Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 02:48:21 +0200 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #261 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2600 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Modern Arnis "Revisionist History?" (Danny Anderson) 2. Re: RE: Modern Arnis "Revisionist History?" (jay de leon) 3. Re:( Eskrima) Gunting Knives (Tim Kashino) 4. Waitress nails bank robber (Marc Denny) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Danny Anderson To: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 00:58:17 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Modern Arnis "Revisionist History?" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I went to the Visayan Filipino martial Arts blog to check out the story. Interesting. I'll answer a couple of Max Maun's questions. (whole story at this ink) http://visayanfilipinomartialarts.blogspot.com/ "If Modern Arnis was established in 1968 as stated, how could the Lisondra brothers earn rank in that system on December 11, 1964 or 4 years before it was founded?" Remy Presas started Modern Arnis in 1957. He may have incorporated it in 1964 but he formulated it in 1957. "Mr. Lisondra also stated that he went back to Bacolod in 1971 while GM Presas stayed in Manila . Why did GM Presas stay in Manila ? Who were the known people associated with GM Presas during that time period?" It is well known that he was working with Roland Dantes in the film industry at that time. I believe Vicente Sanchez was working in the film industry then as well and worked with Prof. Presas. "On page 51, Mr. Lisondra admitted that their group was practicing a system of techniques called Corridas that was later renamed to Tapi-Tapi. What then is corridas? How did it become to be called Tapi-Tapi by GM Presas? Who were the original practitioners of Corridas? And most importantly, who were the real originators of Modern Arnis as a system? Who prepared the original manuscript of the book Modern Arnis? What happened to the original manuscript?" Corridas is principle part of balintawak eskrima training. Remy trained in balintawak eskrima under Rodolfo Moncal, Timoteo Maranga and Ancion Bacon. >From my limited training in balintawak and extensive training in Modern Arnis, Tapi-Tapi appears to be a derivative of the original corridas. "Let me start in the mid 1960s when I was still an elementary pupil at UNO-R in Bacolod City . Prof. Remegio “Remy” Amador Presas of Hinigaran was employed as college PE instructor at the university, teaching Karate and Judo as PE elective subjects during that time. During that period, Prof. Presas was popular and known as a Karate and Judo man, rather than a stickfighting instructor." It is also well known that arts like karate and judo were more popular than the indigenous arts at that time. It is not surprising that he was known as a karate/judo man when that was what he was employed as. "There were also other things revealed to me by my uncles which I personally believe should not go public and must be kept and buried in order not to destroy the legacy of today’s Modern Arnis. It is best kept in secret to preserve the good memories of Col. Pedro “Pete” P. Doromal Jr., Capt. Nelson P. Doromal, and Prof. Remegio “Remy” A. Presas. These three people are no longer with us today." In other words, to commemorate the 7th anniversary of Prof. Presas' passing away, it's now time to bring up "history" that can't/won't be verified so that the good memories of these men may be preserved. You must be well schooled in American politics to come up with a line like that. The duel, the borrowing of the manuscript which was never returned (if so, call it for what it was - theft) may all be true but why wait 7 years if you already had this data? "There are still people alive today who know the story and could vouch for its authenticity. Mr. Julio Euraba and Col. Atty. GM Marcelo “Pope” C. Jalandoon, Ph.D., of Talisay City, Negros Occidental are just two of them. I would rather not mention the names of the other people to respect their privacy. However, I could easily refer anyone who wishes to check with them in private." Now that you have come public, why not have them do so as well? "Let me again say that I am not putting anyone into the bad light. I am merely correcting an error which has continued for decades. Let history be right and truth prevail about modern arnis. Mabuhay ang lahing Filipino! Mabuhay ang Arnis!" And let me say, "Gook Luck, Uncle Buck." This not merely 'correcting an error.' Whether true or not, this is ONE MAN (you) who is talking smack about one of the two men (the other being Guro Dan Inosanto) who have successfully done more than any other to bring the Filipino Martial Arts into the world eye. Unless you can back up your data with creditable sources who are willing to come out and corroberate your story, this is sour grapes - pure and simple. IF you can corroberate this story, I will be the first to publicly apologize to you for my antagonistic remarks. Yours, Dan Anderson Senior Master Remy Presas Modern Arnis _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 23:37:00 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Modern Arnis "Revisionist History?" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net if i may be allowed my two centavos worth on Remy Presas...   In the interest of full disclosure, i am a Modern Arnis practitioner, i am currently an officer of a Remy Presas organization (IMAFP in the Philippines) and i associate with many Modern Arnis guros in the Phil. who were Remy's students, friends and even relatives in the Phil.   i saw Remy over a period of 3 decades here in the US. our relationship was light, but warm and cordial.  during one of his seminars, for example, the two of us ate lunch together and chatted in Tagalog for about 15-20 min.    the conversation was so sagacious and insightful, all i could remember about the conversation was, i kidded him about his lunch--two hot dogs, chips and a soda.  i had a teriyaki chicken lunch box.  i chided him that the hot dogs were bad for him.  he said, i am tired of that kind of food, referring to my lunch.  we went on to discuss even more mundane topics.    the point i would like to make is, i do not look at remy as a god of arnis who spoke from a burning bush and delivered us the tablets of Modern Arnis.  to me, i look at him from the prism of a Filipino immigrant to the US and he was just another middle-aged fellow immigrant from the Philippines who made it big in the US, realizing his dream.   i know that the art he called Modern Arnis came from the crucible of his own experience, and just like any human experience, carried baggage, flaws, flashes of brilliance, inspiration and despair.  Remy Presas was a human being with feet of clay, warts and moles, and maybe some would claim, severe character flaws.   but nobody can take away from remy presas the legacy he has left that is Modern Arnis.  flawed though his art and imperfect though his character might be, it was Remy Presas, the man and the arnisador, who brought Modern Arnis unto the world with his charisma, vision, hard work, and humanity.   up to now, it is still a wonder to me that Remy Presas was able to achieve what he was able to achieve in the United States.  unless you have been an immigrant to the United States, i would reserve judgment about Remy Presas.  Modern Arnis is now a household word in international arnis because of Remy Presas, not because of the tapi-tapi he may have learned, copied or stole from you.   if Remy has wronged any man, then i pray that that man can find it in his heart to forgive remy.  may God grant that man justice and recompense in His own way.  remy has presumably had his day of reckoning, and i would think God is in a better position to judge him than any of us here on earth.   i personally make no judgment on the revelations.  revisionist history or real history, Modern Arnis and the world will move on to its inexorable destiny.   Jay de Leon Commissioner for North America, IMAFP www.imafp.com   --- On Sat, 10/4/08, Danny Anderson wrote: From: Danny Anderson Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Modern Arnis "Revisionist History?" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 5:58 PM I went to the Visayan Filipino martial Arts blog to check out the story. Interesting. I'll answer a couple of Max Maun's questions. (whole story at this ink) http://visayanfilipinomartialarts.blogspot.com/ "If Modern Arnis was established in 1968 as stated, how could the Lisondra brothers earn rank in that system on December 11, 1964 or 4 years before it was founded?" Remy Presas started Modern Arnis in 1957. He may have incorporated it in 1964 but he formulated it in 1957. "Mr. Lisondra also stated that he went back to Bacolod in 1971 while GM Presas stayed in Manila . Why did GM Presas stay in Manila ? Who were the known people associated with GM Presas during that time period?" It is well known that he was working with Roland Dantes in the film industry at that time. I believe Vicente Sanchez was working in the film industry then as well and worked with Prof. Presas. "On page 51, Mr. Lisondra admitted that their group was practicing a system of techniques called Corridas that was later renamed to Tapi-Tapi. What then is corridas? How did it become to be called Tapi-Tapi by GM Presas? Who were the original practitioners of Corridas? And most importantly, who were the real originators of Modern Arnis as a system? Who prepared the original manuscript of the book Modern Arnis? What happened to the original manuscript?" Corridas is principle part of balintawak eskrima training. Remy trained in balintawak eskrima under Rodolfo Moncal, Timoteo Maranga and Ancion Bacon. >From my limited training in balintawak and extensive training in Modern Arnis, Tapi-Tapi appears to be a derivative of the original corridas. "Let me start in the mid 1960s when I was still an elementary pupil at UNO-R in Bacolod City . Prof. Remegio “Remy” Amador Presas of Hinigaran was employed as college PE instructor at the university, teaching Karate and Judo as PE elective subjects during that time. During that period, Prof. Presas was popular and known as a Karate and Judo man, rather than a stickfighting instructor." It is also well known that arts like karate and judo were more popular than the indigenous arts at that time. It is not surprising that he was known as a karate/judo man when that was what he was employed as. "There were also other things revealed to me by my uncles which I personally believe should not go public and must be kept and buried in order not to destroy the legacy of today’s Modern Arnis. It is best kept in secret to preserve the good memories of Col. Pedro “Pete” P. Doromal Jr., Capt. Nelson P. Doromal, and Prof. Remegio “Remy” A. Presas. These three people are no longer with us today." In other words, to commemorate the 7th anniversary of Prof. Presas' passing away, it's now time to bring up "history" that can't/won't be verified so that the good memories of these men may be preserved. You must be well schooled in American politics to come up with a line like that. The duel, the borrowing of the manuscript which was never returned (if so, call it for what it was - theft) may all be true but why wait 7 years if you already had this data? "There are still people alive today who know the story and could vouch for its authenticity. Mr. Julio Euraba and Col. Atty. GM Marcelo “Pope” C. Jalandoon, Ph.D., of Talisay City, Negros Occidental are just two of them. I would rather not mention the names of the other people to respect their privacy. However, I could easily refer anyone who wishes to check with them in private." Now that you have come public, why not have them do so as well? "Let me again say that I am not putting anyone into the bad light. I am merely correcting an error which has continued for decades. Let history be right and truth prevail about modern arnis. Mabuhay ang lahing Filipino! Mabuhay ang Arnis!" And let me say, "Gook Luck, Uncle Buck." This not merely 'correcting an error.' Whether true or not, this is ONE MAN (you) who is talking smack about one of the two men (the other being Guro Dan Inosanto) who have successfully done more than any other to bring the Filipino Martial Arts into the world eye. Unless you can back up your data with creditable sources who are willing to come out and corroberate your story, this is sour grapes - pure and simple. IF you can corroberate this story, I will be the first to publicly apologize to you for my antagonistic remarks. Yours, Dan Anderson Senior Master Remy Presas Modern Arnis _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 22:07:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Kashino To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re:( Eskrima) Gunting Knives Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net You can find the "next gereation" of Gunting at Cherusker Messer in Germany (click the link).  You'll find the Lapu-Lapu Corto (which is lighter and more ergonomic than its predecessor the Gunting) and the Lapu-Lapu Magnum (a larger, 5 inch blade version of the LLC).   They're great products and hold up well to humidity and salt water.  http://www.cherusker-messer.de/shop/page/1 Click the "Produkte" tab on the left for a list of knives and prices.  There is aslo a tab labeled "English Customers" for you convenience.  Message: 4 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 23:50:24 -0700 (PDT) From: B Light To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Gunting Knives Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Does anybody know where to order a good gunting knife?   Thanks! --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 19:34:04 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Waitress nails bank robber Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Unarmed Coffee Shop Waitress Nabs Fleeing Bank Robbery Suspect Saturday , October 04, 2008 An unarmed coffee shop waitress in Hillborough County, Fla., tackled and subdued an alleged armed robber after he hit the Valrico State Bank on Friday, Bay News 9 reported. The Da Silva's Coffee Shop employee had been trained in Germany as a police officer, but she was only half the size of the suspect she took down. Local police said suspect Jeffrey Merritt, 44, ran past Da Silva's on the way to his getaway car after robbing the bank. The waitress - the Tampa Tribune reports she wished to remain unidentified - reportedly saw Merritt running with something and looking behind him. She chased him down, yelling, "Freeze or I'm going to shoot" and then tackled him. She did not have a gun, but the bluff worked, and the suspect surrendered. "I knew she was a trained officer, but I didn't know what that really meant," Karen Raga, a co-worker, told The Tampa Tribune. Bystanders then helped the waitress sit on Merritt until police arrived. Click here to read more on this story from Bay News 9. Click here to read more on this story from The Tampa Tribune. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of foxnews_story.gif] --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest