Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:48:21 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #231 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2600 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Challenges/Testing (2@msfencing.org) 2. Arnis Presas Style and Balisong by Ernesto Presas. (Alex France) 3. Charity FMA events (GatPuno@aol.com) 4. RE: To Jay De Leon (W S) 5. Re: FMAers helping each other (Ray) 6. Charity seminars follow up (william mcgrath) 7. 4th FMA Festival in Boracay (jay de leon) 8. Charity shindig (craftydog@dogbrothers.com) 9. Re: Ternate, Cavite - the documented entry point of Tjakalele? (tim) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: <2@msfencing.org> To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Challenges/Testing Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:57:51 -0500 Organization: Mississippi Academy of Arms Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Master Baet, >> This is actually not a bad idea, considering you thought of it, I'm not sure how to read that sentence. The way it is written it sounds like you are saying you don’t think I'm capable of coming up with good ideas. I hope you don’t think that badly of me. >> I would love to see how sharp their skills more than the sharpness of their >> mouth and thought. Me too, which was my point. >> The problem to your challeges is a lot of this Filipino Master that talking >> is in the Philippines and its take a lot of money to come here in US, if they >> will be able to get the Visa too. Actually I was referring to the Western Martial Artists who are saying that their Western Style is better than the FMA style. I think it is incumbent upon the Western Martial Artists who are making these claims of superiority to prove it by backing up their claims or cease and desist making unsubstantiated claims. They should pay their own way to go to the Filipino Martial Artists. Not the other way around. >> Now if your not serious dont even used someone else parade. I don’t understand what you mean by that sentence. >> I am not accepting your challenge since I am not the one whom you talking >> about. I wasn’t challenging you Master Baet. Actually I wasn’t challenging anyone since I am not one of those persons who claim their Western Swordsmanship is superior to FMA. I'm not that naïve. I see good and useful techniques in several different styles of martial arts, which is why I have a desire to learn FMA. I was suggesting that the Western Martial Artists who are making claims of superiority should challenge Filipino Martial Artists. I think the ones doing the bragging should be the ones doing the challenging to prove their statements. >> Sport is always a sports, but we learn the arts that not designed to sports, >> and no matter how good you are in sports that not proved nothing till you face >> "Black Angel".. I whole heartedly agree. The rules and arbitrary conventions established in tournaments turn martial arts into sports in which they loose many of their self-defense effectiveness in the interest of scoring points by playing to the rules. But still, in training and testing your martial art skills there is a limit to what you can do legally and there is also a limit to the amount of damage a person is willing to take to his body in the process of learning and testing his martial. I think few men these days, even if they knew there would be no legal implications, are willing to fight to the death simply to prove their style is superior. In martial arts training there is a continuum with safety on one end and realism on the other end. The further you move toward safety (rules, safe weapons, padding) the less realistic (self-defense-wise) a martial art becomes and the further you move toward realism the less safe a martial art becomes. In training and testing our skills we have to find the appropriate balance between the need for safety and the need for realism. That is why I admire the Dog Brothers. They have been taking the art further towards realism on the safety/realism continuum. This has given them a better understanding of what works in a more realistic situation. However, I think even they would admit that even the rule "You must remain friends at the end of the day" causes some participants to use a bit more self-control during fighting and probably tone down the amount of force they use or refrain form using certain techniques which they might otherwise use in a real life or deaths self-defense situation. These are just my thoughts and as scripture says a "wise man is always willing to accept correction" so I am willing to defer to the Masters and fighters on this list who have more experience and knowledge than I. And when it comes to FMA I am sure that is most everyone on this list. >> But i only voice my thought of the situation and your malice words towards >> them. Need to step forward and show my support to all Filipino Master engage >> in this topics. You did misunderstand my posting if you think I harbor malice toward any Filipino Masters or any Western Masters for that matter. I have no malice in my heart towards any man. >> Salamat, your madly deeply fanatic Filipino (Pinoy), I don’t always understand everything you write, but I do enjoy reading your posts and tend to agree with most of what I understand you to be saying Master Baet. I hope some day to meet you and if I am lucky enough get the chance to eat some of your famous cooking. Grace and Peace, Rez --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:45:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex France To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Arnis Presas Style and Balisong by Ernesto Presas. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>... of a bladed weapon called “kali”, an ancient Malayan word denoting a large bladed weapon longer than a knife...<< That's in the book, but may be a typo. I believe the weapon was the "kalis" which you'll find on those souvenir "Weapons of Moroland" plaques. (Btw, if you want such a plaque, get the older ones which had more accurate representations.) --__--__-- Message: 3 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:30:43 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Charity FMA events Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > So guys, instead of arguing about history, lets make some. Who is up for a > charity gathering of Arnis, Eskrima and Kali instructors? The way I've > worked > these in the past, the school with the most square footage hosts the event. > Students make the checks out direct to the chosen charity and we mail them > with a cover letter to the charity explaining the event. Each instructor > gets > their own time slot and can work on whatever technique they like. Photos can > be sent to the martial arts magazines and Filipino newspapers for publicity. > The students get exposed to several styles in one day, the arts get exposure > they might not get otherwise and some needy people get some help. Everybody > wins. Well guys, who wants in? > > > Regards, > Tuhon Bill McGrath > > Tuhon Bill, Count me in, to the Charity events. We do December too for my town White Christmas fundraising. Where I asked and solicit from all of my friends a small contribution and I offer seminar here in Florida and all of the money goes directly to the un-fortunate kids and family in my town and provinces. Kapatid Jay de Leon and other members of this list are active contibutors. If I could help I dont mind joineed arm with you for the same cost. Let mne kj now ahead of time the schedule so I can arrange accordingly, you know I am still a working class. I am favor of the Unity for the good cost.. Seminar or Tournament would not a bad ideas either.. Okay, looking forward to see this working.. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) --__--__-- Message: 4 From: W S To: "eskrima@martialartsresource.net" Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:05:26 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: To Jay De Leon Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jay, I agree with you. Just trying to point out that from my own early experience training in Arnis and Eskrima systems, I read all the books I could get my hands on, including the ones that I quoted. So I was brought up (as it were) with the "Kali as the forerunner" historical explanation. By the time I hit the Kali systems it loosely meshed with what I had been taught, and what I had previously read by well respected Filipino instructors. My point being that those books helped perpetuate the Kali "mother art" perspective in my view. Today I prescribe more to the Kali/Eskrima/Arnis = FMA. Other than that, I say: Let the sticks/blades do the talking. : ) Take care, William Guro William Schultz Mongrel Combative Arts www.mongrelcombativearts.com In reply to.............. Message: 5 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:40:12 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] reply to William Schultz To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guro William: Thanks for getting all these together. I should have these books myself, in storage somewhere, lol. It does prove your point, although all these were written in the 1980's (two of them in the late 80's). By then, kali was long out of the bag, and my guess is, these gentlemen were just covering all their historical options. The difference between your quoted authors and the "Hawaiian and California" instructors is that, (without naming names), the latter actually called their styles "kali" and thus propagated the name to perpetuity, whereas the former were just writing about it, and were actually "arnis" or "eskrima" practitioners. But I appreciate your effort in making your point. Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.co _________________________________________________________________ See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] FMAers helping each other Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:58:53 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net And remember the man behind the scenes, Al Concepcion. He was the first to sponsor Cacoy, Dong and most of the other best known eskrimadors from the RP into the US back in the 70s. Ray On Aug 25, 2008, at 6:33 PM, william mcgrath wrote: > Actually FMA people helping each other out has been going on for a > long time. > I remember when Leo Gaje and Mat Marinas did joint events in the > 70's (back > before either one was famous). Also Cacoy Canete giving a demo at > the first > Pekiti-Tirsia tournament in New York and Leo introducing us to Remy > Presas > also in the 1970's. ... --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:11:12 -0700 (PDT) From: william mcgrath To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Charity seminars follow up Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Folks,   Here are some follow up ideas for a series of combined FMA charity seminars. The purpose of these seminars would be to bring together students and teachers of different systems of Filipino martial arts in a friendly atmosphere, promote camaraderie and brotherhood among these diverse systems and help a worthy cause. We have people on this list from all over the world. Imagine if we held coordinated events in several countries and in several cities during the same time period.   Here¢s what I think you will need to put a seminar like this together.   1. A good location near you. A large, well established martial arts school in a big city would be ideal. But if that¢s not an option, I¢ve found that the fact that this is a charity event can open doors at public schools, churches, Elk¢s lodges, etc.   2. At least two FMA instructors per day of the seminar and more if you have the room to hold simultaneous classes. This format seemed to work well at previous seminars I¢ve done. More instructors = more students. The draw is a unique opportunity to train in several systems in a short span of time. Conversely, if an instructor is going to travel to an event, then they want enough time to present their material. After the recent discussions here on the digest it would be great to have an Arnis instructor, an Eskrima instructor and a Kali instructor at each event, but in all honestly I don¢t think most attendees will care one way or the other. If it works out that they train with two of one kind and only one of another, they will still be happy   3. Advertizing helps and since this is a charity event, you can get a large amount of it for free. Also try to schedule the event away from any other larger events that could draw people away. You should let the online FMA community know about the event at least a month in advance and the general community at the two and one week marks. (If you want to put an announcement in the MA magazines, they need at least four months lead time). A few photos and a short article after the event sent to the magazines will bring some great free publicity to your individual school and to the FMA community in general.   4. Depending on where you hold the event, insurance may or may not be an issue. Make sure you find out ahead of time. You might be able to add a one or two day event cheaply to already existing insurance, just make sure it¢s all worked out long ahead of the event. Sales of an official event video can help with the cost. 5. Choose a charity, announce what it will be in your advertising and have the participants make their checks out directly to the charity. The paperwork ends up being a lot cleaner and easier this way.     I¢d like to do one in New York, but I¢ll need some help. I live in a small town 1 ½ hours north of New York City. Since a school in NYC would draw more participants then having it by me, that¢s the logical place for the seminar to be held. So if you know of a school in the New York City area willing to host a FMA charity benefit seminar sometime this Fall, or can do the local footwork to find a location or you¢re a FMA instructor who would like to help instruct at this event, please contact me.   The charity I would like to donate the NYC seminar proceeds to is Philippines-Feed the Children. This is the Philippine branch of the long established international charity: http://www.ftcphils.org/index.php   Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath Pekiti-Tirsia International   www.TheSwordofFire.com www.pekiti.com http://www.youtube.com/user/TuhonBillMcg --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:12:47 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] 4th FMA Festival in Boracay Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The 4th FMA Festival took place in Boracay, in the Philippines on July 20-25, 2008, with an awards night in Iloilo City.   The FMA Festival takes place every two years, and is sponsored by the International Modern Arnis Federation of the Philippines (IMAFP), based in Manila.   I was unable to attend this year, but my student Jeremiah Stanley did.  In fact, Jeremiah tested for and was awarded his lakan (black belt) during the Festival.   Below are my two articles on the event.  The first is on the Festival, the second focuses on Jeremiah's trip to the Phil.   Enjoy.   Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com   http://www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com/Museum_Library/4thFMA_Festival-08/4t hFMA_Festival_Boracay.html   http://www.filipinofightingartsintl.com/Filipino-Fighting-Arts/USA/ffa_usa-je remiah-stanley.html     --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:54:37 -0700 (PDT) From: craftydog@dogbrothers.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Charity shindig Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Woof Bill: We had fun the last time we did this and I was glad to help out Felisa Sulite. I'm game to do it again; Felisa's doing well now, I'm thinking this time to support a wounded vets group or something like that-- but times are tight-- can my airfare and hotel be covered? TAC, Marc/Crafty Dog PS: I'm not sure whether my effort to post in support of your post on Kali came through or not-- if not, for the record allow me to say "Great post!" > From: william mcgrath > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] FMAers helping each other >> > > Actually FMA people helping each other out has been going on for a long > time. , , , And > I > remember the charity seminars for Edgar's family I did with Marc Denny in > Houston and with Rick Tucci in New York (and Loki Jorgenson did in > Vancouver). > And if you've a regular on this list, you must remember seeing all the > joint > seminars where several styles would get together for training and > comradely as > well as for charity events such as for the victims of Mt. Pinatubo. > > When I held monthly seminars, it became a tradition to hold the December > seminar for charity. I've partnered with a number of FMA  instructors in > the > Tri-State area for these and we all had a great time for some great > causes. > > So guys, instead of arguing about history, lets make some. Who is up for a > charity gathering of Arnis, Eskrima and Kali instructors? The way I've > worked > these in the past, the school with the most square footage hosts the > event. > Students make the checks out direct to the chosen charity and we mail them > with a cover letter to the charity explaining the event. Each instructor > gets > their own time slot and can work on whatever technique they like. Photos > can > be sent to the martial arts magazines and Filipino newspapers for > publicity. > The students get exposed to several styles in one day, the arts get > exposure > they might not get otherwise and some needy people get some help. > Everybody > wins. Well guys, who wants in? > > > Regards, > Tuhon Bill McGrath --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:43:50 -0700 (PDT) From: tim To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Ternate, Cavite - the documented entry point of Tjakalele? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Is it possible that Gregorio Aglipay got his information that the > ancient name for the native martial arts is "Kali" from the descendants > of these Ternate warriors? While Gregorio Aglipay himself is from > Batac, Ilocos Norte, as the poster boy of the Cavite faction of the > Katipunan, he spends a lot of his time in Cavite - within the inner > circle of Kapitan Miong... so, your hypothesis is that it went like this: kalarippayattu (indian martial art) -> kolkali (indian stick dance) -> tjakalele (mollucan stick dance) -> kali (filipino martial art) -> arnis (filipino martial art) is that correct? tim --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest