jorge penafiel" To: Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:15:03 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Fastl PI Trip and Takes!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello All !! Last May 15-30, I embarked on just my 3rd home trip back to PI having live in Ohio for 38 years now. What a wirlwind fast kick butt journey of long tideous plane rides from Dayton, Ohio/Detroit/Nagoya, Japan/Manila/PI inter-island flights, airport hazzles, and scary land rides to cover some of Tagalog/Ilocandia regions, Mactan, Cebu, Iloilo, and the whole of Panay island. All said and done it was a completely "whew" and an exhausting endeavor for a sixtagarian man like me. Anyhow, made it back and now recouped from jet-lag and rest.. Swear I won't be doing this again!! Also, what was accomplished was returning to my HS alma mater for a 50 yr HS celebration. I bet just a few of ED people have yet to have this moment in time. OMG, what a sensation beyond bounce and so, I hope for you all to someday have this one apportunity in your lifetime. Alas, a return trip back home to Lapaz, Iloilo not since last 1964 was also memorable and of course little home grown FMA was in the "must do" agenda. Happy to tell you all that I meet up with James Sy, Van Fuentes (neeTalibung Antique), and Mert Altares. All fine examples of true FMA enthusiasts, scholars, and practitioners. The future of FMA then was for sure guaranted to live-on there based on their mind sets and vissionary missions. An excahnged of what is FMA in the USA and Philippines was top on the table talks. There were commonalities for sure but because of "what exists" in the Philippine streets and invirons, FMA there was more "A way of Life" and not definitely towards sport or business.. As a take home knowledge, I was privileged and honored to be shown what was for "Family" tradition and jest of "Uno Blanco Arnis System". Something special most definitely, plus I also got a touch of "meridian realignment", importance of body cleanse, pressure points for health, a book on "secrets of a Happy Living, and a "tult-tula" stick used by "Tapado" arnis practioners. Aahh so many more to talk about but for now, my thanks to James, Van, and Mert. Till we meet again!! Jorge V. Penafiel --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest