Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:48:21 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #232 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2600 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Charity seminars (william mcgrath) 2. Re: Ternate, Cavite - the documented entry point of Tjakalele? (Bill Debuque) 3. Re: 4th FMA Festival - Gala night (ABANICO) 4. Re: Re: 4th FMA Festival - Gala night (jay de leon) 5. Western/FMA Challenge? (GatPuno@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:23:55 -0700 (PDT) From: william mcgrath To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Charity seminars Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Marc wrote, > Woof Bill: We had fun the last time we did this and I was glad to help out Felisa Sulite.  I'm game to do it again; Felisa's doing well now, I'm thinking this time to support a wounded vets group or something like that-- but times are tight-- can my airfare and hotel be covered? TAC, Marc/Crafty Dog < Hi Folks, When Marc and I did the Sulite benefit seminar we each flew out to Houston on our own dime. For the 2008 charity seminars, I'm thinking that instead of trying to get all the instructors to one location and hold one charity seminar there, we would raise more money and have much lower overhead if we did several seminars around the country. This would give us a lot more flexibility regarding instructor schedules, we would draw more students overall and each seminar could choose its own charity. We could advertize all the seminars under the same banner, maybe something like - FMA Charity Benefit Seminars 2008, but the seminars themselves would be run on the local level. Many local seminars instead of one central seminar makes the most sense to me. Your thoughts? Regards, Bill McGrath www.TheSwordofFire.com www.pekiti.com http://www.youtube.com/user/TuhonBillMcg --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:13:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Debuque Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Ternate, Cavite - the documented entry point of Tjakalele? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Tim!   A more accurate evolution would be:   kalarippayattu (indian martial art) -> kolkali (indian stick dance) -> tjakalele (mollucan stick dance) -> kali (ternate, cavite martial art) But this only pertains to the documented Moluccan connection of the term.   There appears to be much older connection through Borneo which cannot be fully supported by documentation but is pretty obvious if one takes into account circumstantial evidence:   Indian martial arts -> Sri Visayan Empire martial arts -> Philippine Islands martial arts (through Borneo)   One must take into account that, until today, the Javanese refers to "Borneo" as "Kalimantan".   Here is what Encyclopedia Brittanica Online says on "Kalimantan":    "The origin of the name Kalimantan is obscure...  The history of Indonesian Borneo is closely linked to that of India, and there is considerable evidence of Indian cultural influences. Inscriptions in Sanskrit that date from the late 5th century have been found there, as well as an early Buddha figure. Numbers of other Buddhist and Hindu images that date from the 7th to the 11th century and that show Javanese influence have also been found in eastern Borneo. The ¦rivijaya empire of Sumatra was, in fact, the predominant power in southern and western Borneo from the 7th century until the Majapahit empire of eastern Java conquered the area in the 14th century."   Based on my 7-year stay in Indonesia, Sumatran and Javanese culture and tradition have a lot of things in common.  Moluccan culture and tradition, on the other hand, are practically worlds apart from them - notwithstanding their common Indian connection.  So, if the Moluccans call their martial art "Tjakalele", it is  highly remote that the Sumatran/Javanese would call theirs by the same name.  Probably a highly similar name, but not exactly the same name.    Message: 9 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:43:50 -0700 (PDT) From: tim To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Ternate, Cavite - the documented entry point of Tjakalele? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Is it possible that Gregorio Aglipay got his information that the > ancient name for the native martial arts is "Kali" from the descendants > of these Ternate warriors?  While Gregorio Aglipay himself is from > Batac, Ilocos Norte, as the poster boy of the Cavite faction of the > Katipunan, he spends a lot of his time in Cavite - within the inner > circle of Kapitan Miong... so, your hypothesis is that it went like this: kalarippayattu (indian martial art) -> kolkali (indian stick dance) -> tjakalele (mollucan stick dance) -> kali (filipino martial art) -> arnis (filipino martial art) is that correct? tim --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:10:33 +0200 From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (ABANICO) Organization: ABANICO GmbH & Co KG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: 4th FMA Festival - Gala night Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Jay, thanks for posting the articles with pictures from the 4th FMA Festival in Boracay, Philippines. Soon there will be an article (also in English) with pictures up on the DAV website. I will post, when it is online. For Jay had to leave a little bit early, he missed a surprise at the Gala night in Iloilo. Samuel "Bambit" Dulay and myself, Dieter Knüttel, were promoted to 8th Dan Modern Arnis. We were also recognized as Grandmasters by the following council of Grandmasters: GM Christino Vasquez, 9th Dan Modern Arnis GM Rene Tongson, 8th Dan Modern Arnis, GM Rodel Dagooc, 8th Dan Modern Arnis GM Jerry Dela Cruz, 8th DAn Modern Arnis SM Salvador Demaisip, Chairman, International Modern Arnis Federation - Philippines You can imagine, that we both were very happy about it. Regards Datu Dieter Knüttel http://www.dieterknuettel.de http://www.modern-arnis.de http://www.abanico.de Here is the official >Message: 7 >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:12:47 -0700 (PDT) >From: jay de leon >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] 4th FMA Festival in Boracay >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >The 4th FMA Festival took place in Boracay, in >the Philippines on July 20-25, 2008, with an awards >night in Iloilo City. > >The FMA Festival takes place every two years, >and is sponsored by the International Modern Arnis >Federation of the Philippines (IMAFP), based in >Manila. > >I was unable to attend this year, but my student >Jeremiah Stanley did. In fact, Jeremiah tested for >and was awarded his lakan (black belt) during the >Festival. > >Below are my two articles on the event. The >first is on the Festival, the second focuses on >Jeremiah's trip to the Phil. > >Enjoy. > >Jay de Leon >www.filipinofightingartsintl.com > >http://www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com/Museum_Library/4thFMA_Festival-08/4t >hFMA_Festival_Boracay.html > >http://www.filipinofightingartsintl.com/Filipino-Fighting-Arts/USA/ffa_usa-je >remiah-stanley.html > > -- ABANICO GmbH & Co. KG Knyphausenstr. 2b 44287 Dortmund Germany Tel: xx49 (0)231 4948060 Fax: xx49 (0)231 4948061 Sitz Dortmund, Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 12905, Geschäftsführer: Dieter Knüttel http://www.abanico.de http://www.dieterknuettel.de --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:27:35 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: 4th FMA Festival - Gala night To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Dieter:   Congratulations on your Lakan Walo promotion; we will now have to address you as Grandmaster Datu.  Also, congratulations on your Kampilan Award for promoting Modern Arnis in Europe (including Russia).   Looking forward to your article on the Festival.  As usual, your DAV delegates were probably the largest contingent at the 4th FMA Festival.   More power to you, DAV and Abanico.   Jay de Leon Commissioner for North America, IMAFP www.imafp.com   --- On Thu, 8/28/08, ABANICO wrote: From: ABANICO Subject: [Eskrima] Re: 4th FMA Festival - Gala night To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 12:10 AM Hello Jay, thanks for posting the articles with pictures from the 4th FMA Festival in Boracay, Philippines. Soon there will be an article (also in English) with pictures up on the DAV website. I will post, when it is online. For Jay had to leave a little bit early, he missed a surprise at the Gala night in Iloilo. Samuel "Bambit" Dulay and myself, Dieter Knüttel, were promoted to 8th Dan Modern Arnis. We were also recognized as Grandmasters by the following council of Grandmasters: GM Christino Vasquez, 9th Dan Modern Arnis GM Rene Tongson, 8th Dan Modern Arnis, GM Rodel Dagooc, 8th Dan Modern Arnis GM Jerry Dela Cruz, 8th DAn Modern Arnis SM Salvador Demaisip, Chairman, International Modern Arnis Federation - Philippines You can imagine, that we both were very happy about it. Regards Datu Dieter Knüttel http://www.dieterknuettel.de http://www.modern-arnis.de http://www.abanico.de _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 5 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:09:42 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Western/FMA Challenge? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Master Baet, > > >> This is actually not a bad idea, considering you thought of it, > > I'm not sure how to read that sentence. The way it is written it sounds like > you are saying you don’t think I'm capable of coming up with good ideas. I > hope you don’t think that badly of me. > Well, to tell you the truth, your not the only one having a hard time to understand my writing. Simple: I would love to see you fight or participate also on the Tournament you are refering to, that all. Dont worry I am not expecting you want to understand my writing this is not the first time it happen. So no worry, just totally dis-regards. > > >> I would love to see how sharp their skills more than the sharpness of > their > >> mouth and thought. > > Me too, which was my point. > > >> The problem to your challeges is a lot of this Filipino Master that > talking > >> is in the Philippines and its take a lot of money to come here in US, if > they > >> will be able to get the Visa too. > > Actually I was referring to the Western Martial Artists who are saying that > their Western Style is better than the FMA style. I think it is incumbent > upon the Western Martial Artists who are making these claims of superiority > to prove it by backing up their claims or cease and desist making > unsubstantiated claims. They should pay their own way to go to the Filipino > Martial Artists. Not the other way around. > You never mention the Western fencing nor FMA, so I took it is challenges towards FMA in general especially to those practitioner that questioning Western Fencing, since you are Western practitoner before FMA. > > >> Now if your not serious dont even used someone else parade. > > I don’t understand what you mean by that sentence. > > >> I am not accepting your challenge since I am not the one whom you talking > >> about. > > I wasn’t challenging you Master Baet. Actually I wasn’t challenging anyone > since I am not one of those persons who claim their Western Swordsmanship is > superior to FMA. I'm not that naïve. I see good and useful techniques in > several different styles of martial arts, which is why I have a desire to > learn FMA. I was suggesting that the Western Martial Artists who are making > claims of superiority should challenge Filipino Martial Artists. I think the > ones doing the bragging should be the ones doing the challenging to prove > their statements. > > >> Sport is always a sports, but we learn the arts that not designed to > sports, > >> and no matter how good you are in sports that not proved nothing till you > face > >> "Black Angel".. > > I whole heartedly agree. The rules and arbitrary conventions established in > tournaments turn martial arts into sports in which they loose many of their > self-defense effectiveness in the interest of scoring points by playing to > the rules. > > But still, in training and testing your martial art skills there is a limit > to what you can do legally and there is also a limit to the amount of damage > a person is willing to take to his body in the process of learning and > testing his martial. I think few men these days, even if they knew there > would be no legal implications, are willing to fight to the death simply to > prove their style is superior. > > In martial arts training there is a continuum with safety on one end and > realism on the other end. The further you move toward safety (rules, safe > weapons, padding) the less realistic (self-defense-wise) a martial art > becomes and the further you move toward realism the less safe a martial art > becomes. In training and testing our skills we have to find the appropriate > balance between the need for safety and the need for realism. That is why I > admire the Dog Brothers. They have been taking the art further towards > realism on the safety/realism continuum. This has given them a better > understanding of what works in a more realistic situation. However, I think > even they would admit that even the rule "You must remain friends at the end > of the day" causes some participants to use a bit more self-control during > fighting and probably tone down the amount of force they use or refrain form > using certain techniques which they might otherwise use in a real life or > deaths self-defense situation. > > These are just my thoughts and as scripture says a "wise man is always > willing to accept correction" so I am willing to defer to the Masters and > fighters on this list who have more experience and knowledge than I. And > when it comes to FMA I am sure that is most everyone on this list. > > >> But i only voice my thought of the situation and your malice words > towards > >> them. Need to step forward and show my support to all Filipino Master > engage > >> in this topics. > > You did misunderstand my posting if you think I harbor malice toward any > Filipino Masters or any Western Masters for that matter. I have no malice in > my heart towards any man. > > >> Salamat, your madly deeply fanatic Filipino (Pinoy), > > I don’t always understand everything you write, but I do enjoy reading your > posts and tend to agree with most of what I understand you to be saying > Master Baet. I hope some day to meet you and if I am lucky enough get the > chance to eat some of your famous cooking. > > Grace and Peace, > Rez > Mr. Rez I may not be a good writer, but I know your intention but you are not mentioning who you are Challenging to participate in Tournament USFMA etc.. Again, next time clearly write who are you refering to becaused it look you are affraid to mentioned who are they, if you posted to public its mean its challenge to everyone, but the timing is perfect Gatdula, Talibung and me are active on contributing to the Western Fencing/FMA topic. So if you are talking Western,meaning you are challenging the Western Fencer to join FMA Tournament? If that so, next time address it toward the right group or person. Accept my apology If I mis-understand your post. I am sorry but I think my English is fine, I made an effort to write them considering is not my native tongue. Love to meet you too someday, and dont mind to cook and share a food with you also clashes few minutes of stick with you and your group. Ingat (peace), Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA Tel. 954-432-4433 www.garimot.com ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest