Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 02:48:21 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #150 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2600 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Grandmasters (james jr. sy) 2. Re: remember bruce tegner? (james jr. sy) 3. Re: Grandmasters (Alex Lizardo) 4. Re: remember bruce tegner? (Onebofa@aol.com) 5. Re: remember bruce tegner? (Mike Casto) 6. Re: remember bruce tegner? (jay de leon) 7. Mark Wiley seminar in Leicester (Jon Broster) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 02:42:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Grandmasters To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Agree to that Master Lewis. FMA titles were non existent during the early days. The titles just surfaced as late as the 1970s in the Philippines, a time when Arnis/Escrima was being rediscovered by urbanized areas in the country. James Peter Lewis wrote: > Message: 2> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:31:59 -0400> From: Mike Casto > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net> Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: grandmaster (terry and lito)> Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net> > > Another is this.> > Generally, I don't equate "master" to "master of the system/art." I> equate "master" with "master instructor." To me, a "master instructor"> is a "teacher's teacher." It is equivalent to a "grandfather" in a> family. From this perspective, if my students have become instructors> and are teaching their own students then I am a "master instructor."> From this follows "grandmaster" = "great grandfather." I am a "master> instructor's instructor." From this perspective there can be more than> one "grandmaster" in a given system.> > > Mike> Yes. Well put Mike. I also share this view that a 'Master' is a 'teacher's teacher.' It is interesting that, in a past era, there were no titles within the martial arts and the warrior's skill and reputation was what determined status. Clearly, there are perceived benefits for a practitioner with a 'high level' title as these demand higher fees and perceived status within the arts. My own international research conducted last year suggests that approximately 87% of practitioners of the FMA are not interested in grades, status or trophies. So much for grand titles and tournament trophies! Gumagalang Peter --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 02:44:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] remember bruce tegner? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The bull was the crowning glory in showing the power of Karate. Everybody just loved Oyama Sensei. But I'll I agree with you Master Jay, he'll have stiff resistance from the animal rights activists if the bull fights happened at this time. James U. Sy Jr. jay de leon wrote: Who can forget pictures of his encounter with the bull? Of course, if that happened today in the US, he would probably have animal rights activists on his case. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:29:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Lizardo Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Grandmasters To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Wow at last the grand master master ranks make sense to me thank you for you depiction of how it should be. Ranks and belts have always been somthing I struggled to know now it makes total sence. thank you for your words of wisdom. Alex "james jr. sy" wrote: Agree to that Master Lewis. FMA titles were non existent during the early days. The titles just surfaced as late as the 1970s in the Philippines, a time when Arnis/Escrima was being rediscovered by urbanized areas in the country. James Peter Lewis wrote: > Message: 2> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:31:59 -0400> From: Mike Casto > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net> Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: grandmaster (terry and lito)> Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net> > > Another is this.> > Generally, I don't equate "master" to "master of the system/art." I> equate "master" with "master instructor." To me, a "master instructor"> is a "teacher's teacher." It is equivalent to a "grandfather" in a> family. From this perspective, if my students have become instructors> and are teaching their own students then I am a "master instructor."> From this follows "grandmaster" = "great grandfather." I am a "master> instructor's instructor." From this perspective there can be more than> one "grandmaster" in a given system.> > > Mike> Yes. Well put Mike. I also share this view that a 'Master' is a 'teacher's teacher.' It is interesting that, in a past era, there were no titles within the martial arts and the warrior's skill and reputation was what determined status. Clearly, there are perceived benefits for a practitioner with a 'high level' title as these demand higher fees and perceived status within the arts. My own international research conducted last year suggests that approximately 87% of practitioners of the FMA are not interested in grades, status or trophies. So much for grand titles and tournament trophies! Gumagalang Peter _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Onebofa@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:08:55 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] remember bruce tegner? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This topic raises some questions. If a person is going to fight a bull, what is the condition of the bull, what training has the bull received to fight a trained human fighter, and what are the rules of engagement? The reason I ask is that having seen rodeo bulls and bulls in Spanish style bull fights, it seems difficult to believe that any human being could get close enough for long enough to shear off a bulls horn with his bare hand. I think we would all find it interesting to watch a well conditioned, unhandicapped, karate master use his empty hand karate skills to fight a well conditioned, unhandicapped, bull that has been trained to fight humans with only his, the bull's, god given weapons, empty hands and feet against empty horns and hooves. In such a situation I doubt that any animal rights activists would have to offer much resistance. Cheers HM In a message dated 6/10/2008 6:03:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, james_sy_jr74@yahoo.com writes: The bull was the crowning glory in showing the power of Karate. Everybody just loved Oyama Sensei. But I'll I agree with you Master Jay, he'll have stiff resistance from the animal rights activists if the bull fights happened at this time. James U. Sy Jr. jay de leon wrote: Who can forget pictures of his encounter with the bull? Of course, if that happened today in the US, he would probably have animal rights activists on his case. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:23:48 -0400 From: Mike Casto To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] remember bruce tegner? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I've heard - though can't remember where and it may be erroneous - that Oyama did most of his bull killing in a slaughterhouse. Mike Onebofa@aol.com wrote: > This topic raises some questions. If a person is going to fight a bull, > what is the condition of the bull, what training has the bull received to fight > a trained human fighter, and what are the rules of engagement? > > The reason I ask is that having seen rodeo bulls and bulls in Spanish style > bull fights, it seems difficult to believe that any human being could get > close enough for long enough to shear off a bulls horn with his bare hand. > > I think we would all find it interesting to watch a well conditioned, > unhandicapped, karate master use his empty hand karate skills to fight a well > conditioned, unhandicapped, bull that has been trained to fight humans with only > his, the bull's, god given weapons, empty hands and feet against empty horns > and hooves. > > In such a situation I doubt that any animal rights activists would have to > offer much resistance. > > Cheers > > HM > > > In a message dated 6/10/2008 6:03:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > james_sy_jr74@yahoo.com writes: > > The bull was the crowning glory in showing the power of Karate. Everybody > just loved Oyama Sensei. But I'll I agree with you Master Jay, he'll have > stiff resistance from the animal rights activists if the bull fights happened > at this time. > > James U. Sy Jr. > > jay de leon wrote: > Who can forget pictures of his encounter with > the bull? > > Of course, if that happened today in the US, he would > probably have animal rights activists on his case. > > Jay de Leon > www.filipinofightingartsintl.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > > > > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best > 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 13:54:39 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] remember bruce tegner? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Two points here:   (1)  Mas Oyama reportedly fought bulls many times.  The question is, did the bulls have a sporting chance?  My guess would be yes, since there was supposedly an occasion in Mexico where Oyama was gored by a bull and nearly died.   (2)  Regarding your last statement, the question is, if those exhibitions took place now, and the bull had a sporting chance, would animal activists object?  It would probably be a resounding yes, since animal activists specifically target bullfighting (yes, your Spanish style bullfights).   Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com --- On Tue, 6/10/08, Onebofa@aol.com <Onebofa@aol.com> wrote: From: Onebofa@aol.com <Onebofa@aol.com> Subject: Re: [Eskrima] remember bruce tegner? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2008, 11:08 AM This topic raises some questions. If a person is going to fight a bull, what is the condition of the bull, what training has the bull received to fight a trained human fighter, and what are the rules of engagement? The reason I ask is that having seen rodeo bulls and bulls in Spanish style bull fights, it seems difficult to believe that any human being could get close enough for long enough to shear off a bulls horn with his bare hand. I think we would all find it interesting to watch a well conditioned, unhandicapped, karate master use his empty hand karate skills to fight a well conditioned, unhandicapped, bull that has been trained to fight humans with only his, the bull's, god given weapons, empty hands and feet against empty horns and hooves. In such a situation I doubt that any animal rights activists would have to offer much resistance. Cheers HM .aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:57:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Jon Broster To: Eskrima Digest Subject: [Eskrima] Mark Wiley seminar in Leicester Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I am pleased to announce that my teacher Mark Wiley, will be returning to Leicester to do a seminar on Cabales Serrada Escrima and other aspects of the FMA. Date: Sunday 27 July Time: 10am - 4pm Location: Urban Martial Arts, Leicester, England. Price: £40 in advance More info, contact: jonbroster@yahoo.co.uk Hope to see you there Jon --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest