Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 02:48:21 +0100 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 15 #313 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2600 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. WELCOME TO MEXICO (Jesus Othon) 2. RE: Re: inosanto people and authenticness of FMA (Danny Anderson) 3. Re: inosanto and upset people (maurice gatdula) 4. Re: Re: inosanto and upset people (iPat) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:21:11 -0500 To: mcardena@lexmark.com,sotis@knifefighting.com, petecannon2004@yahoo.com,RolandDantes@hotmail.com, ronbalicki@gmail.com,gutierrez@knifefighting.com, gurodennis@comjuka.com,guroedrover@yahoo.com, grandtuhon@hotmail.com,jesusrodriguez@worldblackbelt.com, eskrima@martialartsresource.net,almeriamex@hotmail.com From: "Jesus Othon" Subject: [Eskrima] WELCOME TO MEXICO Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net GRAND MASTERS: WELCOME TO MEXICO CITY IN JUN 19th, 20th, 21th, 2009. THE PLACE OF GOOD FRIENDS. AND THE GREAT PIRAMID OF TEOTIHUACAN, AND INMORTAL AZTEC EMPIRE PLACE OF GREAT WARRIORS SRITA CARDENAS AHORA EL MUNDIAL LO HAGO YO EN MEXICO, EN JUNIO 19, 20, 21, DE 2009 PUNONG GURO JESUS O. RODRIGUEZ. ------------------------------------------------------------ Hardwood Floors Buy Hardwood Floors Direct - Click Here. http://tagline.excite.com/fc/BK72PcZapjDBEdWiQKB17lMnuMHaxrIrr93rpRICtbxbiPG8 5lmE4c/ [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/vnd] --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Danny Anderson To: Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 22:38:54 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Re: inosanto people and authenticness of FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I agree with Crafty Dog Jay DeLeon re Guro Dan. One's history may be skewed by whomever he learned it from but you have to respect the knowledge, the skills AND the manners he displays towards other martial artists. Wheter in person or in print (I am much more familiar with him there) he doesn't talk smack. He trains. He learns. He teaches. End of story. Yours, Dan Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_12 2008 --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:06:44 -0800 (PST) From: maurice gatdula To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: inosanto and upset people Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net argument in the martial arts, is like argument in politics, they feel good to argue, but prove nothing. but they help you root stronger in the ground you are standing, on which is the higher level of the martial arts... not where people switch sides, but where they become so strong at what they do, the weaknesses in your style are no longer weakness.   for example, i am a judo man and i fight with a boxer, and another judo man fights with a boxer. it doesnt matter who won this fight (or both fights), but one judo man drops his judo 1/2 of the time to box, and the other judo man continued his judo until he knows all about using judo against boxing. which one in the end is the better judo master? the one who stops his judo training and becomes "okay" at boxing? or the one who learned to use his judo against all comers? your answers are different, and nobody is right, and nobody is wrong. like a nose, we all have our own answers. so should i cry like a woman because somebody doenst agrees with me? please.   the discussion i just heard is, stop your judo and become a boxer, and then you will understand boxing better. sounds good, but that is only one method of developing skill. this is like mccain, who would tell obama to spend time as a republican to become a better democrat. confusing, huh? well, this is how you get different styles, different religions, different branch even of the same style. there is a thousand roads to the next town take your pick, everybody has his own favorite.   i dont need to study with mr inosanto to understand what i read, i'm not stupid. an article that says, how to recognize authentic FMA means, just that, "authentic FMA". excuse me, but there is no one on this board qualified to say who's FMA is not authentic. dont matter how many tapes you produce, how many articles, websites, not even how many visits you been to the philippines. if a filipino comes to america, combined karate, judo and tkd with no arnis at all, calls his art "FMA" is this authentic FMA? well its already been done, called, "tae ju kenbo" taught at clark air force base, philippines, and is a solid style, the people can fight, and the tradition is very much a filipino tradition. so what will make it authentic FILIPINO martial arts? what techniques you use? what language you speak? what country you in? what kind of close you wear? do you wrestle a man or a cow? (lol)   so the martial artist needs more than tough body and tough talk, he should have tough skin. you should not be bothered to hear somebody question skill or effectiveness, every opponent you will ever face, thinks he can beat you. this is what the martial arts is all about, defend yourself, defend your reputation, and defend your teachers reputation. now if somebody (like me) said, i dont agree with you. or your teacher or teachers, this is not an insult, this is part of what you are training for. have you ever been searching for a teacher in the philippines? you know what they all say? i am the best fighter, i am the best style train in my place. bakbakan said it. yaw yan said it. ernesto presas said it. boggs lao said it. fernando ___ (kyo sho) said it. the comjuka guys say it. and they all said i can beat the others, there is nothing wrong or insulting in this culture for the martial artist to say it, this is the filipino way. like i said a few posts ago, if you dont feel you have the best art/skill/style dont be teaching.   so what i disagree with your teacher. guess what? the shotokan guy down the street thinks he has a better style than you too. we all think we have a better way, this aint david carridine kung fu or mr miyagi karate kid. in the FMA, we struggle to be the best guy in town, and no one is too scared to say it. i think thats great.   i got email from a member of this group, who says, why are filipinos bashed everybody. we dont. filipinos say what many of you think. the old generation did not hold hands, share techniques and show humbleness to each other. even in 1999, manong giron told me the other masters got techniques from him. the master who took me to him, vince tinga, told me his style has better empty hand. diony canete probably thinks he can whip the both of them. be thankful that you follow in this kind of tradition, a tradition of competition and trying to be stronger than the next one, this is how your style gets better, you size up the next guy and figure out a way to beat him.   did you ever hear a boxer say, his style is better than mine, he can beat me, or i am no better than anybody else? i dont think so, these are fighters and thats how the fighter is suppose to think.   dont matter if you repeat what your teacher thinks, or you speak your mind, not everybody is going to like what you got to say, or agree with you. this is why your teacher is giving you fighting skills, and why they have tournaments, and why there is a form. other than that, we would all be in the street duking it out to prove our point. if everybody just pat each other on the back and talk about how great you are and how great he is, and how great that guy is i wouldnt think this is a martial arts forum, it's a boy scout meeting.     --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:46:31 +0000 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: inosanto and upset people Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 5:06 AM, maurice gatdula wrote: > > i dont need to study with mr inosanto to understand what i read, i'm not > stupid. an article that says, how to recognize authentic FMA means, just that, > "authentic FMA". excuse me, but there is no one on this board qualified to say > who's FMA is not authentic. dont matter how many tapes you produce, how many > articles, websites, not even how many visits you been to the philippines. if a > filipino comes to america, combined karate, judo and tkd with no arnis at all, > calls his art "FMA" is this authentic FMA? well its already been done, called, > "tae ju kenbo" taught at clark air force base, philippines, and is a solid > style, the people can fight, and the tradition is very much a filipino > tradition. so what will make it authentic FILIPINO martial arts? what > techniques you use? what language you speak? what country you in? what kind of > close you wear? do you wrestle a man or a cow? (lol) > but it wasn't Inosanto that wrote the article, which i cant comment about as i don't have it. Yet you put the blame on him. Guro dan doesn't make these claims, never has and does more to promote other arts within the FMA than i see from others. yet despite others replying with these facts you ignore them. That's your prejudice, so be it. > > so what i disagree with your teacher. guess what? the shotokan guy down the > street thinks he has a better style than you too. we all think we have a > better way, this aint david carridine kung fu or mr miyagi karate kid. in the > FMA, we struggle to be the best guy in town, and no one is too scared to say > it. i think thats great. Not the issue at all, the issue is the misrepresentation of Guro inosanto. the fact that you may think your art is better than his is subjective and not in contention. As you say, to which i agree, you are not stupid. Therefore you can clearly see my point. > > dont matter if you repeat what your teacher thinks, or you speak your mind, > not everybody is going to like what you got to say, or agree with you. this is > why your teacher is giving you fighting skills, and why they have tournaments, > and why there is a form. other than that, we would all be in the street duking > it out to prove our point. if everybody just pat each other on the back and > talk about how great you are and how great he is, and how great that guy is i > wouldnt think this is a martial arts forum, it's a boy scout meeting. That you disagree with things is not the issue, its the misrepresentation of someone to further your aim. I'm telling you, politely and several others have told you politely, that you are talking bs on this matter. You bring a lot of wealth to this forum and healthy debate is great, but the continual attack on someone using misrepresentation may appeal to the zealots but only serves to show you in a bad light. Challenging the article by Vunak is not the issue, its the implication that Inosanto instigated it is wrong and a simple attendance at one seminar, a review of his DVDs or his printed material will show that is not what you claims he says. i will not participate in this anymore, if you cannot accept that your attacks on Guro Inosanto are at the best worthy of reconsideration, then you can have your 15 minutes of shame. if that is how you wish to conduct yourself then you have to live with it. When people look back in 100 years time they wont recall the ramblings of a nobody, they will look at those who create something that is good. Why not be the one remembered? Best regards, -- Pat Davies Aberdeen Martial Arts Group www.amag.org.uk http://patsfightagainsttcancer.blogspot.com/ Rehome a Boxer: www.boxerwelfarescotland.co.uk a mind that is entrenched in the authority of knowledge cannot possibly learn --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest