Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:04:00 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #148 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. remember bruce tegner? (maurice gatdula) 2. Re: remember bruce tegner? (Mike Casto) 3. Re: Fastl PI Trip and Takes!! (Talibung Antike) 4. Grandmasters (Peter Lewis) 5. Re: remember bruce tegner? (james jr. sy) 6. Hello from Italy (CalixEurope) 7. Re: remember bruce tegner? (jay de leon) 8. Re: Fastl PI Trip and Takes!! (jay de leon) 9. Re: Grandmasters (Mike Casto) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 15:42:08 -0700 (PDT) From: maurice gatdula To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] remember bruce tegner? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net wow, the first book i think i saw when i was a boy was in a library on clark air base in the philippines, and bruce tegner wrote them all. here is him with his mom doing jujitsu http://youtube.com/watch?v=97f57NjgXX0 the other books, and my first karate book, is mas oyama "vital karate". my mom gave this to me, when i was 8 years old, living in taiwan. anybody remember that book? --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:03:15 -0400 From: Mike Casto To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] remember bruce tegner? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Absolutely. I had Tegner's Judo book when I was a kid. It didn't have any specific bearing on my training at the time - I was training in TKD and then Okinawan Goju-Ryu - but it was probably the first thing that really got me thinking outside the box of pure striking and started me on the road toward having an open minded approach to my training. In the long run, that mindset - which I can, at least in part, attribute to Tegner's book - is part of the reason I'm where I am today in my development. Mike maurice gatdula wrote: > wow, the first book i think i saw when i was a boy was in a library on clark air base in the philippines, and bruce tegner wrote them all. > > here is him with his mom doing jujitsu > > http://youtube.com/watch?v=97f57NjgXX0 > > the other books, and my first karate book, is mas oyama "vital karate". my mom gave this to me, when i was 8 years old, living in taiwan. anybody remember that book? > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 00:56:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Talibung Antike Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Fastl PI Trip and Takes!! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Manong Jorge! Glad to know you enjoyed your homecoming brief as it was... It's always a pleasure to connect and meet fellow avid lovers of "Eskrima" more so friends and "kasimanwas" . You're always welcome here in the island of Panay and we'll always look forward to your coming over. Yes you're right in your keen observation re the Traditional FMA here in this part of our country... more so in an environment and atmosphere where life is so hard upped with the "hulidap" by scalawags, kidnappings,  drug traders/addicts, rebels, plus the thousands of  loose firearms moving around untracked.. we've no choice but to perpetuate the original mindset of our great forebears on which "Eskrima" was built on...which is "to  survive the harsh realities of life", making it "a way of life" not just a living. We can't afford to take some un-calculated risks, a second chance... coz most often it'll be too late. That's why it is not uncommon for true blooded FMA'ers to be seen in the shooting ranges during weekends honing their quick draws, speed shots, runs, rolls and forms not with sticks nor "talibungs" anymore but with .45ACP 1911, Glock .40Cal, Colt Super.38 and 9mm's bringing FMA to another level of playing field. It seems so extreme and absurd to some but that is the demand of the times  here  in our native land  of survival. It may seem unthinkable to resort to these kind of extreme Eskrima practice in these modern times, but it is one of the  equalizers for those who want to survive life- both within the law and outside the law... On the other hand it makes us realize that the true essence of practicing Eskrima in our Philippine setting is to appreciate and love life more, to build bridges of friendship & brotherhood, espouse unity and cooperation, to fight moral degradation, violence and corruption, fight disease and sickness because these are the true enemies of man... my warmest regards and greetings, "Talibung Antike" --- On Sun, 6/8/08, jorge penafiel <totoamy@fuse.net> wrote: From: jorge penafiel <totoamy@fuse.net> Subject: [Eskrima] Fastl PI Trip and Takes!! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sunday, June 8, 2008, 6:15 PM Hello All !! Last May 15-30, I embarked on just my 3rd home trip back to PI having live in Ohio for 38 years now. What a wirlwind fast kick butt journey of long tideous plane rides from Dayton, Ohio/Detroit/Nagoya, Japan/Manila/PI inter-island flights, airport hazzles, and scary land rides to cover some of Tagalog/Ilocandia regions, Mactan, Cebu, Iloilo, and the whole of Panay island. All said and done it was a completely "whew" and an exhausting endeavor for a sixtagarian man like me. Anyhow, made it back and now recouped from jet-lag and rest.. Swear I won't be doing this again!! Also, what was accomplished was returning to my HS alma mater for a 50 yr HS celebration. I bet just a few of ED people have yet to have this moment in time. OMG, what a sensation beyond bounce and so, I hope for you all to someday have this one apportunity in your lifetime. Alas, a return trip back home to Lapaz, Iloilo not since last 1964 was also memorable and of course little home grown FMA was in the "must do" agenda. Happy to tell you all that I meet up with James Sy, Van Fuentes (neeTalibung Antique), and Mert Altares. All fine examples of true FMA enthusiasts, scholars, and practitioners. The future of FMA then was for sure guaranted to live-on there based on their mind sets and vissionary missions. An excahnged of what is FMA in the USA and Philippines was top on the table talks. There were commonalities for sure but because of "what exists" in the Philippine streets and invirons, FMA there was more "A way of Life" and not definitely towards sport or business.. As a take home knowledge, I was privileged and honored to be shown what was for "Family" tradition and jest of "Uno Blanco Arnis System". Something special most definitely, plus I also got a touch of "meridian realignment", importance of body cleanse, pressure points for health, a book on "secrets of a Happy Living, and a "tult-tula" stick used by "Tapado" arnis practioners. Aahh so many more to talk about but for now, my thanks to James, Van, and Mert. Till we meet again!! Jorge V. Penafiel _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Peter Lewis To: Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 06:59:12 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Grandmasters Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Message: 2> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:31:59 -0400> From: Mike Casto > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net> Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: grandmaster (terry and lito)> Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net> > > Another is this.> > Generally, I don't equate "master" to "master of the system/art." I> equate "master" with "master instructor." To me, a "master instructor"> is a "teacher's teacher." It is equivalent to a "grandfather" in a> family. From this perspective, if my students have become instructors> and are teaching their own students then I am a "master instructor."> From this follows "grandmaster" = "great grandfather." I am a "master> instructor's instructor." From this perspective there can be more than> one "grandmaster" in a given system.> > > Mike> Yes. Well put Mike. I also share this view that a 'Master' is a 'teacher's teacher.' It is interesting that, in a past era, there were no titles within the martial arts and the warrior's skill and reputation was what determined status. Clearly, there are perceived benefits for a practitioner with a 'high level' title as these demand higher fees and perceived status within the arts. My own international research conducted last year suggests that approximately 87% of practitioners of the FMA are not interested in grades, status or trophies. So much for grand titles and tournament trophies! Gumagalang Peter _________________________________________________________________ Great deals on almost anything at eBay.co.uk. Search, bid, find and win on eBay today! http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000004ukm/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 02:59:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] remember bruce tegner? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ya, Oyama Masutatsu Sensei's books were a hit to the early students of Karate. I'm a later practitioner of Karate but I still have a copy of his Vital Karate book. Have also read his What is Karate? and This is Karate. maurice gatdula wrote: wow, the first book i think i saw when i was a boy was in a library on clark air base in the philippines, and bruce tegner wrote them all. here is him with his mom doing jujitsu http://youtube.com/watch?v=97f57NjgXX0 the other books, and my first karate book, is mas oyama "vital karate". my mom gave this to me, when i was 8 years old, living in taiwan. anybody remember that book? --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:13:47 +0200 From: CalixEurope To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Hello from Italy Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello to everybody my name is Chiara and I'm From Italy. I practice Escrima since one year but i just love it. I've practiced also karate wado ryu (for 15years), hakko ryu ju jutsu (3 years) and krav maga (2 years) but the knife and stick allways colled me :-) this is my school whit my master (for english there is the option on the top in home page): www.calixeurope.com and may be one day i'll post also one my video...maybe :-P excuse my little english but I want know other escrimador :-) bye bye chiara --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 07:35:33 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] remember bruce tegner? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Who can forget pictures of his encounter with the bull?   Of course, if that happened today in the US, he would probably have animal rights activists on his case.   Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com --- On Mon, 6/9/08, james jr. sy <james_sy_jr74@yahoo.com> wrote: From: james jr. sy <james_sy_jr74@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Eskrima] remember bruce tegner? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Monday, June 9, 2008, 2:59 AM Ya, Oyama Masutatsu Sensei's books were a hit to the early students of Karate. I'm a later practitioner of Karate but I still have a copy of his Vital Karate book. Have also read his What is Karate? and This is Karate. maurice gatdula <thekuntawman@yahoo.com> wrote: wow, the first book i think i saw when i was a boy was in a library on clark air base in the philippines, and bruce tegner wrote them all. here is him with his mom doing jujitsu http://youtube.com/watch?v=97f57NjgXX0 the other books, and my first karate book, is mas oyama "vital karate". my mom gave this to me, when i was 8 years old, living in taiwan. anybody remember that book? _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:48:43 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Fastl PI Trip and Takes!! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Master Jorge:   Congratulations on the trip, and thanks for sharing.   It is always a kick to meet real deal arnisadors and scholars in the phil, like the gentlemen you mentioned. i have had the pleasure of exchanging private emails with a couple of them.  i believe mert worked and taught FMA in saudi arabia.   I am surprised you did not mention food and some local beverages at all, lol.   If you have digital pictures and you can provide captions and short write-ups for me, I will chronicle your historic odyssey in my websites.   Please respond by private email.   Thanks,   Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com --- On Sun, 6/8/08, jorge penafiel <totoamy@fuse.net> wrote: From: jorge penafiel <totoamy@fuse.net> Subject: [Eskrima] Fastl PI Trip and Takes!! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sunday, June 8, 2008, 11:15 AM Hello All !! Last May 15-30, I embarked on just my 3rd home trip back to PI having live in Ohio for 38 years now. What a wirlwind fast kick butt journey of long tideous plane rides from Dayton, Ohio/Detroit/Nagoya, Japan/Manila/PI inter-island flights, airport hazzles, and scary land rides to cover some of Tagalog/Ilocandia regions, Mactan, Cebu, Iloilo, and the whole of Panay island. All said and done it was a completely "whew" and an exhausting endeavor for a sixtagarian man like me. Anyhow, made it back and now recouped from jet-lag and rest.. Swear I won't be doing this again!! Also, what was accomplished was returning to my HS alma mater for a 50 yr HS celebration. I bet just a few of ED people have yet to have this moment in time. OMG, what a sensation beyond bounce and so, I hope for you all to someday have this one apportunity in your lifetime. Alas, a return trip back home to Lapaz, Iloilo not since last 1964 was also memorable and of course little home grown FMA was in the "must do" agenda. Happy to tell you all that I meet up with James Sy, Van Fuentes (neeTalibung Antique), and Mert Altares. All fine examples of true FMA enthusiasts, scholars, and practitioners. The future of FMA then was for sure guaranted to live-on there based on their mind sets and vissionary missions. An excahnged of what is FMA in the USA and Philippines was top on the table talks. There were commonalities for sure but because of "what exists" in the Philippine streets and invirons, FMA there was more "A way of Life" and not definitely towards sport or business.. As a take home knowledge, I was privileged and honored to be shown what was for "Family" tradition and jest of "Uno Blanco Arnis System". Something special most definitely, plus I also got a touch of "meridian realignment", importance of body cleanse, pressure points for health, a book on "secrets of a Happy Living, and a "tult-tula" stick used by "Tapado" arnis practioners. Aahh so many more to talk about but for now, my thanks to James, Van, and Mert. Till we meet again!! Jorge V. Penafiel _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:05:07 -0400 From: Mike Casto To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Grandmasters Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Yeah. I don't really care one way or the other about titles and ranks. If I meet someone who claims X amount of time training and what I see/feel from them reflects that claim then I consider them legitimate - regardless of what rank/title they have or don't have. If, on the other hand, what I see/feel doesn't match their claim then my BS meter starts pinging. Sometimes it just means the person is rusty for one reason or another. Sometimes it means he's a slow learner. Sometimes it means he's full of crap. Again, the rank/title claimed is irrelevant. The only place rank/title has *any* significance is within your own school - and, sometimes, within your system at, for instance, a sister school. The only exception to this is if you've been invited to teach somewhere - in that case your rank/title are somewhat significant because, for the duration of your teaching, it's your class. But it's still important that you be able to back up your claims - though the back up may not necessarily be physical. I have no problem with good teachers who suck at the physical expression of it or who can't fight very well - as long as they're up front about it. There are people who have physical liabilities or injuries that prevent them from being able to do the physical aspects very well. But I can still respect them and consider them legitimate if they understand the material and can communicate it. For me, I had this mindset even before coming to the Southeast Asian MA - it's one of the things that originally drew me to these arts, in fact. When I started in MA, I started in TKD. In those days ('78) no one expected to get a black belt in anything less than five years - and that was rare. 7 - 10 was considered the norm. If someone had a black belt then there was a certain base level of skill and/or ability that you could expect from them. When I began training in Okinawan Goju-Ryu (around '80) it was the same thing. Sometime over the next 20 years, though, it all shifted. People started giving out black belts based purely on hours of class attended with no real expectations for skill/ability level. We started hearing about belts and rank being literally bought. There was a great article I read where the author decided to test out some of these things. He sent off a chunk of money to a company with the appropriate paperwork. They sent him a set of DVDs and a rank certificate for (if memory serves) a 2nd or 3rd Dan - based on the "good faith" assumption that the videos would be watched and the material trained. There was no review or anything. The really funny part is that the paperwork had been filled out for *his dog*. So the guy's dog has "legitimate" instructor rank - and the wallpaper to prove it - in some MA system. And when I heard that there were schools that *guaranteed* a black belt in 2 years I realized that the days of rank/title having *any* real meaning were long past. Mike Peter Lewis wrote: >> Message: 2> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:31:59 -0400> From: Mike Casto >> > > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net> Subject: Re: [Eskrima] > Re: grandmaster (terry and lito)> Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net> > > >> Another is this.> > Generally, I don't equate "master" to "master of the >> > system/art." I> equate "master" with "master instructor." To me, a "master > instructor"> is a "teacher's teacher." It is equivalent to a "grandfather" in > a> family. From this perspective, if my students have become instructors> and > are teaching their own students then I am a "master instructor."> From this > follows "grandmaster" = "great grandfather." I am a "master> instructor's > instructor." From this perspective there can be more than> one "grandmaster" > in a given system.> > > Mike> > Yes. Well put Mike. I also share this view that a 'Master' is a 'teacher's > teacher.' > > It is interesting that, in a past era, there were no titles within the martial > arts and the warrior's skill and reputation was what determined status. > Clearly, there are perceived benefits for a practitioner with a 'high level' > title as these demand higher fees and perceived status within the arts. My > own international research conducted last year suggests that approximately 87% > of practitioners of the FMA are not interested in grades, status or trophies. > So much for grand titles and tournament trophies! > > Gumagalang > > Peter > _________________________________________________________________ > Great deals on almost anything at eBay.co.uk. Search, bid, find and win on > eBay today! > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000004ukm/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest