Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:48:21 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #299 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2600 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Article Submission: Monkey Master in the Cage (MartialArtsResource) 2. Re: Re: Carabao Wrestling (Red Gonzales) 3. Carabao/Tagalog (gatpuno@aol.com) 4. the Filipino people (Kristine Strasburger) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:07:24 -0800 From: MartialArtsResource To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Article Submission: Monkey Master in the Cage Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Fwiw... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 6:00 PM To: MartialArtsResource@gmail.com Monkey Master in the Cage One of Taiwan's last remaining Monkey Masters wants to fight in the K-1 and UFC to show the world the power of traditional Chinese martial arts. By Antonio Graceffo Master Hisam's hands are huge and swollen, as hard as rocks. In demonstrations, he uses them to smash granite slabs to dust. One could only imagine what those hands would do to your skull, even through boxing gloves. The gym is a four story walkup, overlooking a highway in Tainan, the ancient capital of Taiwan. Here, 37 year old Al Haroun Hisham, a German born Syrian is one of the last keepers of the traditional monkey fist. After several hours of forms and body hardening exercises, Hisham begins his daily ritual of bag work, running, weight lifting, and wrestling with a 50 kg dummy. This the training that won him the International San Da Wang championship last year, and the one which he hopes will carry him on to a repeat win of San Da Wang, followed by the Art of War in China, and eventually landing him in the UFC or K-1. Hisham weighs over 80 Kgs of rock solid muscle and carries very little body fat. At first glance, his routine looks like a mix of East and West, new and old, but, Hisham says that most of the techniques he uses were developed in China centuries ago. "The ancient monks ran. They hit the bag. They did everything that we do today. But, they also used meditation and Chinese medicine to harden the body both inside and out." Explains Hisham. He doesn't believe he is brining something new to the MMA world. Instead, he believes he is helping the world to rediscover something that was lost. "My traditional Chinese martial arts training involves hardening the forearms, inside and outside. In the monkey, we punch with the wrist, so we have to harden the wrist. We punch back hand, and hand knife edge, as well as the palm. If we condition the entire hand, the monkey claw is very, very dangerous." Hisdham also uses Chinese conditioning on all parts of nees, elbows, and feet. "I practiced the conditioning like iron shirt, combined with Chinese medicine. Internal and external training: this make the body like a weapon." Hisham's family originates in Damascus. "My father immigrated to Berlin in early 60s. Back in Damascus, my family practiced wrestling for generations. I grew up with it. My grandfather wrestled. My uncle was a wrestling master, a national team member. He won many regional championships and went to the Asian games. He was my first teacher. We didn't have a real school, so we wrestled on the floor with mattresses." "Old school wrestling in Syria is different than modern Greco Roman They used to head-butt and grab skin or cheek muscles. So, when they threw you, they ripped out the flesh and muscles. And, they did really bad stuff to you on the ground." Hisham first fell in love with Chinese Kung Fu when he was a young buy, watching movies. "My father exported German cars Damascus. He used his money to buy several cinemas in Berlin. In the 1970s, we were the first ones playing Chinese martial arts movies. My father sat my right in the front row, when I was only four years old. He watched the Shaw Brothers and all of these old school martial arts movies. Afterwards, I went home and practiced what I shad seen." "My parents pushed me to do some exercise. My mother was a ballet dancer. My father didn't want me to do that, but my mom taught me the split and stretching. My father always wrestled with me." But most important was the influence from the movies. "My goal was to become a Shaolin monk. This was something I really admired." While growing up, Hisham earned a black belt in Tae Kwan Do. While he did his national military service, he also learned some Chinese martial arts which were taught to German paratroopers. He eventually found a monkey master in Berlin and studied with him for four years. He liked the Chinese martial art that he was learning, but he suspected that something was missing. "It all looked like the ballet my mother used to do. It was very beautiful, but where was the application?" The old school wrestling had taught Hisham that modern sport arts could be watered down versions of ancient, deadly martial arts which were applicable in real fighting. So, in 1996, he came to Taiwan first time. "I did a lot of research which said that there were three major migrations of Chinese Kung Fu masters to Taiwan. The first was in 1644, during Ming and Ching Dynasties." Next, the Boxer, after their failed rebellion in the summer of 1900, escaped to Taiwan. Finally, during Mao's cultural revolution, when all masters of ancient arts were being killed, many Kung Fu masters took refuge in Taiwan. According to Hisham, "The real martial art is not found in Mainland China because of the communism. But, I thought it could be found outside of china, in the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Hong Kong, Macao, and Taiwan. Hisham used money he earned from his school in German and from his work as a bodyguard, to finance his trips back and forth to Taiwan, seeking the masters. Eventually, in 2005, he settled permanently in Taiwan. He is married to a Taiwanese woman, who shares his vision of rediscovering the ancient Chinese arts and showcasing them to the world by winning the K-1 or UFC. "I am not a snake. I am not a tiger or a praying mantis. My body looks like a monkey. So, this is a style that works for humans, and the animal inside you can come out. I traveled all over Taiwan to find masters. I heard some legends that they didn't pass their knowledge because monkey is a special technique which they didn't want to teach just anyone. They taught some bits of monkey and incorporated it into existing animal styles. But no one wanted to teach the real monkey because it is so deadly." Hisham feels that the Hanaman boxing practiced in Thailand should also be included into Monkey Kung Fu. After all, it is the same monkey god in both countries. Therefore, he used flying knees and elbows. Eventually, Hisham found an 88 year old master, who was practicing monkey, but teaching crane. This master was one of only two which Hisham found, and he has since died. Next, Hisam went to the monkey temple. "They had a Dao oracle, who meditates then goes crazy, gets possessed, and people ask him questions. I was watching and he called me in and asked what do I want what is my wish. I asked him some questions he couldn't know, things about Germany. And he gave me some answers which were correct. I don't really believe but my family does some Sufi things so I asked more about monkey fist.' Eventually, Hisham was given permission to meditate in the temple. After 12 days, something happened. I started to move in a strange way, I couldn't open my eyes, and I nearly collapsed." Then came the visions. "People told me they saw me and knew the Monkey King was in my body. I saw monkeys jumping around. I was very afraid. Afterwards, I created some new techniques which I learned from the visions and I made a new monkey form." "I believe this because it happened to me. If I tell westerners they don't believe. But I have a different background so it is different for me." During his search for a monkey master, Hisham found a lot of so called masters, but they weren't fighting. "In Germany there is a branch of Wing Chun which made their name fighting like the Gracies did. They challenged everyone and won. So, now there is no question. We all know Gracie jiu Jitsu is good. Some people say you shouldn't fight, it is against the code. But how do you know what level you are at if you don't fight?" "I want to fight in MMA and K-1 because there aren't many Chinese or traditional martial arts in there. I think in the beginning there were a few, but I don't know if they had thirty years of experience." "When you meet MMA guys, Thai boxers, and boxers, if you tell them you do TMA, they look at you and smile." A lot of the reality and professional fighting crowd think TMA is a useless joke. Ken Shamrock said in his interview, after his loss to Hois Gracie, that when he saw Gracie come in, wearing a ghi and a black belt, he just assumed that he didn't know how to fight. Ken guessed wrong that day. And this is what Hisham hopes to show to the world. "People look down on Chinese martial arts. They say Muay Thai are the hardest, boxers are the fastest…But what about traditional martial arts? They have 3000 years of development. How can they not be good? I think the big question is how you practice martial art. If you really practice six hours a day you can be good. If you chose the right way, and if you don't involve into so many techniques you can be good." "I was a student of TMA before. The master said, for that style, you need 36 forms. For that one, 72 forms. But after a while, I wondered why am I trapped into a lot of techniques if I can't use them. So, real martial arts only have a handful of forms five is enough, including a breathing form. And then the rest is application. Hisham has many reasons for wanting to fight on the world stage. "First, I want to prove if this thing I made up works or not. Secondly, for a boxer, 25 years old is peak, but for TMA 40 or 45 is the peak. I really admire old MMA masters Randy Coutour for example the best example for real martial artists. He is over 40, but it is not easy to defeat him. The young guys 25 to 30 are good, but how long can they keep this level?" Hisham tells about a Taiwanese master who still trains at age 88. "Chinese martial arts says, learn chi and ne gong, and you can stay healthier and stronger. Add the gong the working out and the skills and this is real kung fu." Hisham says, "Many masters are practicing martial art, but they forgot the martial part." He went on to say that many westerners are only practicing the external, the fighting, and have forgotten to add the rest. Hisham believes a complete Chinese TMA fighter can win. "I want to fight first in San Da Wang in Taiwan, again, and the Art of War, in China because I want to show the biggest audience in the world that traditional martial art can win. Today everyone is looking at MMA looking to the west rather than to CFhina and to traditional martial art. They say Gracie Jiu Jitsu is the best, but Randy Couture doesn't do BJJ he does traditional wrestling and he shows everyone there is something more." Hisham wants to do the same, to show the world that there is something beyond the mat. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:14:43 +0800 (SGT) From: Red Gonzales Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Carabao Wrestling To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kali Kapatid my friend,   Gaje did alot for the good of FMA.  That's correct.   But the damage he did to FMA outweighted his contributions.    When we talk of respect, the first question is does he respect the martial culture from where he came from?  Or more specifically, from the various systems from which he pieced together his PTK?    Yoiu may not know the truth but we do.    Respect is a two way street.  Those who give respect gets it in return.    The bastardization of the the Filipino culture, best exemplified in Gaje's GROWN carabao wrestling, is what makes Westerners laugh at Filipinos.  It's a great disservice to the Filipino people mind you my Kali Kapatid friend.   You are always free to believe what Gaje feeds you.  It is your right under the Bill of Rights.  But then, we know the real story and we, in the exercise of our own rights, would stand and refute any and all lies, distortions, and fabrications that will stand to destroy the integrity and beauty of the Filipino culture.    Red Gonzales   --- On Mon, 11/24/08, Kali Kapatid - J Montes wrote: From: Kali Kapatid - J Montes Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Carabao Wrestling To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Monday, 24 November, 2008, 9:01 AM Hi All, Although I claim to be no expert at anything much less Carabao wrestling, I can say with complete faith that there DOES exist Carabao wrestling in the PI according to the Garimot system, a system which includes Harimaw Buno. Suggested read: Harimaw Buno The Art of King Tiger Wrestling by Gat Puno Abundio Baet I am not a practitioner per se of Dumog, but of Dumpag, yes one aspect of Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje's family system. Why drag Tuhon's name into it though? One of the longest running and hardest working propagators of FMA's in the U.S. and the world today, show some respect. He is in his 70's and no one ever answered his challenge yet. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2600 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net New Email names for you! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/ph/ --__--__-- Message: 3 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:34:49 -0500 From: gatpuno@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Carabao/Tagalog Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hoy! (Hello), Just got back from St. Louis, MO. Seminar, and wow what a topic? Well, last Friday I read some of them already but from my busy work load, I intent to stay quiet for a change. But since I saw my name Pop! from the Carabao Wrestling, I can tell you that it does exist, but not in all FMA or not in the whole Philippines.  First let me make a short and sweet comment of the Carabao Wrestling seen in TV with the Gaje's propaganda. It's show that the wrestler is not skilled Carabao wrestler, why? You cannot wrestle Carabao while his or her four legged body dipped half way to the muddy of Rice fields. I would say only ignorant wrestler would do such a thing. If you want try to bring the Carabao in hard surface and then try to wrestle them, it's a lot easier to take down a Carabao on top of the Earth instead being part of the Earth when burried their legs on it, hope they learn something from it. Well, it's very easy to tell story and make more bigger story that it was, but always "Story Telling" is not the same if you are the story.  I heard and witness the Carabao Wrestling that's give a big controversy for FMA in general, but hey wait a minute now, hear this and let me share my experienced on Carabao Wrestling. First the Carabao Wrestling is one of the common Amusement part of Barrio Fiestas and Gathering among Rice Farmer and Lumberjacks (loggers) especially in Laguna. Leaving in a society that majority of the livelihood is Farming and Woodcarving. But we do that after Rice Harvest season, when the Rice field is dry and you can walk on top of the muddy place. There is two ways to wrestle them, you can position yourself to the Side of the Carabao held the two end of the horn and twist them sideway down till the Carabao is on the ground, Second position is in front of the Carabao hold both end of the horn and twist them side way till the Carabao is down on the ground. Now this is usually a competition of Gentleman, at the end of the day the Carabao is not harm in any way. Now when the Carabao is don't have the horn, then the only time we hold them to the ears, but you can hurt the animal this way, remember we need them to "Araro" (dig) all of our Rice Filed to start a new set of Rice Fields.  On my book "Harimaw Buno" it's also mention that the Mindoro native,s which is Mangyans, used to Wrestle with "Tamaraw" a native only in Mindoro Island a family of the Water Buffalo the  Pygmies Water Buffalo and its wild. Mangyans used to wrestle them and killed and butchered, till the Philippines Government on the 1970's forbids to killed such animal in Mindoro its close to extinction. In the wild This animal move in groups so the Natives used to rum and catch them and the only way to take them down is to wrestle them. Now you have it.  HOLD ON!  what is this Challenge of PT? I never heard of it, would you mind refresh my memories what Challenge you20are talking about? Is he challenge everyone, is he challenge certain group of FMA? is he open say this on his Seminar only, because I have not heard the such challenge. I have mentioned many time on my post here and in other Forum I openly Challenge, in fact many time I open this to all. If you are interested to test your skill with me or one of my student or even enter our tournament in the Philippines every July you are more than welcome. Win or loss we will be your friends no hurt feelings. Paete Arnis Federation had their Tournament in Paete every Nov. 3 or 4, and Centurion Original with Laguna Arnis Federation International held its Tournament every July 25 at 1 pm. Rules varies protection NONE, weapon Stick (1X28) un-padded. Magdalena Arnis Club held their Tournament every July 19 or 20, if anyone interested to learn more about it just simply e-mail me.  IN TAGALOG TOPIC:-  Yes Taga-Ilog (People by the River), Manuel Roxas made this the National Language during his Presidency 1950's. Tagalog is the shorten version of Taga Ilog simply say people leaving nearby river. Filipino Language is rich in history, and dialect changes by town not by grouping Islands. We are so lucky that before we as Filipino is can communicate to each other, now majority can becaused of "Tagalog" now known as Pilipino language. I dont care what Visayan and other speaking dialect think about it, it's the fact that the Tagalog is given the title to be the National language and they migh t not like it but it's the fact, live with it. Peace out to you all and Happy Thank Giving, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Hi All, Although I claim to be no expert at anything much less Carabao wrestling, I can say with complete faith that there DOES exist Carabao wrestling in the PI according to the Garimot system, a system which includes Harimaw Buno. Suggested read: Harimaw Buno The Art of King Tiger Wrestling by Gat Puno Abundio Baet I am not a practitioner per se of Dumog, but of Dumpag, yes one aspect of Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje's family system. Why drag Tuhon's name into it though? One of the longest running and hardest working propagators of FMA's in the U.S. and the world today, show some respect. He is in his 70's and no one ever answered his challenge yet. -- Pambansang awit - National Anthem inihaw na pusit - national pulutan when short on money for drinking treats June 12 - Philippine Independence Day signed Narra - National tree Luneta - National Plaza Malacanang - National Palace bakya- national wooden foot wear lapu-lapu - national fish tinikling - national dance PNB - National Bank PAL - National Air Lines University of the Philippines - National University Does Tagalog really mean taga-ilog?  Or if spelled the way it is Tagalog/Tagalug  would mean "people of the lowlands exposed to inundation".  Some samples below. Ilokos. alog, land inundated in ra iny season, pool in such land Pangasinan. alog, easily inundated low land Pampanga.alug, Tagalog. alog,  stem of words meaning "to wade". Geographically, is it an accurate description to the ethnically/original Tagalog regions? Jose Capitulo --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 06:42:35 -0800 (PST) From: Kristine Strasburger To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] the Filipino people Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >for you who are not filipinos, just delete, or have a good read, or a good laugh, hopefully >with us and not at us. >Happy Thanksgiving to all. >jay de leon   Jay, Thanks for contributing this to the list.  Even though each of us are individuals we are still deeply imprinted with our culture and our heritage, and those things affect who we are to a great degree even when we do not recognize it or acknowledge it.  It is fascinating to read a person's insight into who they are as a "people".  You are right, if we take some time to consider what might be behind a person's actions, we might be a lot slower to judge them from our own perspective...especially when they come from another culture. Kristine Strasburger Heartland School of Eskrima and Self Defense www.HeartlandEskrimaSchool.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest