Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 01:06:03 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #162 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2600 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: MAGELLAN VS LAPU LAPU (james jr. sy) 2. Pula-Pula (Lapu-lapu vs. Ferdi, M.) (GatPuno@aol.com) 3. Re: MAGELLAN VS LAPU LAPU (jay de leon) 4. Magellan Vs Lapu Lapu (jorge penafiel) 5. Re: Pula-Pula (Lapu-lapu vs. Ferdi, M.) (jay de leon) 6. Re: Magellan Vs Lapu Lapu--to kapatid jorge (jay de leon) 7. Re: Magellan, Lapu Lapu, and Pigafetta (Bart Hubbard) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 04:00:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] MAGELLAN VS LAPU LAPU To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I agree with Master Jay when he requested not to add another version to the story. It's not impossible for Magellan to have superb Fencing skills. Spain after all was a superpower at that time and some of the best Renaissance Fencers came from Spain. However, itis doubtful that his footwork was superb since Magellan injured his leg in a battle while in the service of Portugal. When he went to the Philippinesunder the service of Spain, Magellan already had limps between strides. This information has been omitted in most histories about Magellan which only focused on his exploits in the Philippines. If we go cherck on any schoo ltextbooks approved by the Philippine Department of Education, Culture,and Sports (DECS) wewill find none which adhere tosuch a version. It would help if you can ask your Pinoy sources where they got this version. James U. Sy Jr. Conceptual Martial Arts Society (CMAS), Inc. jo moran wrote: Dunno, wasn't there either..a little before my time. Maybe I should have elaborated ..always assumed this was, more or less, the accepted version: What I'd heard from Pinoys was the legend that says Ferdinand was quite good at Spanish-style fencing, and that his footwork, reach, etc., gave him an advantage over the king ('one-on one duel'). Well, Lapu Lapu, feigning fear and panic, began to retreat, finally turned, and ran toward the sea. Magellan in close persuit (probably thinking: "This is my day!"), chased him into the surf. Lapu Lapu ran deeper into the water. When they were thigh deep in the sea..Lapu Lapu turned toward the Captain with a smile on his face. In water of that depth, the footwork that had given that had given M. a thrusting advantage, was lost. Lapu Lapu then killed the Spaniard with a single blow from his bolo. Wondering if there are other variations on this story? Jo jay de leon wrote: You forgot the part about Lapu-Lapu beheading Magellan, holding his head up for everyone to see, and giving a speech about this is what will happen to all future invaders. It could have happened, since Pigafetta (the eyewitness) was kinda busy hightailing it out of there in one of the longboats and probably (mercifully) missed that scenario. Levity aside, remember that this account is a translation, and there could be factual errors in Pigafetta's account. We can assume that Pigafetta did not personally know Lapu-Lapu, and Lapu-Lapu could have been in that group of natives that finished off Magellan. Just a conjecture. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com --- On Fri, 6/20/08, jo moran wrote: From: jo moran Subject: [Eskrima] MAGELLAN VS LAPU LAPU To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Friday, June 20, 2008, 4:52 PM I'd always heard that Magellan was killed in a one-on-one duel with Lapu Lapu...not so! Included is link to an eye-witnes account. http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/magellan.htm _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 2 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:49:41 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Pula-Pula (Lapu-lapu vs. Ferdi, M.) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Everone, Just simple note: History is not occurate even from the eyewitness stand point of view. First, Pigafetta does not know "who is" Raja Pula-pula" or Datu Lapu-lapu that is. Second Ferdinand Magellan was killed by single "Arrow" , not even Kampilan, Kris or Pira or other muslim weapon. On Zaidy's book, it was said that the Spanish invaders was faced off in the shore of Mactan with the native warriors headed by Raja Pula-pula or Datu : Lapu-lapu, the fight was short and sweet, Magellan and his man was surprised attack and Magellan was hit by single arrow to his opening " Metal Chest Harness" by the armpit hitting his heart that caused him to die and later all invader was dicapitated and display on the shore like a barbecue on stick. (This is my vesrsion) Thirds: who cares if Lapu-lapu is not even there, that what the General do anyway in warsite. The General is usually from the distance, is not it protray on movie or tv, the the leader was on the fore front. A lot from here is military backround like I do, but we know that Marines and Army are the first one to deploy in any warsite. Now we just happy that Pigafetta at the least of his contribution to our history, he mentioned the head of the tribe Raja or Datu Lapu-lapu is already mentioned to them by Raja Humabon before even facing his group in the islan of Mactan. But yes Ray is right that Lapu-lapu migh not even there, since all of this witing of Pigafetta is total "Assuming only": that he was there. But the fact that Raja or Datu Lapu-lapu is the head of the tribes that killed the greatest explorer Ferdinand Magelllan or (Fernando de Magallanes) he was credited to fallen Magellan . Look back on our modern history, US. General McArthur, he is our Philippine General, our Governor and our Hero to free Philippines in World War II, he is the General incharge and because of this he was credited to free us, we Filipino forever thankful and mentioned this part of the history to our new generation Pinoy, not only to mark the independence, but to learn lesson from the fast. Same as Raja Lapu-lapu he stand for his right and his group thedepent their tribal land and peoples, who care if their a chance that he might not even him who killed Magellan, the question is, Do you know If Lapu-lapu knows Ferdinand Magellan prior or their invasion of Mactan? Nothing in the history said that Lapu-lapu knows him, nor Magellan knows Lapu-lapu, they never met yet, that was the first time he will face him, by the request of Raja Humabon and Raja Baginda, beside we dont even know if all of this is truth or heresay only.. just my 2 cent I am just readers not historian too, this is just my personal upinion on the topic. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com > > From: jo moran > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] MAGELLAN VS LAPU LAPU > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 3:06 AM > > Dunno, wasn't there either..a little before my time. Maybe I should have > elaborated ..always assumed this was, more or less, the accepted version: > >   What I'd heard from  Pinoys was the legend that says Ferdinand was quite > good at Spanish-style fencing, and that his footwork, reach, etc., gave him > an > advantage over the king ('one-on one duel'). Well, Lapu Lapu, feigning > fear and panic, began to retreat, finally turned, and ran toward the sea. > Magellan in close persuit (probably thinking: "This is my day!"), > chased him into the surf. Lapu Lapu ran deeper into the water. When they > were > thigh deep in the sea..Lapu Lapu turned toward the Captain with a smile on > his > face. In water of that depth, the footwork that had given that had given M. > a > thrusting advantage, was lost. Lapu Lapu then killed the Spaniard with a > single > blow from his bolo. > >   Wondering if there are other variations on this story? > >    Jo > > > > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list,  2600 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: Ray > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] MAGELLAN VS LAPU LAPU > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:50:28 -0700 > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > We don't even know if LapuLapu was present at or even witnessed the  > event.  His men were in the thick of it, but was he?  We'll never  > know.  Most likely he viewed the battle, but did not directly  > participate. > > Ray Terry > EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net > > ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 08:35:02 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] MAGELLAN VS LAPU LAPU To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi James:   The point is, anybody can have his version, and unless you can substantiate it with an authenticated historical document, it is just as good as any movie script floating around.   Historians have pointed out to take Pigafetta's chronicles with a grain of salt.  After all, he was writing for a public audience then (including his benefactor the queen) and his writing could have been slanted.    For example, he said they were attacked by a force of 1500 men.  If so, it should have taken a matter of minutes for the natives to finish the Spaniards off (49 men on shore).  Only eight Spaniards were actually killed, including Magellan and his bastard son.   One can even conclude that either the natives were inept or the Spaniards fought with extraordinary skill and courage.  Which may be what Pigafetta wanted to portray.   See my article. http://www.filipinofightingartsintl.com/Publications/history/ferdinand-magell an.html   James also brings out an important point.  Some people imagine that Magellan was a fish out of water for engaging in a land fight.  Not so.  Magellan was a battle-hardened and decorated commander, hero of many Portuguese battles (on land).   Magellan also had at this disposal, 300 of Humabon's warriors.  He told them not to join the battle but watch the Spaniards fight.   As I pose in my article, so what really happened? Was Magellan suckered in or set up?  Was Magellan just careless that day?  Maybe Humabon set him up just to see how good the Spaniards really were.   I will see if I can communicate the answer to the forum from the Elysium Fields.   Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com   --- On Sun, 6/22/08, james jr. sy wrote: From: james jr. sy Subject: Re: [Eskrima] MAGELLAN VS LAPU LAPU To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 4:00 AM I agree with Master Jay when he requested not to add another version to the story. It's not impossible for Magellan to have superb Fencing skills. Spain after all was a superpower at that time and some of the best Renaissance Fencers came from Spain. However, itis doubtful that his footwork was superb since Magellan injured his leg in a battle while in the service of Portugal. When he went to the Philippinesunder the service of Spain, Magellan already had limps between strides. This information has been omitted in most histories about Magellan which only focused on his exploits in the Philippines. If we go cherck on any schoo ltextbooks approved by the Philippine Department of Education, Culture,and Sports (DECS) wewill find none which adhere tosuch a version. It would help if you can ask your Pinoy sources where they got this version. James U. Sy Jr. Conceptual Martial Arts Society (CMAS), Inc. jo moran wrote: Dunno, wasn't there either..a little before my time. Maybe I should have elaborated ..always assumed this was, more or less, the accepted version: What I'd heard from Pinoys was the legend that says Ferdinand was quite good at Spanish-style fencing, and that his footwork, reach, etc., gave him an advantage over the king ('one-on one duel'). Well, Lapu Lapu, feigning fear and panic, began to retreat, finally turned, and ran toward the sea. Magellan in close persuit (probably thinking: "This is my day!"), chased him into the surf. Lapu Lapu ran deeper into the water. When they were thigh deep in the sea..Lapu Lapu turned toward the Captain with a smile on his face. In water of that depth, the footwork that had given that had given M. a thrusting advantage, was lost. Lapu Lapu then killed the Spaniard with a single blow from his bolo. Wondering if there are other variations on this story? Jo jay de leon wrote: You forgot the part about Lapu-Lapu beheading Magellan, holding his head up for everyone to see, and giving a speech about this is what will happen to all future invaders. It could have happened, since Pigafetta (the eyewitness) was kinda busy hightailing it out of there in one of the longboats and probably (mercifully) missed that scenario. Levity aside, remember that this account is a translation, and there could be factual errors in Pigafetta's account. We can assume that Pigafetta did not personally know Lapu-Lapu, and Lapu-Lapu could have been in that group of natives that finished off Magellan. Just a conjecture. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com --- On Fri, 6/20/08, jo moran wrote: From: jo moran Subject: [Eskrima] MAGELLAN VS LAPU LAPU To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Friday, June 20, 2008, 4:52 PM I'd always heard that Magellan was killed in a one-on-one duel with Lapu Lapu...not so! Included is link to an eye-witnes account. http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/magellan.htm _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "jorge penafiel" To: Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:39:19 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Magellan Vs Lapu Lapu Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Magellan VS Lapu Lapu- oh well, whatever the factual/believable version of what had happened that eventful day in Mactan, is likened to watching a movie were their are several choices one can picked for the ending. What's history was that a world explorer/conqueror finally meet his fate in the hands of a lowly native chieftain from a small obscure island somewhere. By all accounts, Magellan's world/battle record resume was outwitted, outnumbered, outfought, outslugged, outetc., and so LOST!! End of story. Pigafetta,,,the chronicler was lucky to returned home and reported/told his version of the event - "true or fudged" who knows....Moral of the story - don't just go about pist-off any man who is minding his business and for all you know turns out a "great warrior at that". Lapu Lapu for winning the battle got immortalized by having a delicious/expensive "FISH" named after him - Not bad! Magellan - the "LURE", got faulted for instigating and losing the battle. So, history books had him as one of those world braggadocio conqueror/discoverer who was just a man afterall behind his armor and fancy weapons in battle. My thoughts .. jorge penafiel --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:16:12 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Pula-Pula (Lapu-lapu vs. Ferdi, M.) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kapatid Abon:   Good to see you post.  Frankly, I have forgotten Zaide's version by now.  Too many intervening years and too many blows to the head, lol.   Ray and I were just having fun speculating on Lapu-Lapu's participation/non-participation in the battle.  Slow news day, you know.   Hope you are well, and busy with your upcoming seminars.   Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com --- On Sun, 6/22/08, GatPuno@aol.com wrote: From: GatPuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Pula-Pula (Lapu-lapu vs. Ferdi, M.) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 6:49 AM Hello Everone, Just simple note: History is not occurate even from the eyewitness stand point of view. First, Pigafetta does not know "who is" Raja Pula-pula" or Datu Lapu-lapu that is. Second Ferdinand Magellan was killed by single "Arrow" , not even Kampilan, Kris or Pira or other muslim weapon. On Zaidy's book, it was said that the Spanish invaders was faced off in the shore of Mactan with the native warriors headed by Raja Pula-pula or Datu : Lapu-lapu, the fight was short and sweet, Magellan and his man was surprised attack and Magellan was hit by single arrow to his opening " Metal Chest Harness" by the armpit hitting his heart that caused him to die and later all invader was dicapitated and display on the shore like a barbecue on stick. (This is my vesrsion) Thirds: who cares if Lapu-lapu is not even there, that what the General do anyway in warsite. The General is usually from the distance, is not it protray on movie or tv, the the leader was on the fore front. A lot from here is military backround like I do, but we know that Marines and Army are the first one to deploy in any warsite. Now we just happy that Pigafetta at the least of his contribution to our history, he mentioned the head of the tribe Raja or Datu Lapu-lapu is already mentioned to them by Raja Humabon before even facing his group in the islan of Mactan. But yes Ray is right that Lapu-lapu migh not even there, since all of this witing of Pigafetta is total "Assuming only": that he was there. But the fact that Raja or Datu Lapu-lapu is the head of the tribes that killed the greatest explorer Ferdinand Magelllan or (Fernando de Magallanes) he was credited to fallen Magellan . Look back on our modern history, US. General McArthur, he is our Philippine General, our Governor and our Hero to free Philippines in World War II, he is the General incharge and because of this he was credited to free us, we Filipino forever thankful and mentioned this part of the history to our new generation Pinoy, not only to mark the independence, but to learn lesson from the fast. Same as Raja Lapu-lapu he stand for his right and his group thedepent their tribal land and peoples, who care if their a chance that he might not even him who killed Magellan, the question is, Do you know If Lapu-lapu knows Ferdinand Magellan prior or their invasion of Mactan? Nothing in the history said that Lapu-lapu knows him, nor Magellan knows Lapu-lapu, they never met yet, that was the first time he will face him, by the request of Raja Humabon and Raja Baginda, beside we dont even know if all of this is truth or heresay only.. just my 2 cent I am just readers not historian too, this is just my personal upinion on the topic. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com was present at or even witnessed the  > event.  His men were in the thick of it, but was he?  We'll never  > know.  Most likely he viewed the battle, but did not directly  > participate. > > Ray Terry > EskrimaDigest@sbcglobal.net > > ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 13:58:29 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Magellan Vs Lapu Lapu--to kapatid jorge To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kapatid Jorge:   nice of you to put in your 2 centimo.   we do not know magellan's character, or his motivation for his Mactan incursion.  we know that he was a professional soldier, an adventurer and presumably an ambitious and courageous man.  if he had survived the voyage, he would have been the first man to circumnavigate the globe.  all the honors and riches that he sought would have been his.   but alas, his miscalculation led to his untimely demise at the hands of a hero whose name would always remind us of a very delicious fish.   in my article, i had the same conclusion you did-- never cross cutlasses with a cebuano (bisayan) arnisador.  you might not get home to tell about it.   Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com --- On Sun, 6/22/08, jorge penafiel wrote: From: jorge penafiel Subject: [Eskrima] Magellan Vs Lapu Lapu To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:39 AM Magellan VS Lapu Lapu- oh well, whatever the factual/believable version of what had happened that eventful day in Mactan, is likened to watching a movie were their are several choices one can picked for the ending. What's history was that a world explorer/conqueror finally meet his fate in the hands of a lowly native chieftain from a small obscure island somewhere. By all accounts, Magellan's world/battle record resume was outwitted, outnumbered, outfought, outslugged, outetc., and so LOST!! End of story. Pigafetta,,,the chronicler was lucky to returned home and reported/told his version of the event - "true or fudged" who knows....Moral of the story - don't just go about pist-off any man who is minding his business and for all you know turns out a "great warrior at that". Lapu Lapu for winning the battle got immortalized by having a delicious/expensive "FISH" named after him - Not bad! Magellan - the "LURE", got faulted for instigating and losing the battle. So, history books had him as one of those world braggadocio conqueror/discoverer who was just a man afterall behind his armor and fancy weapons in battle. My thoughts .. jorge penafiel _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Bart Hubbard To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Magellan, Lapu Lapu, and Pigafetta Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey There, It's been a LOONG time since I've posted. I've been around but hanging back. I did a lot of research on this and there is a conflict between the folk/oral history of Mactan and the written history of the Europeans. Both in my opinion have some believability issues, but I favor the version by Pigafetta in the means of Magellan's death. The reason being is that it was in no way glorious, in fact it's a might embarrassing for Magellan. It's also totally realistic. According to Pigafetta, who's account is the only written version, Magellan was killed by a mass of warriors while knee deep in the water off of Mactan island. He and several of his men fought for about 4 hours sloshing through the water and mud. Magellan lost his polearm in the body of one of the Filipinos he fought as he was fleeing back to his ships. He reached for his sword but was unable to draw it fast enough. He was cut on the leg by a Filipino and when he fell forward in the water he was stuck and hacked to death by the mass of Filipino pursuers with spears and scimitars. It was serial one on one combat at best while he was fighting. But his ultimate demise was a group effort. I've got a link to a pdf of the original Italian version available here: http://www.tisoy.net/cdp/files/pigafetta.pdf The Italian is old so you have to do some work translating it. It's a tad flowery here and there, but not too tough if you've got some knowledge of the language or a background in Latin. This account also details other things, like Magellan ordering the torching of a village and his mistakes in the logistics and strategy of his flanking maneuvers. Overall, it's believable because it's realistic given the tactics and European mindset of the time. Anyway, read the account and make the judgment for yourselves. Pigafetta was the official historian of the circumnavigation, but his officialness came post facto. His account was more of a diary or a message to be put in a bottle so that if they all died, their story would hopefully be saved and remembered. What I personally discovered by researching this was how it had absolutely nothing to do with my effectiveness in the FMA. In general I found that the modern FMA doesn't deal much with defending against volleys of arrows and tossed javelins while knee deep in muddy seawater and encased in 70 pounds of iron armor plating while trying to run into cannon range in 95 degree heat with a horde of angry people whose village I'd just burned in hot pursuit. All it turned out to me to be was an interesting and colorful sidenote. It doesn't take much in the way of skill for 40 or so armed men to kill one man who was slow on the draw. Anyway, just my thoughts. Be cool. Bart www.tisoy.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest