Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 02:48:21 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #199 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2600 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Salutation (jay de leon) 2. re: The Wasp Injection Knife (Marc MacYoung) 3. RE: Salutation (Felipe Jocano) 4. Pekiti-Tirsia videos (william mcgrath) 5. "Kali" Exposed (Talibung Antike) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 18:36:21 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Salutation To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net bot:   no fist bumps?   jay de leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com --- On Sat, 8/2/08, Felipe Jocano wrote: From: Felipe Jocano Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Salutation To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 3:06 AM In addition to Joe's post below, I'd like to add a few more details: One reason for not bowing formally (in most systems, exceptions as noted below) is pragmatic: as long as the other guy is also holding a weapon in his/her hand, you're likely to get whacked on the head if you look down as in bowing. A nod is usually enough. Another reason for kneeling on one leg is that the hand movements involve taking the teacher's hand and placing it on your forehead. This latter is a common sign of respect among many cultural groups all over the archipelago. In our group's case, the reason for doing our salute (fist over chest) is as a remembrance of the revolutionary background of our country: Supposedly, one of the many recognition signs of the Katipunan (the revolutionary group working against the Spanish in the 19th century during the last years of the Spanish colonial regime) was to take one's hat off and place it against the chest when passing a possible fellow member on the street. When done naturally, it looks quite innocent - except to those in the know. If the other party were a fellow revolutionary, then he (if male) would return the gesture. If it were not returned, then nothing would come of it. It should be noted that in the oral histories of many FMA, the connection to the revolution against the Spanish is always mentioned. Caveat: remember I used the word supposedly. Whether or not this little vignette is true depends on much research into 19th century Philippines, especially life in Manila. There are other groups which have an elaborately choreographed salute, and in the case of one of my teachers, a simple handshake was enough. Bot Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 22:10:22 -0600 Organization: No Nonsense Self-Defense Subject: [Eskrima] re: The Wasp Injection Knife Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >> Anyone seen the Wasp Injection Knife yet? I >> think its high >> price will keep >> them off the streets and out of mainstream use. >> >> "The Wasp Injection Knife - Originally designed >> to >> kill sharks and bears, >> the Wasp Knife is equally effective on humans >> with its >> cartridge of >> compressed gas inside. Once inserted into its >> victim, it >> shoots out enough >> gas to create a frozen cavity inside the body >> the size of a >> basketball, >> killing the poor soul by instantly freezing >> internal >> organs." >> >> http://www.waspknife.com/about.php This is what I wrote that was posted on LineOfDuty.com police blotter ****************** There is a phenomenon out there that I call "Violence Geeks." They are a group of individuals who are fixated on the 'idea' of violence. At the same time they are terrified by being victims of actual violence. They are an ugly blend of anger, aggressiveness, self-loathing, fear and paranoia. On the plus side their fear keeps them in check. On the negative, they are a case of mens rea addressed "To whom it may concern." In their fascination with violence they are always looking for a guaranteed/ultimate/never-fail technique/tool/secret. That one single item or fighting system that will stop the fantasy beserk, 350 pound biker on meth that that they fear will attack them. This imaginary boogy man is the excuse to equip themselves like this. The WASP -- which has no functional purpose outside their own head -- is exactly the kind of item that attracts their dysfunctional attention. Having both been an outdoorsman and a diver, knives are tools. The kinds of dangers you'll face in either environment are not going to be sucessfully dealt with using a knife ... or at least not before it kills you. The WASP is designed to be sold to individuals who are fixated on using it on humans. ***************************** That thing is a gear queer's wet dream. It doesn't matter if it hits the streets or not. The thing is a fantasy assassin's tool. And when pressed I can guarantee you the company will release it's records to the police so you know who's going to be knocking on your door if you use it on someone. M --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 01:52:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Salutation To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi manong jay, hehehehehe, which version, the short or the long one? ;-) that's usually done before the salutation :-) i call it the secret handshake that everyone can see :-) bot --- On Sun, 8/3/08, jay de leon wrote: > From: jay de leon > Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Salutation > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 9:36 AM > bot: >   > no fist bumps? >   > jay de leon > www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com > > --- On Sat, 8/2/08, Felipe Jocano > wrote: > > From: Felipe Jocano > Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Salutation > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 3:06 AM > > In addition to Joe's post below, I'd like to add a > few more details: > One reason for not bowing formally (in most systems, > exceptions as noted > below) > is pragmatic: as long as the other guy is also holding a > weapon in his/her > hand, > you're likely to get whacked on the head if you look > down as in bowing. A > nod is usually enough. > Another reason for kneeling on one leg is that the hand > movements involve > taking the teacher's hand and placing it on your > forehead. This latter is a > common sign of respect among many cultural groups all over > the archipelago. > In our group's case, the reason for doing our salute > (fist over chest) is > as a remembrance of the revolutionary background of our > country: Supposedly, > one > of the many recognition signs of the Katipunan (the > revolutionary group > working > against the Spanish in the 19th century during the last > years of the Spanish > colonial regime) was to take one's hat off and place it > against the chest > when passing a possible fellow member on the street. When > done naturally, it > looks quite innocent - except to those in the know. If the > other party were a > fellow revolutionary, then he (if male) would return the > gesture. If it were > not > returned, then nothing would come of it. It should be noted > that in the oral > histories of many FMA, the connection to the revolution > against the Spanish > is > always mentioned. > Caveat: remember I used the word supposedly. Whether or not > this little > vignette is true depends on much research into 19th century > Philippines, > especially life in Manila. > There are other groups which have an elaborately > choreographed salute, and in > the case of one of my teachers, a simple handshake was > enough. > > Bot > > > Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 22:03:37 -0700 (PDT) From: william mcgrath To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Pekiti-Tirsia videos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Guys, I've just added three new videos to my YouTube channel. They show basic techniques in Pekiti-Tirsia single stick. To view these videos, please visit: http://www.youtube.com/user/TuhonBillMcg Regards, Bill McGrath www.TheSwordofFire.com www.pekiti.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 09:52:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Talibung Antike To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] "Kali" Exposed Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Is “Kali” appropriate to describe an indigenous blade based Filipino Martial Arts?   True blooded genuine Eskrimadores in the island of Panay from the coastal plains to the hinterlands of Aklan, Capiz, Iloilo and Antique who are mostly if not all are World War II underground guerrilla fighters pitted their craft using "Talibungs", “Sanduko” and "Ginuntings" against the Japanese Samurais and Bayonets in hand to hand combat when they ran out of bullets. One will never hear a word "Kali" from any of them that alludes to fighting whether unarmed or armed confrontation where sticks, spears, or bladed weapons are used. It should be noted that the word "Kali" in the major languages of Panay and Negros (Hiligaynon and Kiniray-a) means "to dig" which refers to a farming or harvesting activity when one has to dig something from the ground like: "to dig camote=kali camote", "dig peanuts=kali mani", "dig gabi=kali gabi". The word in itself has no reference to fighting at all whatsoever. All these veteran fighters and war survivors refers to their craft as "Eskrima, or the act of "Eskrimahay" which refers to skirmish, a confrontational exchange of blows/attacks, offense/ defense- it may be used outside the context of physical combat, as in "eskrimahay ka tinaga" which means a fierce verbal exchange, and may also refer to the use of weapons like: "baston, talibung, binangon, ginunting, sanduko, lantip, sanggot, espading, daga, lugod, bahi, bugsay, tungkod, yaming, tuwang-tuwangan, garab, kaw-it, hal-o, etc". The experts and practitioners of these indigenous martial arts systems are either called “Eskrimador” or “Bastonero” not “Kalista”, “Kalidor” nor “Kalinero”. The claim that the word “Kali” came from the Muslim chieftains that established a colony in Kalibo, Aklan — (sometimes cited as the origin of the name "Kali") is very wrong and has no historical basis at all. The official history of Kalibo on record states that, Kalibo is  a town in Aklan, founded by settlers from Malaysia who came with Datu Bangkaya (The Muslims had never been successful in conquering Panay Island despite relentless attempts even during Spanish times). Upon the arrival of the Spaniards, Madianos (Madyanos) is the primitive Pre-Hispanic name of Kalibo. It was found to be the first place in Aklan with houses grouped together, the inhabitants thereof, already having some form of political organization. How Kalibo got its present name was because of a mass Christening of One Thousand (1,000) natives in “Madianos” in May, 1566, by a Spanish priest, who came with Adelantado Don Miguel Lopez de Legaspi. One thousand (1,000) is written in the Aklan dialect as "ISA KA LIBO", "SANG LIBO", and in order to commemorate and perpetuate this historical fact, the name “Calibo”, a contraction derivative of these three words in the Aklan dialect, was given to the town instead of “MADIANOS”. From year 1566, “CALIBO” was the official name used up to about 1929. Upon the recommendation of the Committee on Geographical Names, the official name “KALIBO” was finally adopted. If Kali as a blade based fighting system is to be alluded to the word "Kalis", it is even farther from the true meaning of the Hiligaynon word "Kalis". “Kalis” in Hiligaynon and Kiniray-a is a verb which means “to scrape off” and if used as a noun it refers to the straight edged wooden or bamboo slat used to swipe the excess grains being measured. The word “Kalis” is a measuring device or activity to ensure accuracy of measurement where the excess are scraped off or leveled out or "kalison" using a "kalis" before counting it as one full unit volume. Traditionally the grains or farm produce like: rice, corn, monggo, sugar, salt, beans, etc are quantified based on traditional volumetric measuring containers like: "ganta or gantangan" (25 gantas = 1 sack), wooden box "panega" (3 panegas=1 sack), "tabig", and "tabungos".   (Note: The use of kilograms in measuring plant or farm products is a relatively recent development when the Philippines adopted the metric system during the 1980s)   Hence, based on the aforementioned elucidations the use of the word "Kali" parallel with Arnis and Eskrima in Filipino Martial Arts if it has to be used at all is absurd and very etiologically inappropriate. Example: you "Kali" your opponent! That would mean "you DIG your opponent!" or say: Lets practice "Kali" that would mean "Lets practice DIGGING"   If you KALI your opponent, you DIG your opponent! So he must have been buried, must have been dead a long time ago or a victim of a land slide! That would be the most absurd FMA indeed!   The languages used in Negros Island are "Hiligaynon" (most of Negros Occidental close to Panay Island) and "Bisaya or Cebuano" (Negros Oriental close to Cebu Island). These languages are influences brought by migrants from both islands as workers in the Haciendas of Negros mostly owned by the Hacienderos who are landed elite migrants from Jaro, Iloilo City. If there is no KALI in Cebu Island nor in Panay Island, then claiming KALI as indigenous blade based fighting arts of Panay Island brought to Negros Island is one of the greatest frauds that ever plagued the Filipino Martial Arts History and Martial Arts World as a whole.   It is high time to "KALI" deeper= to "DIG" deeper and ferret out the "TRUTH" about “KALI” as clearly it has no rightful place in the Filipino Martial Arts World historically and etiologically.   This is a big challenge to the well meaning Filipino Martial Arts enthusiasts, avid practitioners, scholars, researchers & historians to start retracing back and DIG deeper into the true Filipino Martial Arts History.... there are still lots to DIG out (KALI) into the open here in PANAY island… the center of the Philippines.   Welcome to PANAY Island PHILIPPINES!   “Talibung Antike” La Paz Plaza, Iloilo City Philippines --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest