Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 02:48:21 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #206 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2600 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Arnis or Escrima in NYC ?? (Kel620@aol.com) 2. Kali-mit bumalik nito, be it. (GatPuno@aol.com) 3. Kali (Eternal IV) 4. Re: "Kali" Exposed (Felipe Jocano) 5. Re: KALI - the similarities (Bill Debuque) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Kel620@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 19:23:51 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net CC: tomawallaikido@earthlink.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Arnis or Escrima in NYC ?? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Modern Arnis Domog (Village Martial Arts) 188 East 3rd. Street(betw. Ave. A & B) New York, NY 10009 (212) 614-3250 Head Instructor: Guro Doug Pierre The F train to 2nd. Ave., or the 6 train to Bleecker Street are the closest stops. Kelvin Williams **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) --__--__-- Message: 2 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 21:11:12 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Kali-mit bumalik nito, be it. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net HI to everyone, I just want to let everyone knows I am still alive, just little bit quite and busy a bit at work. Nice try everyone, just remember "Kali" is now accepted term, what else you want to prove? "Kali-mutan" na (forget about it), is accepted term as FMA "Kali-liit" na bagay (is just a small thing), let move on "Cool na kung Cool", it has been "Kali-tuhan" (mix-up), it has been "nag-Kali-bakan" (insult each other), Kali-bangan (entertain each other), "Kali-kuan" ng paliwanag (Derailed the meaning), and it a never ending topic, So I just want to talk about the effectiveness of the arts and how can we learn from each other. Okay, it in Malaysa, or even in Indonesia, but the fact the matter is Malaysia and other country is not Philippines. So let it go, the world is already accepted "KALI" as term for FMA. Is that cool? Kali-mit (often times) brought to the topic, and is just get heat up, and it's does not a new term anymore, we know, the world know already.. Un-less you will stand that your Kali is better than Arnis and Eskrima, then we have something to talk about more that words. Mga Kapatid (all brothers) Kali-pi (Kabayan), Kali-ngkingan (pingki finger) lamang ito (this is just a small part only) of our problem, we need to be united, to move forward with this. If we want to become successfull and more accepted Martial world wide, we need to talk about more fruitful plan, like support each other tournaments, seminar, and networking each. Kali -cool, Arnis -cool too -Eskrima-even cooler, other term uniquely cooler.. We are all one body, we are all FMA, we promote and love this arts.. un-less you are only here to stir us all.. and tell you we need you too, without you list is lonely, just hurt me seeing "FMA vs FMA" is history repeat itself again, the Spaniards used this tactic to us Filipino tribes vs. Filipino tribes to conquered Filipino.. Here in the US, or other country Filipino tago then Filipino Turo.. Tellmeis Kali techniques is better that Arnis or Eskrima? If so, I want to learn from you, but first proved it? Kali-kutan ko (me being naughty) Kali-mitan (often times) got me in troubles. But Kali-nangan ko sa Arnis (my knowledge in "Arnis" saved my life all the time. Kali-lilibing ko lamang (I just burried) ang tulog kong damdamin (my sleepy feelings), Kali-bangan ko ang hamon ( my amusement is challenges), kung Kali-pi ang taya (if my bothers) are the beneficiary, I dont mind being the shield (Arnis).. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************** Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Eternal IV To: Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 01:45:59 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Kali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Konnichi wa, Reading all this talk about the word Kali makes me want to point out a story Sensei told me... He was traveling in the Philippines with his teacher. They came to their destination and wanted to find somewhere where they could train, they asked a man in the town: "Does anyone do Kali here?" The man laughed and replied: "Everyone do Kali here!" Turns out Kali meant to do a sh*t. Which everyone did lol. Peace to all, Scott _________________________________________________________________ Are you paid what you're worth? Find out: SEEK Salary Centre http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fc areer%2Dresources%2Fsalary%2Dcentre%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Asc%3Anine%3A0% 3Ahot%3Atext&_t=764565661&_r=OCT07_endtext_salary&_m=EXT --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 23:50:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] "Kali" Exposed To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all; In view of Talibung Antike's original post on this topic (and also since this topic has come up again) I looked up our local dictionaries and this is what I found: Panganiban Tagalog-English Thesaurus (sorry forgot to get the date of publication) kali - Hiligaynon, Tagalog. - excavated canal, ditch kalis - Spanish. noun. (military) sword, saber. Synonyms - espada, sable, plorete, kris. Also - chalice, kopa in Kapampangan, Maranaw, Tagalog - scraped clean, cf. walis, linis kalisin - to scrape with a stick broom pangkalis - long handled stick broom English, Leo James. (1986). Tagalog-English Dictionary. Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer. (distributed by National Bookstore) No entry for kali exists in Fr. English's opus, but there are entries for kalis: kalis - Spanish (caliz) noun (1) sword, saber; (2) chalice; (3) figure of speech - a cup of sorrow kalis (adjective) - clean, scraped clean by a long-handled broom kalisin - scrape off the bristles of pigs after slaughter and scalding. Hmm. Given the mixture of Spanish words in many Philippine languages, this is interesting. Bot --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Talibung Antike wrote: > From: Talibung Antike > Subject: [Eskrima] "Kali" Exposed > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 12:52 AM > Is “Kali” appropriate to describe an indigenous blade > based Filipino Martial > Arts? > > > > True blooded genuine Eskrimadores > in the island of Panay from the coastal plains to the > hinterlands of Aklan, > Capiz, > Iloilo and Antique who are mostly if not all are World War > II underground > guerrilla fighters pitted their craft using > "Talibungs", “Sanduko” > and "Ginuntings" against the Japanese Samurais > and Bayonets in hand > to hand combat when they ran out of bullets. One will never > hear a word > "Kali" from any of them that alludes to fighting > whether unarmed or > armed confrontation where sticks, spears, or bladed weapons > are used. It > should > be noted that the word "Kali" in the major > languages of Panay and Negros > (Hiligaynon and Kiniray-a) means "to > dig" which refers to a farming or harvesting activity > when one has to dig > something from the ground like: "to dig camote=kali > camote", > "dig peanuts=kali mani", "dig gabi=kali > gabi". The word in > itself has no reference to fighting at all whatsoever. All > these veteran > fighters and war survivors refers to their craft as > "Eskrima, or the act > of "Eskrimahay" which refers to skirmish, a > confrontational exchange > of blows/attacks, offense/ defense- it may be used outside > the context of > physical combat, as in "eskrimahay ka tinaga" > which means a fierce > verbal exchange, and may also refer to the use of weapons > like: "baston, > talibung, binangon, ginunting, sanduko, lantip, sanggot, > espading, daga, > lugod, > bahi, bugsay, tungkod, yaming, tuwang-tuwangan, garab, > kaw-it, hal-o, > etc". The experts and practitioners of these > indigenous martial arts > systems are either called “Eskrimador” or > “Bastonero” not “Kalista”, > “Kalidor” > nor “Kalinero”. > > > The claim that the word “Kali” came from the > Muslim chieftains that established a colony in Kalibo, > Aklan — (sometimes > cited > as the origin of the name "Kali") is very wrong > and has no historical > basis at all. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 22:42:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Debuque Subject: Re: [Eskrima] KALI - the similarities To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Tim! While I made the comment half in jest, here are possible leads for the "Greekconnection" of "KALI"you are looking for. Wikipedia on the etymology of KALI: "KALI is the feminine ofKALA "black, dark coloured" (per Panini 4.1.42). It appears as the name of a form of Durga in Mahabharata 4.195, and as the name of an evil female spirit in Harivamsa 11552. The homonymousKALA "appointed time", which depending on context can mean "death", is distinct fromKALA "black", but became associated through folk etymology. The association is seen in a passage from the Mahbhrata, depicting a female figure who carries away the spirits of slain warriors and animals." Wikipedia on the Indo-European Language Family: "The Indo-European languages comprise a family of several hundred related languages and dialects, including most of the major languages of Europe, the Iranian plateau (Southwest Asia), much of Central Asia and the Indian subcontinent (South Asia). The Indo-European (Indo refers to the Indian subcontinent, since geographically the language group spreads from Europe in the west to India in the east) group has the largest numbers of speakers of the recognised families of languages in the world today, with its languages spoken by approximately three billion native speakers." "Suggestions of similarities between Indian and European languages began to be made by European visitors to India in the sixteenth century. In 1583 Thomas Stephens, an English Jesuit missionary in Goa, noted similarities between Indian languages, specifically Konkani, and Greek and Latin. These observations were included in a letter to his brother which was not published until the twentieth century." --- On Thu, 8/7/08, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > And again, "KALIgrapi" is basically all > about "Hand Movements". This brings > us all back to Dan Inosanto's "KAmot LIhok" > explanation. are you serious? calligraphy is a greek word. it's a completely different language family, and has nothing at all to do with how you say 'time(s)' in malay. people stretch way too far to invent history and meanings for kali. it sounds cool- use it. your teacher used it- use it. don't play amateur etymologist and invent connections where there are none. tim --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest