Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 02:48:21 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #233 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2600 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: 4th FMA Festival (ABANICO) 2. "ILAGA Eskrimadores back in action" (Talibung Antike) 3. Re: Ternate, Cavite - the documented entry point of Tjakalele? (tim) 4. Re: "ILAGA Eskrimadores back in action" (jay de leon) 5. Re: Re: Ternate, Cavite - the documented entry point of Tjakalele? (jay de leon) 6. From the Gracie Insider (Eskrima-FMA) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:56:31 +0200 From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (ABANICO) Organization: ABANICO GmbH & Co KG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: 4th FMA Festival Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Jay, thanks for the congratulations. Yes, we were 27 on the camp, 16 coming from Germany and 3 form Russia. Te next camp will probably be in 2010, also on a nice beach. It would be great to have more participants from all over the world then. BTW, I have updated my website , especially the biography area, also the english version. Have a look if you like under: http://www.dieterknuettel.de Greetings Dieter http://www.dieterknuettel.de http://www.abanico.de > >Congratulations on your Lakan Walo promotion; we will >now have to address you as Grandmaster Datu. Also, >congratulations on your Kampilan Award for promoting >Modern Arnis in Europe (including Russia). > >Looking forward to your article on the Festival. As >usual, your DAV delegates were probably the largest >contingent at the 4th FMA Festival. > >More power to you, DAV and Abanico. > >Jay de Leon >Commissioner for North America, IMAFP >www.imafp.com > -- ABANICO GmbH & Co. KG --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:18:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Talibung Antike To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] "ILAGA Eskrimadores back in action" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} The Traditional Filipino Warrior Arts and Sciences is still very much alive here in the Philippines. Our low profile great Filpino Eskrimadores are back in form and up in Mindanao not for business, popularity, propagation, tournaments, trophies and ranks that some of our (FMAS) “Filipino Mandirigmang Agham at Sining” enthusiasts in the West are mostly so concerned about. They are up in the name of peaceful coexistence, fairness, justice, freedom and survival. No malice intended but here are the links for you to better understand the context of what we’re trying to convey. http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20080828-157221/Dreaded-Ilaga-is-back http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/regions/view/20080827-157158/Ilaga-vigilantes-resurface-warn-MILF One of our mentors (name withheld for security reasons) in Traditional Eskrima in Antique, Panay Island Philippines (late 1970s to early 80s) who has an aversion to get photographed was one of the leaders of this ILAGA Vigilante Movement during the height of the Mindanao Conflict circa late 1960s to early 1970s until the then President Ferdinand Marcos Declared Martial Law last September 21, 1972. From his peaceful life in Antique, once again he’s back to Mindanao even in his ripe old age (with his Talibung etcetera of course) to ensure his families, fellow migrants (Kasimanwas) from Panay and other parts of the country, peace loving natives (Lumads) as well as peace loving Muslims who peacefully coexisted with them in Mindanao are protected and ready for any eventuality against the threats to their lives and properties. This is the very essence of the not so known classical Tradisyonal Eskrima systems in “Filipino Warrior Arts and Sciences” that some of us (Tradisyonalistas) still practice and live as a way of life and not just as a livelihood here in our homeland Philippines. Just like our forebears from past generations we have never called these “Traditional Filipino Warrior Arts and Sciences” as “Kali”. It is just known as “Mga Kina-adman Ha-nga-way” such that, up to this day some of these Traditional Warrior Arts and Sciences are not taught in group or classroom setting, gym or large group environment. The major difference in the essence of its practice is the mindset of survival and real life confrontation effectiveness which deviate from the prevalent westernized and modern times mindset of friendly competition, safety, sportsmanship, propagation, business viability, and general public acceptance. The essence of our practice FMAS may be different but of course we believe that we are in unity in our quest for lasting PEACE and safety and prosperity. Pray for lasting PEACE in Mindanao, Philippines! “Talibung Antike” Panay Island, Philippines --------------------------------- Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:46:50 -0700 (PDT) From: tim To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Ternate, Cavite - the documented entry point of Tjakalele? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > kalarippayattu (indian martial art) -> kolkali (indian > stick dance) -> tjakalele (mollucan stick dance) -> > kali (ternate, cavite martial art) > > But this only pertains to the documented Moluccan > connectionof the term. how would a people, who do not have their own fighting arts, be able to take a stick dance two generations removed from fighting arts, and be able to construct a fighting art from it? if that were how it actually happened, would it not be safe to assume that the caviteos already had knowledge of fighting? and if so, could you really say that their fighting art came from the dances, much less from kalarippayattu, which had been sanitized by at least two versions of dancing? furthermore, why would the the caviteos name their art after a portion of the name of the stick dance previous to the stick dance they learned? > One must take into account that,until today, the > Javaneserefers to"Borneo" as "Kalimantan". why must that be taken into account? what relevance does it have? > So, if the Moluccanscall their martial art "Tjakalele" but they don't; they call a stick dance 'tjakalele.' that's akin to saying that the filipinos call their martial art 'sakuting.' > it is highly remote that the > Sumatran/Javanese would call theirs > by the same name.Probably a highly similar name, but > not exactly the same name. we know of many names that the sumatrans and javanese call their arts, such as silat, silek, pencak, and mancak. why do you assume that there is one similar to tjakalele? tim --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:12:32 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] "ILAGA Eskrimadores back in action" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Talibung Antike: It is with sadness that I read your latest post. I happen to know a little bit about the so-called Mindanao Conflict and the dreaded Ilagas. You see, I lived and worked in Cotabato in the early 70's. I worked on the construction of the cemented highway from Cotabato City to Davao City. I was therefore very familiar with the towns, mayors and townspeople of the towns along that route. I caught the tail end of that conflict. I was there when they arrested and incarcerated Commander Toothpick. At that time, you could still see, right from the highway, remnants of burnt houses in towns like Pikit and Makilala. I met mayors of the major Christian towns whichwere reputed to be Ilaga strongholds, like Pigkawayan and Midsayap. I also had conferences with mayors of Muslim towns like Sultan Kudarat and Matalam. I spoke with many alleged Ilaga "commanders" many of whom actually worked for me as drivers, mechanics, heavy equipment operators, etc. Many told me in confidence of Ilaga "operations." The level of violence was sickening, to put it mildly--attacking villages and burning houses at night, throwing grenades into mosques, etc. To put things in perspective, the violence came from both sides, and the civilians (both Christians and Muslims) suffered. I know for a fact that most Ilaga contingents were either trained, supported or actually led by military officers. Many "commanders" were former military men and now led the Ilagas because of their military experience. They were very competent, dedicated and vicious. I had many unforgetable experiences including close calls in Cotabato. It issad to imagine that more than 30 years later, it would be deja vu for Mindanao again. FMA, or Traditional Filipino Warrior Arts and Sciences as you call it, was alive and well then. But it was not double sticks and espada y daga. It was Armalite with double clips taped back to back, grenades and paltik (homemade guns) with guerrilla tactics in the villages and desolate backroads. It was nasty business. I had an interesting exchange of private emails with somebody from the list about paltiks a long time ago. I mentioned that I wished I kept as souvenir one of the many paltiks Ibought and passed on to my security people. It was a .38 paltik copied from a Smith and Wesson, with the actual logo of Smith and Wesson on the paltik; they told me it was manufactured in Borneo(?). It was obviously one of the better paltiks. I join you in prayer for peace in Cotabato and the rest of Mindanao that might be soon embroiled in conflict again. Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com --- On Thu, 8/28/08, Talibung Antike wrote: From: Talibung Antike Subject: [Eskrima] "ILAGA Eskrimadores back in action" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 10:18 PM The Traditional Filipino Warrior Arts and Sciences is still very much alive here in the Philippines. Our low profile great Filpino Eskrimadores are back in form and up in Mindanao not for business, popularity, propagation, tournaments, trophies and ranks that some of our (FMAS) Filipino Mandirigmang Agham at Sining enthusiasts in the West are mostly so concerned about. They are up in the name of peaceful coexistence, fairness, justice, freedom and survival. No malice intended but here are the links for you to better understand the context of what were trying to convey. http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20080828-157221/Dr eaded-Ilaga-is-back http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/regions/view/20080827-157158/Ilaga- vigilantes-resurface-warn-MILF One of our mentors (name withheld for security reasons) in Traditional Eskrima in Antique, Panay Island Philippines (late 1970s to early 80s) who has an aversion to get photographed was one of the leaders of this ILAGA Vigilante Movement during the height of the Mindanao Conflict circa late 1960s to early 1970s until the then President Ferdinand Marcos Declared Martial Law last September 21, 1972. From his peaceful life in Antique, once again hes back to Mindanao even in his ripe old age (with his Talibung etcetera of course) to ensure his families, fellow migrants (Kasimanwas) from Panay and other parts of the country, peace loving natives (Lumads) as well as peace loving Muslims who peacefully coexisted with them in Mindanao are protected and ready for any eventuality against the threats to their lives and properties. This is the very essence of the not so known classical Tradisyonal Eskrima systems in Filipino Warrior Arts and Sciences that some of us (Tradisyonalistas) still practice and live as a way of life and not just as a livelihood here in our homeland Philippines. Just like our forebears from past generations we have never called these Traditional Filipino Warrior Arts and Sciences as Kali. It is just known as Mga Kina-adman Ha-nga-way such that, up to this day some of these Traditional Warrior Arts and Sciences are not taught in group or classroom setting, gym or large group environment. The major difference in the essence of its practice is the mindset of survival and real life confrontation effectiveness which deviate from the prevalent westernized and modern times mindset of friendly competition, safety, sportsmanship, propagation, business viability, and general public acceptance. The essence of our practice FMAS may be different but of course we believe that we are in unity in our quest for lasting PEACE and safety and prosperity. Pray for lasting PEACE in Mindanao, Philippines! Talibung Antike Panay Island, Philippines --------------------------------- Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:22:34 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Ternate, Cavite - the documented entry point of Tjakalele? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "that's akin to saying that the filipinos call their martial art 'sakuting.'" i danced the sakuting at a school performance when i was a wee grade schooler. sakuting is a folk dance, danced with two or double sticks executed with many arnis-like movements, somethingresemblingwitiks. maybe manong jorge penafiel has a clip of himself dancing the sakuting when he was a dancer for the "Bayanihan." or we will settle for any clip of you dancing, manong jorge. jay de leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com --- On Fri, 8/29/08, tim wrote: From: tim Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Ternate, Cavite - the documented entry point of Tjakalele? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 7:46 AM > kalarippayattu (indian martial art) -> kolkali (indian > stick dance) -> tjakalele (mollucan stick dance) -> > kali (ternate, cavite martial art) > > But this only pertains to the documented Moluccan > connectionof the term. how would a people, who do not have their own fighting arts, be able to take a stick dance two generations removed from fighting arts, and be able to construct a fighting art from it? if that were how it actually happened, would it not be safe to assume that the caviteos already had knowledge of fighting? and if so, could you really say that their fighting art came from the dances, much less from kalarippayattu, which had been sanitized by at least two versions of dancing? furthermore, why would the the caviteos name their art after a portion of the name of the stick dance previous to the stick dance they learned? > One must take into account that,until today, the > Javaneserefers to"Borneo" as "Kalimantan". why must that be taken into account? what relevance does it have? > So, if the Moluccanscall their martial art "Tjakalele" but they don't; they call a stick dance 'tjakalele.' that's akin to saying that the filipinos call their martial art 'sakuting.' > it is highly remote that the > Sumatran/Javanese would call theirs > by the same name.Probably a highly similar name, but > not exactly the same name. we know of many names that the sumatrans and javanese call their arts, such as silat, silek, pencak, and mancak. why do you assume that there is one similar to tjakalele? tim _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:20:08 -0700 From: Eskrima-FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] From the Gracie Insider Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "At the Gracie Academy a black belt is awarded to any person who reaches their max potential in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Although any person who trains long enough will eventually be awarded a black belt, it is fascinating how some people do it in much less time than others. Because the time varies so greatly, people often wonder what the secret is to rapid progress in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Most instructors would tell you that all it takes is hard training as often as possible. At the Gracie Academy we believe that it is not how many classes you take, but what you take from the classes. Those who progress most rapidly in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu are the ones who know how to learn most effectively." --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest